Are fancy brownish yellow diamond cheaper?

[MoonRiver]

Hi all,

I chance upon a GIA certified fancy brownish yellow pear diamond at an attractive price. (its about $15k) I love the way it looks but I was thinking if it is worth the price. Is it true that the hint of brown in the diamond heavily discounts its price? It this not really a worthy piece to consider? Please advice thanks.

Specs
Shape: Pear
Measurements: 12.36 x 8.21 x 5.02 mm
Carat Weight. : 3.57 carat

Color:
Origin: Natural
Grade: Fancy Brownish Yellow
Distribution: Even
Clarity Grade: VS2

PROPORTIONS
Depth: 61.2%
Table: 59%
Girdle: Slightly Thick to Very Thick, Faceted
Culet: None

FINISH
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: Faint


Link to diamond Gia report
https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=5131890147&weight=3.57

 

[kenny]

Yes, brown brings down the price.
More brown brings the price down more.
Here are the four GIA grades in order of increasing Brown, and decreasing price.

Brownish Yellow
Brown Yellow
Yellow Brown
Yellowish Brown

It is very difficult to determine whether an FCD price is low, fair, or high.
There are so many hues, then there are secondary hues that affect price.

Even if you did the impossible and found 10 FCDs of the exact same GIA color grade, weight and cut they'd vary in price from the same vendor because, unlike GIA's D-Z color grades, GIA's FCD color grades allow for large variations in appearance, and therefore price.

One GIA Brownish Yellow may be very close to Brown Yellow and therefore less expensive than another GIA Brownish Yellow that is close to just Yellow.
Yes, a diamond that GIA graded as "pure" yellow can have some brown in it but not enough for GIA to grade it Brownish Yellow.

Sorry.
If I were you I'd shop around and try to get a feel for comps.
But even then you have to see FCDs live to compare them to judge the color's attractiveness to your eyes.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Moon,
you've gotten some great advice from Kenny.

Personally I've found that some Brownish Yellow stones hide the brown much better than others.
This is generally indicated in the price.
As far as that, I'm a realist.
A 3.57 being offered for $15k seems to be a dead giveaway.
Generally speaking if it was a vibrant stone, with great life and color, I'd expect a higher price- even with brown.
Having said that, maybe you've found yourself a bargain.
DO you have any photos?

 

[MoonRiver]

I was initially attracted to the price for such a carat weight and clarity. But was wondering if the brown had affected the price. I wonder if in the long run,this diamond does not hold its value as well as the white diamonds in the market.

I certainly wish to own a 3.5ct diamond with a relatively good clarity at such price. But if it's not a desirable diamond, I might as well give it a pass... Please help... Thanks...

P/s: there are not many colored diamonds for me to compare, the jeweler just happened to receive only this only in his inventory, hence. I Cant really compare FCds side by side

 

[MoonRiver]

Hi Moon,
you've gotten some great advice from Kenny.

Personally I've found that some Brownish Yellow stones hide the brown much better than others.
This is generally indicated in the price.
As far as that, I'm a realist.
A 3.57 being offered for $15k seems to be a dead giveaway.
Generally speaking if it was a vibrant stone, with great life and color, I'd expect a higher price- even with brown.
Having said that, maybe you've found yourself a bargain.
DO you have any photos?

I have no experience in colored diamonds and i'm not very color sensitive, thus I could not make good judgement on the diamond general color. There aren't any fcd for me to compare, hence I was stuck. I viewed the diamond in the black casing, I didnlt request the jeweler to take out.

I'll get back tomorrow to take photos of it in the black casing and put it against a white paper to have a better judgement of the color.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Moon,
Black casing ( sounds like a black box) is not a good way to examine a diamond for color or brilliance.
I'd ask if they have some sort of holder that looks like prongs- or if they are skilled handling diamonds, in a tweezers.

In some cases a stone will look a lot better when it's removed from such a box.

I'd give this advice to anyone shopping- do not rush.
If the seller is using any type of technique to get you to buy now ( someone else is looking, etc) tell them to sell it to the other customer.
Where are you writing from? Maybe members can suggest local places where you can see more FCD's

 

[kenny]

FWIW, posting a photo will not help us evaluate the color.
I photograph FCDs and it is nearly-impossible to capture FCD color accurately, even with very fine equipment and expertise.

I sympathize with you about how difficult it is to shop and decide on colored diamonds.
I have bought 20 and returned 8.
Seeing them live, in person is the only way so deal with a trustworthy vendor with a good return policy.
All of my purchases have been from Leibish & Co. www.fancydiamonds.net and I am very very happy with them.

One other thing...even if that diamond is low in price because the color is not considered desirable by the market that doesn't mean you won't love it.
Color is personal and there is no right or wrong.

 

[SB621]

I was initially attracted to the price for such a carat weight and clarity. But was wondering if the brown had affected the price. I wonder if in the long run,this diamond does not hold its value as well as the white diamonds in the market.
I certainly wish to own a 3.5ct diamond with a relatively good clarity at such price. But if it's not a desirable diamond, I might as well give it a pass... Please help... Thanks...

P/s: there are not many colored diamonds for me to compare, the jeweler just happened to receive only this only in his inventory, hence. I Cant really compare FCds side by side

I'm concerned about this statement. Unless you plan on selling it later on why should this matter? I personally buy FCD or gemstones if I like the color. If I don't then it doesn't really matter to me what the GIA report says or not.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Very good point about photos- even more about color preference
Even if you had a series of photos, and a video that gave a pretty good idea of the color- the only thing anyone can offer is their opinion of it.
I can tell you from experience that opinions on FCD's are incredibly diverse.
What some people love, others hate.

Please don't take my comment about pressure to mean "don't buy the diamond"
If you love it, and are comfortable with the seller, it might be a wonderful stone for you.
Without a doubt it's very inexpensive for a stone it's size.

ETA- good point sarahbear- in terms of "return on investment" diamonds are not a financial instrument.
I will say that someone who owns a 3.5ct and has $15k invested only has $15k to loose. Which is a lot less than many other 3.5ct stones on the market

 

[MoonRiver]

I've seen the diamond again using the tweezers. It's so hard to take pictures especially with an iphone. The yellow color definitely dominates the brown, the brown doesnt really show. The pear doesnot have the bow tie effect either. Overall it's a pretty diamond that sparkles. I like how it looks but I do have some concerns and hope the experts can chime in...

1) I'm not going to sell this diamond for sure but I worry that such diamond do not hold value well and in future, such a diamond with similar spec would cost less than 15k I've paid. Question is will the price of such brownish yellow diamond drop?

2) I really hope to own a 3.5 CT above diamond, are there any chance of getting any of such white diamond at 15k? The lowest color I can go is M... I ran a search, seems like most diamonds are above 20k even for M.

3) this brownish yellow diamond is cheaper than most white diamond, even an M color, are colored diamonds like that less desirable or less valuable than white diamonds?

I have limited knowledge on colored diamonds, thank you for your advices and patience.

 

[SB621]

I've seen the diamond again using the tweezers. It's so hard to take pictures especially with an iphone. The yellow color definitely dominates the brown, the brown doesnt really show. The pear doesnot have the bow tie effect either. Overall it's a pretty diamond that sparkles. I like how it looks but I do have some concerns and hope the experts can chime in...

1) I'm not going to sell this diamond for sure but I worry that such diamond do not hold value well and in future, such a diamond with similar spec would cost less than 15k I've paid. Question is will the price of such brownish yellow diamond drop?

2) I really hope to own a 3.5 CT above diamond, are there any chance of getting any of such white diamond at 15k? The lowest color I can go is M... I ran a search, seems like most diamonds are above 20k even for M.

3) this brownish yellow diamond is cheaper than most white diamond, even an M color, are colored diamonds like that less desirable or less valuable than white diamonds?

I have limited knowledge on colored diamonds, thank you for your advices and patience.

I'm not an expert, but I will say that alot of your questions will vary by personal taste. Many people are color sensative and would not own an M diamond, but would love a fancy brown/yellow diamond. Personally if I found something that large and I liked it I would have already purchased it by now.

3.5ct pricing for a non FDC will vary pending on color, clarity and cut. If you don't mind buying off the secondary market you might/ probably would find something but you would have to troll ebay and other second hand marketplaces. They would be few and far between. Plus as you mentioned you would have to go very low in color and clarity. Cut is usually something I don't negotiate on since if it looks like liquid spit -it won't matter how large it is.

Sorry but I still don't see why you are concerned about value and pricing of a diamond you don't plan on selling Perhaps I'm missing something here. I'm sure the experts can say more but generally diamonds don't go down in price, they actually go up a little. However, there resale value will always be less then what you paid unless you have something out of the norm. There is a great article you can look up which talks about the pros and cons of investing in diamonds on PS written by one of the experts. I would link to it but the search function is not working for me (SOOOOOO beyond frustrating).

So personally for me if I found a 3.5ct pair for 15k AND I liked the color I would scoop it up in a heartbeat. In fact if you don't buy it I'm extremely tempted to ask where it is and call. Another PSer on her (Lemony) has a gorgeous 5ct pear that she bought off ebay for 19k I believe. However, it is a light yellow. I dont remember if it is actually a FLY or just really low in the color like a Q-R, but since I have seen it I have coveted a yellow pear in a large size.

 

[ChrisES]

Don't buy diamonds as in investment. As consumer luxury goods they are neither inherently useful (like oil or bread) nor so likely as to be borderline guaranteed to increase in value with inflation (like gold, which aside from the current incredible price bubble tends to be worth the same amount in oil or bread). The future value of your diamond(s) will increase if the market-driven demand continues to outpace the ever-increasing supply (they last a long time you know) - after the markdown for resale, as Sarahbear mentioned - and will decrease if it does not. Seeing as the "value" of a diamond is in the eye of the beholder, I would look for a diamond that has value to you, and then you won't have to worry about future variations in price, because you'll already have a stone you love.

Here's the page she mentioned: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-investing
(Pro tip: I used google to find it: "pricescope investing in diamonds" without quotes)

 

[MoonRiver]

I definitely love the diamond and not want to sell it. But it's a psychological thing, where it's good to know that the diamond was bought with an excellent price and in few years down, this price can never happen again. Hence I would like to know if the prices of FCD climbs up or fluctuate. I will feel sad to know that in future there will b a similar one like mine but going at a lower price.

15k is not at very small amount to shell out especially for something that has no resale value. This 15k out will be really just to satisfy my love for diamonds. In fact with 15k I think I could get a Rolex sports model which can retain its value or a secondhand Hermes...so once this 15k is out its never gonna come back...but I would not want to miss the chance of a good bargain. (is this really a good deal at such a price?)

Sarahbear I think u brought up a good point on whether 15k could get me a white diamond of such size. I do have to compromise in a lot of areas in terms of color and clarity. The cut for white diamonds r very important. But for FCD, the color supersedes the cut, am I right to say?

(this is a nice pear that has no bow tie effect, is it because of the color or the size of the diamond? I notice the Bowie is prominent in smaller diamonds)

 

[ChrisES]

In the broadest terms, diamond prices have tended to go up so it seems likely that the average price for a typical stone will go up as well. If you're worried about feeling like you spent your money well I'd focus on the quality of the specific stone and its present price relative to comparables, and if those are favorable than yes, the value will increase even if you can't resell it yourself for full value.

However, I will defer to others for FCD as I have mostly shopped colorless RBs.

The fixation of future value on its own terms sidetracked me into one of my favorite subjects. Insofar as the modern diamond market is consumer-driven and diamonds are not rare, the concept of future value makes me jittery. The market has been very robust historically and I see no particular reason why it should cease to be - but at the same time if it someday collapses I will shake my head, wonder why it took so long, and perfectly happily hold onto the diamonds I already own, because they are darn pretty and have lots of sentimental value.

 

[SB621]

For the most part in FCDs and CSs color will supersede cut, but once again that is personal opinion

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I wouldn't buy a diamond of ANY color unless the cut was very good at least, excellent for white diamonds.

We could go into a depression in the next 5 years and diamonds could be worth half as much. You need to look at your finances and be sure your other investments and emergency funds are in place. Diamonds are luxuries and you should buy because you absolutely love a stone and not because it is big at a good price. If you do that, you will certainly be sorry at some point. I buy the pieces I buy now with the idea that they will be heirlooms for my grandchildren. I do not give a single thought to how much they will be worth on 10-20-30 years.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi all,

I chance upon a GIA certified fancy brownish yellow pear diamond at an attractive price. (its about $15k) I love the way it looks but I was thinking if it is worth the price. Is it true that the hint of brown in the diamond heavily discounts its price? It this not really a worthy piece to consider? Please advice thanks.

almost impossible to guess the price on this kind of diamond...

 

[Rockdiamond]

Moon-I like t think of t like this- diamonds are not a good invenstment- but my mother had a saying- good things are for bad times.
I would expect a seller that knows what they are doing are not selling a $30k diamond for $15k.
But remember - you only have $15k to recover.
The diamond is not going to be worth nothing if you need to sell.
If you really needed the money maybe it might only bring $3-$4k on a distress sale- that's still a chunk of change.

About the cut- there are no "standards" for pear shape diamonds, so there's no way to say what the "cut grade" of this pear shape is.
This goes for colorless, as well as FCD's
Some Pears are far more attractive, and better cut than others- just that there's no standardized cut grading system.

 

[Dancing Fire]

..this is one of those "wonky" diamonds...

 

[diamonds-are-friends]

if you have a trustworthy gem appraiser in you area, would that be a good idea to let him/her take a look at the diamond before committing if you need some idea on worth to give you a piece of mind? For example, it could be a viable option if the diamond you are buying has good return policies. It gives you a chance to look at the diamond in person too.

 

[MoonRiver]

Hi all, here's a picture of it in a white background, hard to tell the color but it's yellow. There's no bow tue effect. Well I'm still deciding... What do u all think?

Thanks

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

You must have this stone checked out by a very good appraiser. The ladies on here can recommend some. This appears too good to be true. If the stone is not cracked, chipped or has nothing of mater4ial defects, you are looking at the bargain of a lifetime,IMO.
I am going to be as bold a Sarah in stating if you are not interested in the stone, please tell us where it is.

Diamonds have normally gone up. Just last week, DeBeers stated they had withheld supplies of diamonds from the market to boast diamond prices last year. They watch their diamond prices carefully.

You may have a real opportunity here. Neal Beatty is an appraiser I would recommend sending the stone to. it will cost you some money, but you will know what you are getting. If not Sarah and I are waiting.


Annette

 

[MoonRiver]

I talked to the jeweler, their return policy is not cash back but in store credits... Hence I do not want to make the wrong move and end up having 15k store credits to crack my mind on what to get...

If I want to get it appraised I would have to purchase the diamond. I do not know why at such a price, hence I wanted to know from experts if the price is due to the word brownish on the cert? Or is it because white diamonds are more sought after, making yellow diamonds less desirable?

I certainty would love to know I purchased something valuable and sought after at a neat price..any inputs?

I do hope to have a bigger diamond at an attractive price but wonder if there will b better deal next time... Or ending up regretting because i miss the boat..Anyone can share your experience on such a situation please?

 

[kenny]

I talked to the jeweler, their return policy is not cash back but in store credits... Hence I do not want to make the wrong move and end up having 15k store credits to crack my mind on what to get...

If I want to get it appraised I would have to purchase the diamond. I do not know why at such a price, hence I wanted to know from experts if the price is due to the word brownish on the cert? Or is it because white diamonds are more sought after, making yellow diamonds less desirable?

I certainty would love to know I purchased something valuable and sought after at a neat price..any inputs?

I do hope to have a bigger diamond at an attractive price but wonder if there will b better deal next time... Or ending up regretting because i miss the boat..Anyone can share your experience on such a situation please?

I'm afraid you want the FCD-impossible, a sure thing that satisfies both sides of the brain.

There are a handful of people on the planet who can tell you if the price is "good", but they'd have to see the diamond live.
I'm not one of them but I'll opine that you are not getting the steal of a lifetime and yes something you like better may come along.
Nobody wants to get ripped off, especially me, but as an FCD collector I have forced myself to accept some degree of value-ambiguity of what I'm buying.
One protection I depend on is I'll only buy a diamond with a price that was published on the Internet, and from a major seller of FCDs.
Such sellers price diamonds VERY carefully, compared to those who only reveal the price in private after sizing up the sophistication of the buyer.
FCDs are so rare and specialized that I'd never buy one from a local B&M jeweler.
I want to buy from a company that specializes in FCDs for their selection and experience.

Whether an FCD is Red or Brown, it costs what it costs.
If you like it for the price then buy it.
Don't like it for the price? Then don't buy it.
White diamond value verification is comparatively easy since comps are widely available and the D-Z scale is exponentially simpler than this:



Yes, of course brown lowers the value.
You'll pay less for it, but you'll get less for it.
Nobody can predict if a Brownish Yellow will appreciate more or less than another color.

While you cannot judge color by pics (and the white balance is WAY off on that pic) at least the diamond appears to not scream brown.
Compared to the general public, GIA can be quite cruel and unforgiving about brown.
If you show that diamond to 100 people on the street and ask what color they see I'll bet the vast majority will say yellow, and nobody will say Brownish yellow.

Even with a GIA report I would not buy an FCD without a no-questions-asked money-back guarantee that is long enough to send it out.
If you do buy it you're stuck with it.
If an after-purchase appraisal leaves you disappointed and you only get is store credit the seller will have you over a barrel.
I would not like my $15,000 to be in that situation.
Diamond sellers are not stupid; they know the value of what they are selling.
They're not going to let a diamond go for less than it's worth ... but they will let it go for more.

Overall, I'd pass, or make an offer that would appease my value-concern.

That said, if YOU like the color/size/price/cut then buy it, but please forget about future value or whether the price is right.
It's a big diamond for $15K, but it has some brown.

 

[satbeachbill]

That stone is gorgeous. I love the color. I'd sure be tempted!

 

[kenny]

FWIW, I attempted a little color correction, assuming the surface under the diamond is white and ignoring the color outside the box.
Not an easy image to white balance since there is more than one light source, as evidenced by the pinkish area at the top or the right image.
I used the round circular white reflection of the light under the diamond as the reference.
The diamond was not singled out for color change, rather the entire image was moved in a direction that made what we know to be white, to look more white and less bluish green.

The color-corrected image is on the right.

 

[MoonRiver]

Thanks Kenny for the input, they are very very valuable advice from a seasoned buyer of FCD. I have to agree that this jeweler is definitely not a FCD specialized seller and if I pull the trigger I've locked in my 15k with them. I definitely do not want to make a rash decision. Like I said, my top priority is hoping to purchase a big stone at a price without breaking the bank, to add on to my collection and to satisfy my dream of owning one diamond big enough.

My fingers are small and the most I can go is 4ct maximum. (I wear a size 2.75) anything bigger will not be wearable and looks too big on me. Hence price and carat is priority but I'm not knowledgable enough and do have some misconceptions of FCD.

Tomorrow I need to make a decision and tell the jeweler if I want to purchase the stone... Well I can walk away and not lose 15k but I do not know if I'll lose the chance of of getting this kind of deal in near future.

It's hard to get FCD in my place and prices of white diamonds like pricescope prices here are near impossible...

 

[Niel]

I quite like the color and i think i would do it if i liked the color and had the money i think the pear shape is nice. If you like it i say go for it

 

[kenny]

but I do not know if I'll lose the chance of of getting this kind of deal in near future.

"This kind of deal"?
There is very little chance that this, or any diamond, is a "deal".
In fact, seeking a deal is a great way to get taken. (Do a search here on EGL.)
The diamond market is teeming with buyers looking for what's too good to be true and sellers who prey on them.

I don't think "deals" will be found in retail jewelry stores.
A very patient and knowledgeable buyer might find a deal in the used market.

I've resigned myself that every diamond is worth what I paid for it, or less, but never more.

 

[MoonRiver]

Hmmm so u mean I can get a diamond 3.5 plus carat for less than 15k? Or what u meant is if it is the diamond I love, the price I paid for is worth it; and it's hard to determine what is a 'deal'

I.e. if I bought the diamond because of its price, and not like it... It's definitely not a deal and in this case, I'll have "paid" for more??

Pardon my slow mind

Well I'm not a skilled diamond searcher. I've not tried online purchases, I've yet to each the secondhand market. Any reccommendation?