Are diamonds priced fairly?

[proto]

So I was having a perusal of diamonds (as you do, doesnt everyone?)

Came across this gem below

specs look nice, right?

Carat Weight: 0.90
Cut: Excellent
Color:E
Clarity: VS2
Price($): 5703.26
Lab Name: GIA
Depth: 60.30
Table: 60.00
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: M
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Ratio: 0.00
Measurements: 6.26x6.31x3.79

price seems about right. Not amazing, not too bad.

Have a look at the actual picture and then I throw up in my mouth a little bit.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4226747-0.90-carat-Round-diamond-E-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

I dont really understand it, unless this is one of those examples of where meet point symmetry =/= optical symmetry.

Then there is Diamond number 2, although granted, this one has SBF which may not be everyone's cup of tea.

Carat Weight:0.91
Cut:Excellent
Color:E
Clarity:VS2
Price($):5040.87
Lab Name:GIA
Depth:60.90
Table:57.00
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girdle:M
Culet:None
Fluorescence:Strong
Ratio:0.00
Measurements:6.24x6.28x3.81

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4912107-0.91-carat-Round-diamond-E-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

Diamond number 3

Carat Weight:0.90
Cut:Excellent
Color:E
Clarity:VS2
Price($):5991.85
Lab Name:GIA
Depth:61.00
Table:60.00
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girdle:M-STK
Culet:None
Fluorescence:None
Ratio:0.00
Measurements:6.19x6.22x3.79

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5041177-0.90-carat-Round-diamond-E-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

Conclusion?

I dont believe that you "get what you pay for in diamonds, and there are no bargains to be had".

I strongly feel that there are a huge number of suboptimal stones at the same pricepoint as the really good ones.

Am I missing something here or is this really the state of the market or are the majority of consumers simply so blind that vendors can price indiscriminately because they will still sell no matter what. If this is the case, why dont they simply price the nicer looking stones slightly higher so that the discerning consumer might choose to pay a slightly higher price?

 

[metatrix]

I have begun to learn that a lot of jewellers and even diamond dealers don't know shit about diamonds. They buy and sell diamonds based on the general grade on the cert alone. The experienced ones buy diamonds based on sight (which is ok provided they have a good eye). Most know very little about proportions and care even less. After all, most of their customers don't know the difference between a good GIA excellent and a bad GIA excellent, so why should the jeweller or dealer care how well the stone actually performs as long as it says 'excellent' on the cert?

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Proto,

I agree with you that the pricing seems odd on the face of it. Diamond 2 (despite the fluorescence) certainly appears to be a better performer, so why the price difference?

As you know B2C, like many internet retailers, provides diamonds from multiple suppliers located all over the world. Their pricing structures vary, and due to the sheer volume, and the complexity of the human interactions this can lead to both 'deals' and 'oddities' among those many thousands of listings.

In that sense: Where you asked if the uneducated consumer is getting a bad deal, maybe the other side of the coin is that there are great deals to be had by the truly educated consumer if they look far enough.

Your observation is good for me to collect, as one aspect of the presentation I hope we can sharpen here is to improve filtering in terms of QC (read also cut-parameters) and associated premium.

 

[Cricketcat]

Proto,
I purchased my diamond a few years ago from Jared. I searched their on-line database of diamonds (mostly AGS and GIA). At the time, I didn't know Pricescope existed, so my knowledge was extremely limited as to what I was looking for in a diamond. Basically, I knew I wanted GIA XXX or AGS OOO, but that was pretty much it. If I was looking at a certain carat weight, a certain color, ideal cut, whatever diamonds came up at a certain weight, certain color, ideal cut were all the same price, regardless of individual diamond specs. Some were advertised as having perfect hearts and arrows patterns in the ideal description (and I later found some of these actually listed as hearts and arrows diamonds on a Pricescope vendors site), but on Jared's website, the price was the same for the perfect hearts and arrows diamonds and any other "ideal" cut. There was no additional premium for their perfect hearts and arrows pattern diamonds.

 

[teobdl]

DiamondHawk has a great perspective.

As you know B2C, like many internet retailers, provides diamonds from multiple suppliers located all over the world. Their pricing structures vary, and due to the sheer volume, and the complexity of the human interactions this can lead to both 'deals' and 'oddities' among those many thousands of listings.

In that sense: Where you asked if the uneducated consumer is getting a bad deal, maybe the other side of the coin is that there are great deals to be had by the truly educated consumer if they look far enough.

I think that the notion that "you get what you pay for" is true to a point--you will not buy a newly graded, beautifully cut 1 ct D IF for $4,000. But within every price point, it is incumbent on the consumer to educate themselves about how to maximize their budget without paying for anything extra. The key is to know what "extras" are not necessary and to not pay for them: e.g. high clarity, super high color, true H&A vs near H&A etc, VG vs Ex polish. That is where you will maximize your budget, and once you've paired down the list, scrutinize the seemingly anomalously cheaper diamonds to make sure you're not unnecessarily sacrificing beauty (cut).

 

[pyramid]

Probably cheaper because:

Diamond 1 = 60% Table

Diamond 2 = Strong fluorescence

Diamond 3 + 60% Table


E color ideal cut would be more expensive.

 

[proto]

Probably cheaper because:

Diamond 1 = 60% Table

Diamond 2 = Strong fluorescence

Diamond 3 + 60% Table


E color ideal cut would be more expensive.

Did you compare the pictures?

 

[OoohShiny]

No, diamonds aren't priced fairly.

It's not fair I can't afford a 2ct D IF Octavia Asscher

 

[teobdl]

Probably cheaper because:

Diamond 1 = 60% Table

Diamond 2 = Strong fluorescence

Diamond 3 + 60% Table


E color ideal cut would be more expensive.

Did you compare the pictures?

As Diamond Hawk (from B2C) suggested, much more goes into the pricing structure than the 4 C's, particularly for drop shippers like B2C. Parsing out differences in a sample of 3 without at least cursory knowledge of the other variables that a specific vendor uses is a fruitless endeavor.

 

[metatrix]

DiamondHawk has a great perspective.

I think that the notion that "you get what you pay for" is true to a point--you will not buy a newly graded, beautifully cut 1 ct D IF for $4,000. But within every price point, it is incumbent on the consumer to educate themselves about how to maximize their budget without paying for anything extra. The key is to know what "extras" are not necessary and to not pay for them: e.g. high clarity, super high color, true H&A vs near H&A etc, VG vs Ex polish. That is where you will maximize your budget, and once you've paired down the list, scrutinize the seemingly anomalously cheaper diamonds to make sure you're not unnecessarily sacrificing beauty (cut).

Yep, Colour especially - some people are more colour sensitive than others. You will never know how low of a colour you can get away with unless you (and the wearer) go look at different colour stones mounted and side by side in neutral diffuse lighting. Before I did this, I thought I would go no lower than an H. Then I realized I could not tell the difference, face up, between even a G and a J. So I went with a nice looking J, and saved thousands of dollars. You can also go with a low colour stone with strong fluorescence, but you need to take that stone outside and view it in direct sunlight to make sure it does not go hazy on you.

Best way to save money, period, is to take your scale, calipers, lighted 10x triplet loupe, ideal scope, and ASET to an estate sale or other private sale and buy an uncertified stone. The loupe should be enough to determine clarity and fluorescence. The ideal scope and ASET should be more than enough to ensure good cut. The scale and calipers will tell you carat weight and girdle thickness/spread. The hardest part is trying to judge the colour, but as long as it is a good price and doesn't look yellow to you, who cares? The only other thing is making sure the stone has not been laser drilled or filled -- anyone know if you can tell this via loupe and/or ASET scope?

Best way to save money on a new stone, IMO, is to search for a truly eye clean SI2. They are hard to find, and it's typically not worth the trouble to do this with online vendors. But if there is a local jeweller who has very competitive prices and can bring in multiple SI2s for you to see, then that is the best way to maximize your budget without buying a pre-owned stone.

The other way to save money is to try to find that needle-in-a-haystack super ideal hearts and arrows diamond that is being sold as simply any other regular GIA excellent. The easiest way to buy a top of the line performer is to buy a branded diamond or a diamond from a vendor who pre-screens their diamonds. But you will be paying a premium for that sorting process. Sort through the riff raff yourself and you can get a fantastic deal.

Finally, you can always buy a large, very poorly cut stone and pay around $250 to have it cut to ideal proportions. There are risks with this method, so make sure you go with a good cutter, and get the stone dirt cheap (uncerted stone at an estate sale, private sale, etc).

 

[pyramid]

No. I was not writing about the 'fair' bit as this is subjective to what each person wants to buy or can buy. I was just comparing that a 1 carat E VS1 H&A diamond is about $13,000 and that the color E is a lot of that cost. Therefore I thought the cut as graded being off would make a big decrease in the price.

Probably cheaper because:

Diamond 1 = 60% Table

Diamond 2 = Strong fluorescence

Diamond 3 + 60% Table


E color ideal cut would be more expensive.

Did you compare the pictures?