Appraisor wants my GIA info?

[nowhereman17]

Hey everyone,

I''m taking my ring in for an appraisal to Harold Weinstein here in Toronto and when I called the receptionist asked if I had the certification specs on the diamond. I said yes, it''s been GIA certified and she asked me to bring in the certification to "cross reference" to it.

Now to me this seems a little odd cause I want them to give me their opinion of what the diamond is and I will cross ref it. I don''t want to muddy their interpretations of the ring.

So I''m thinking I just show up "forgetting" to bring the certification.

What do you guys think? Or is it a common practice for appraisors to "cross ref" the exisiting certification?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[wonka27]

To me, I would want the appraiser to do his/her job and come up with the grades themselves. Once done, comparison can be done. I'm sure some of the appraisers on here will chime in with their opinions, but I have to believe they would feel the same way. It is what they are being paid to do.

 

[ame]

Tht sounds odd to me, almost like they will just copy what is on that cert and not actually do anything... if you have an engraved number on the girdle of the stone you should not need to bring anything. He could probably pull it up from that if he really actually needed it.

 

[kevinng]

The appraiser I used asked me to bring the certificate. However, he did not want to look at it until the the end of the appraisal. The results were pretty close. He gave his opinion, as well as his opinion of what the certificate would look like. He was spot on.

 

[denverappraiser]

nowhereman17,

It depends on what questions you are asking the appraiser. In most cases, it is in your best interest to have the report with you at the time of the appraisal.

The final step of the appraisal process involves writing a report that contains an accurate description of your stone. If you have a lab report, the presence of this report is an important part of that description. You paid extra for this report and you would feel cheated if the insurance company were to replace it with another one where a similar report was not included. You bought a GIA graded stone, they should replace with a GIA grades stone. This means that it’s important to include this reference in their final report.

The root of your question is that clients often want to know if the appraisers independent grading of the stone will match what the lab said. This serves as a verification that there is no collusion going on between the jeweler and the appraiser as well as a crosscheck on the work of the lab and some confirmation that the appraiser knows what they are doing. These are all valid concerns. The easiest way to address this is to have the appraiser grade the stone prior to looking at the report.

Clients also usually want the appraiser to determine if the stone that they are examining is the same one that is described on the report. This is true whether or not the appraiser agrees with the reports conclusions. Obviously, this is not possible without looking at the report. This is especially relevant if the appraiser disagrees with the report because it goes directly to the question of WHY they disagree. Gemologists regularly debate grading issues but different grading opinions is simply not the same situation as concerns about a counterfeit or unrelated report. A good appraiser will help you through the process of deciding how to resolve a disagreement in the grading results should one arise. This is part of what you're paying them for.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[norman_in_L.A.]

nowhereman17:

We also ask our customers to bring with them to the appointment any certificates or previous appraisals done on the item. We ask the customer to do this for several reasons. 1) To make sure that we can match the diamond to the certificate, if the diamond was laserscribed the number will match the cert. If the diamond is not laserscribed we can match the plotting diagram, or some other aspect of the certificate to the diamond. Sometimes, the store or website will give out the wrong cert by mistake. This first examination will tell us that. 2) The customer may think that they have a “Diamond Grading Report or Certificate” but actually they have been given something less than that, possibly a sales document from the seller. 3) We want to go over these documents with you the customer, so that we are both working off of the same page. As an example, if the documents are old, or not detailed enough to compare. But if you have a cert from a reputable lab and you would like us to do our work with out seeing it, that’s ok. As long as we can review it with you after our examination is complete. We would like to use the measurements from the certificate if possible, because if those measurements where taken by Sarin then they will be more accurate than by millimeter gauge.

Lets look at what your about to do. You will be taking in a ring (from your post it sounds like a solitaire ring) to have an appraisal done.

The diamond in that ring was measured loose in the laboratory by a non contact optical measuring device, probably a Sarin. It was then clarity graded, color graded, plotted, and finaled by several (depending on the lab, two to four) gemologists, under precise laboratory & lighting conditions.

The appraiser that you will be seeing will have to use a caliber, millimeter gauge, or table gauge to take the measurements of the diamond because it is mounted. The measurements taken with the caliber or the table gauge will not match the certificate; they will not be as precise as the Sarin results. This fact can become confusing to the customer without explanation. Next the appraiser will clarity grade & color grade the diamond in the mounting, not loose as in the laboratory example above. This means that the clarity grade & color grade will be based on a mounted diamond not a loose diamond. The appraiser’s clarity grade & color grade may differ from the cert. Finally he or she will plot the diamond. The diamond is mounted, due to the prongs, or bezel, the appraiser will not be able to see 100% of the diamond. This means that the appraisers plotting diagram & the labs plotting diagram may be slightly different.

All of this can lead to confusion and to concern that the appraiser could not match the cert exactly. When in reality we appraise & grade diamonds and gemstones mounted all day every day. Having the certificate to review either in advance or at the end of the examination will help both you and the appraiser, understand any differences that come up.

Let me know what you think!

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]lace>Norman/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]lace>

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Hi Dave,

You have been getting some sound advice! When I appraise diamonds I ask if any reports are involved. Personally, I enjoy grading and then comparing the results with any reports. You need this done to best insure accuracy of the document. The grading of mounted diamods is restricted by the setting, and often gives close, but not the same results as when properly graded loose. While some labs are better than others,there is not any lab that does not make errors, including GIA. Just recently I saw a diamond with a GIA GTL report stating the stone was laser inscribed by GIA - it was not! They did correct it quickly. Another time a reputable lab listed a weak fluorescence, when it was strong. Since the goal is to provide the best protection possible for insurance, at least have the report available for comparison, and possible inclusion with the independent insurance appraisal.

Rick

 

[nowhereman17]

Thanks for the help guys, that's awesome, and Norman you really cleared up what they will be doing and why they might want the certification for the diamond. It's alleviated my concerns.

Thanks as well to Neil and the rest of the gang for the opinions, it has really helped my to understand the process.

Dave