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Appraisal Question
- Thread starter kenny
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Ask the appraiser. Their phone number should be listed in the appraisal report. Perhaps they are describing a marketplace that is considerably different from the one where you shopped. The market they are describing should be discussed in the ''fine print'' of the report.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
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This was Bluenile.
The appraisal was done by a GIA certified gemologist who I assume is an employee of BN.
The appraisal was printed on paper with a Bluenile letterhead and was included with the shipment of the stone.
It had my name printed on it, a date of a couple of days ago.
I ordered the diamond on Monday.
I did not request an appraisal.
I didn't know they included one.
It must be their standard prodedure.
They mounted it and shipped it on Friday, four days later.
Did diamond prices shoot up 70% last week?
I can understand if you sent the same stone to 10 appraisers you will get 10 slightly different numbers.
But I doubt they will vary by 70%.
Also this appraisal is from the very company that just sold the stone on the same transaction that the appraisal was ordered for, no time elapsed, only one party was involved.
They know what they just sold it for.
Is this some marketing thing to make the customer think he got a great deal?
Am I supposed to think that this company just sold me a diamond for a fraction of its worth, or that they made a fortunate typo on the price I paid?
The shippment included a brochure from Chubb.
If I were Chub I would see right through this inflated appraisal.
I'm beginning to suspect I am paying attention to an ethical issue that everyone just turns their heads from.
How can this be?
The appraisal was done by a GIA certified gemologist who I assume is an employee of BN.
The appraisal was printed on paper with a Bluenile letterhead and was included with the shipment of the stone.
It had my name printed on it, a date of a couple of days ago.
I ordered the diamond on Monday.
I did not request an appraisal.
I didn't know they included one.
It must be their standard prodedure.
They mounted it and shipped it on Friday, four days later.
Did diamond prices shoot up 70% last week?
I can understand if you sent the same stone to 10 appraisers you will get 10 slightly different numbers.
But I doubt they will vary by 70%.
Also this appraisal is from the very company that just sold the stone on the same transaction that the appraisal was ordered for, no time elapsed, only one party was involved.
They know what they just sold it for.
Is this some marketing thing to make the customer think he got a great deal?
Am I supposed to think that this company just sold me a diamond for a fraction of its worth, or that they made a fortunate typo on the price I paid?
The shippment included a brochure from Chubb.
If I were Chub I would see right through this inflated appraisal.
I'm beginning to suspect I am paying attention to an ethical issue that everyone just turns their heads from.
How can this be?
niceice
Brilliant_Rock
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Diamond prices didn''t increase 70% last week... Thankfully.
Different vendors have different opinions about what a diamond should be appraised for. In a traditional retail environment it is possible for a diamond to be purchased by a jeweler for $5K and be sold over the retail counter for $10K while most of the internet vendors are working on a few percent instead of a 100% mark-up. Thus it is not necessarily "out there" for a diamond purchased online to be appraised for 70% more than you purchased it for, but that does not necessarily mean that you should insure the item based upon that appraisal because you are going to pay a higher premium based on that amount and are not likely to replace the diamond through a traditional brick and mortar environment. Consult a Graduate Gemologist in your vicinity to determine the fair market value of the item in your region and insure the item based on that evaluation.
Different vendors have different opinions about what a diamond should be appraised for. In a traditional retail environment it is possible for a diamond to be purchased by a jeweler for $5K and be sold over the retail counter for $10K while most of the internet vendors are working on a few percent instead of a 100% mark-up. Thus it is not necessarily "out there" for a diamond purchased online to be appraised for 70% more than you purchased it for, but that does not necessarily mean that you should insure the item based upon that appraisal because you are going to pay a higher premium based on that amount and are not likely to replace the diamond through a traditional brick and mortar environment. Consult a Graduate Gemologist in your vicinity to determine the fair market value of the item in your region and insure the item based on that evaluation.
Dear Kenny
If the appraisal states that it was performed by a " GIA CERTIFIED APPRAISERor Gemologist" that is ficticious.
GIA issues diplomas for GRADUATE GEMOLOGISTS.
The American Gem Society issues titles of Certified Gemologist, Certified Gemologist Appraisers and Independent Certified Gemologist Appraiser.
These titles are owned by the AGS and use by them from anyone not a member of AGS is flagrantly incorrect.
see : www.ags.org for more details on this.
Rockdoc
If the appraisal states that it was performed by a " GIA CERTIFIED APPRAISERor Gemologist" that is ficticious.
GIA issues diplomas for GRADUATE GEMOLOGISTS.
The American Gem Society issues titles of Certified Gemologist, Certified Gemologist Appraisers and Independent Certified Gemologist Appraiser.
These titles are owned by the AGS and use by them from anyone not a member of AGS is flagrantly incorrect.
see : www.ags.org for more details on this.
Rockdoc
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- 9,159
Bingo.Date: 5/8/2005 1:321 PM
Author: kenny
Is this some marketing think to make the customer think he got a great deal?
Not everyone, but many.Date: 5/8/2005 1:321 PM
Author: kenny
I''m beginning to suspect I am paying attention to an ethical issue that everyone just turns their heads from.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
- Joined
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Rock Doc
I don't have the appraisal in front of me.
The jewelry was a Mother's Day gift I gave last night.
I also gave her all the documentation that came with the order.
So she has the appraisal.
I don't remember exactly the words used to describe the person who did the appraisal.
It did have the full name of the appraiser and a signature.
But an organization (other than Bluenile) was indicated to give the impression of independence ---- even though, like Duh, Bluenile ordered and paid for the appraisal! --- I believe the organization mentioned was the GIA.
I did not mean to imply that BN was using people who are not qualified.
Thanks for your clarification.
Also now I'm wondering if I should also give Mom the invoice.
It shows the price I paid.
By now she must have looked over the appraisal and think I paid that much.
Of course being human that makes her feel like she got a much more expensive stone, and makes me feel like a great son to pay that much.
So she is going to ask, "You mean it's really only worth THAT much?.
You only paid that much?"
Then I have to explain all this to her.
I wonder what percentage of grooms only show this "appraisal" to their brides .
This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
I don't have the appraisal in front of me.
The jewelry was a Mother's Day gift I gave last night.
I also gave her all the documentation that came with the order.
So she has the appraisal.
I don't remember exactly the words used to describe the person who did the appraisal.
It did have the full name of the appraiser and a signature.
But an organization (other than Bluenile) was indicated to give the impression of independence ---- even though, like Duh, Bluenile ordered and paid for the appraisal! --- I believe the organization mentioned was the GIA.
I did not mean to imply that BN was using people who are not qualified.
Thanks for your clarification.
Also now I'm wondering if I should also give Mom the invoice.
It shows the price I paid.
By now she must have looked over the appraisal and think I paid that much.
Of course being human that makes her feel like she got a much more expensive stone, and makes me feel like a great son to pay that much.
So she is going to ask, "You mean it's really only worth THAT much?.
You only paid that much?"
Then I have to explain all this to her.
I wonder what percentage of grooms only show this "appraisal" to their brides .
This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Date: 5/8/2005 24:38 PM
Author: kenny
Rock Doc
I don''t have the appraisal in front of me.
The jewelry was a Mother''s Day gift I gave last night.
I also gave her all the documentation that came with the order.
So she has the appraisal.
I don''t remember exactly the words used to describe the person who did the appraisal.
It did have the full name of the appraiser and a signature.
But an organization (other than Bluenile) was indicated to give the impression of independence ---- even though, like Duh, Bluenile ordered and paid for the appraisal! --- I believe the organization mentioned was the GIA.
I did not mean to imply that BN was using people who are not qualified.
Thanks for your clarification.
Also now I''m wondering if I should also give her the invoice.
It shows the price I paid.
By now she must have looked over the appraisal and think I paid that much.
Of course being human that makes me feel like a great son to pay that much.
This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Dear Kenny
I didn''t want to infer that BN uses unquailified people. However once the term CERITIFED is used. It is prudent for any reader of the report to verify WHO CERTIFIED this person, and the standards of that CERTIFICATION. It is totally possible that they have Graduate Gemologists on staff at BN.
In the case of the use "GIA CERTIFIED" is is improper to use this, as GIA has a statement on their website that they CERTIFY nothing, nor CERTIFY anyone.
The trade commonly states that diamonds are "Certified" by them, but if you read a GIA report, it disclaims any guarantee, warranty or certification. Also a similar disclosure is on AGS reports as well, both labs recommending that the diamond be reviewed by a competent or credentialed gemologist-appraiser.
Rockdoc
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Roc Doc
You are in the industry.
I am just a consumer relaying my experience.
I have already posted that my Mom has the appraisal.
My first post was from memory.
I don't have a photographic memory.
Again, I don't remember the exact wording and it is inmaterial to my point so let's not split hairs.
The point of this thread is how can a company sell you something and tell you it is worth 70% more?
Is my point lost?
Perhaps you are in a business that perpetuates this, so I have rattled your chains.
Peace,
Kenny
You are in the industry.
I am just a consumer relaying my experience.
I have already posted that my Mom has the appraisal.
My first post was from memory.
I don't have a photographic memory.
Again, I don't remember the exact wording and it is inmaterial to my point so let's not split hairs.
The point of this thread is how can a company sell you something and tell you it is worth 70% more?
Is my point lost?
Perhaps you are in a business that perpetuates this, so I have rattled your chains.
Peace,
Kenny
As one of the other posts in this thread says ( the one from Nice Ice)... it is possible for that depending on who the seller is, that there could be variances of the reported especially as the prices charged on the internet vs the prices charged by retail jewelers.
The patent key here is to evaluate the intended use of the document. If it says the value is for insurance purposes, then I don''t know how any appraisal could be valid, if the appraiser doesn''t know in advance the details of a claim settlement for the specific type of policy that the consumer is going to purchase.
One of the more common types of insurance deals with the basis of replacement insurance type policies. But if the consumer purchases an As Agreed type policy, the methodolgy of how the value was concluded may be incorrect.
If you are using this valuation to compare values from the internet, than the price you paid one internet vendor, needs to be compared with another internet vendor. To compare the prices charged across different market levels on the basis of "Did I get a good deal" is skewed. You have to compare apples and apples. Certainly there is nothing wrong than learning what a stone you bought on the internet would be priced in another market level, but again you have to interpret what is reported and the validity/ limitation on relying of such a comparison.
Many appraisals are based on HYPOTHETICAL and THEORETICAL values. Many refer to market levels that either aren''t common, or don''t really exist. The wording of this is rather "cleverly explained" in some of these reports. But understanding and interpreting what is reported and the basis for substanciating this is paramount in understanding what the report really says.
This is the basis for the "feel good" appraisal report to validate or attempt to validate that you got a superlative bargain. As you previously mentioned above, they sort of accomplished the "feel good" when you wrote that your mother would think that you paid 70% more than you actually did. But using the 70% more as a basis for use for insurance coverage acquisition, depending on the way your insurance company specfically settles claims can result in either overpaying of premiums, or other issues.
I certainly and wholeheartedly agree that a 70% increase in value is questionable. It just takes more understanding of the specific intent of the appraisal report.
Rockdoc
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