appraisal for insurance purposes

[agapitor]

I got my ring appraised for insurance purposes and I was surprised at the appraisal. To refresh your memory I purchased the BGD stone http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104045361002 and had it set by a local jeweler.

I was surprised that the stone was appraised at approx 1.28 G, SI1 and a very good cut. Is this normal. I was really happy with the over appraisal for the color (from J to G) but was really surprised that the cut was assigned as very good. It doesn't really bother me but just wondered if this was typical.

The value of the ring was also appraised approx $5k than what we paid for. So for insurance purposes do I just give them this number? I'm also wondering whether I should go with JM or get a rider on our home insurance. I'm in Canada by the way so I'm hoping some fellow Canucks will chime in.

thanks

 

[denverappraiser]

Did your appraiser mention that the stone is accompanied by an AGSL grading report? If not, why not? Since this is a document for insurance replacement purposes and this was an important attribute that you paid extra for when you bought it, and you presumably would want it to be replaced with an AGS-ideal stone as well, this seems terribly important. Even if it's true that GIA would call it VG (unlikely) and a G color (also unlikey), it's not relevant to the current assignment and it will lead to a replacement that is unikely to be comparable. Did you show the appraiser the AGSL report? Did you discuss this issue with them?

 

[Karl_K]

the BGD brand should have also been on the report as well as AGSL.
if not you need a correction done.
Anything that went into the value consideration should be on the report.
name/brand images upgrade/return policies.
They all have an impact on the market and price of a diamond.

 

[agapitor]

Did your appraiser mention that the stone is accompanied by an AGSL grading report? If not, why not? Since this is a document for insurance replacement purposes and this was an important attribute that you paid extra for when you bought it, and you presumably would want it to be replaced with an AGS-ideal stone as well, this seems terribly important. Even if it's true that GIA would call it VG (unlikely) and a G color (also unlikey), it's not relevant to the current assignment and it will lead to a replacement that is unikely to be comparable. Did you show the appraiser the AGSL report? Did you discuss this issue with them?

the BGD brand should have also been on the report as well as AGSL. if not you need a correction done.Anything that went into the value consideration should be on the report. name/brand images upgrade/return policies.They all have an impact on the market and price of a diamond.

UGH!! I'm afraid this was my error. I did not show them my AGS report nor did I show the BGD paperwork. I assumed that I should get an independent appraiser (a different jeweler than the one who set my stone) to ensure an unbiased assessment. I guess I was wrong? So, I should contact the appraiser to get a correction done.?

 

[Karl_K]

You got an independent appraisal you didn't get an insurance appraisal.
Your appraiser didn't discuss this with you? (many don't)
Yes you need a correction to properly document your diamond.
Talk to your appraiser, under these conditions paying slightly might more be needed.
The appraiser did fulfill what you hired him/her to do.

 

[malnik]

The value of the ring was also appraised approx $5k than what we paid for. So for insurance purposes do I just give them this number? I'm also wondering whether I should go with JM or get a rider on our home insurance. I'm in Canada by the way so I'm hoping some fellow Canucks will chime in.

thanks

I assume you meant your diamond was appraised for $5K more than what you paid for? You shouldn't report that number to insurance because it will cost you hundreds of dollars more on annual premium.

 

[Karl_K]

re: the number
For an insurance appraisal the number is really a minor part.
The real value is the professional description and documentation that can be taken to court and said on this day at this time it was Y. That is the basis for all future values/claims.
No other paperwork other than a properly prepared insurance appraisal provides that without bias.

 

[denverappraiser]

The purpose of an insurance replacement appriasal is to define the vaue characteristics of the item so that it can be replaced with another of like kind and quality in the case of a loss and to provide a basis for the insurance company to set their fees. It sounds like this isn't what you got. I agree, it's partially your fault because this isn't what you asked for but I would put the majority of the blame on the appraiser for not having this conversation with you at the beginning of the job (I'm assuming that they didn't have this conversation. If they asked and you lied, obviously it's all on you). By the way, I think all of the BGD stones that I've seen include a girdle inscription with the BGD logo and the AGSL report number. Even if you didn't show the report they should have noticed these, discussed them, and included them in their description and value research. Call up your appraiser, discuss the issue with them and give them the additional information and request a corrected report. They may or may not charge you and this decision is fairly likely to be based on customer attitude. Be nice.

 

[agapitor]

thanks everyone for the response. I did call the appraiser and he was more than willing to look at the ring again with the report. To answer some questions, no he didn't ask if there was a report that came with the ring.. in fact there wasn't much of any conversation going on however, I didn't specify that the purpose of the appraisal was for insurance.

When I called back and mentioned that I had an AGS report which was slightly different than the appraisal, they did say that the appraiser was GIA trained and AGS typically has more lenient standards. Nevertheless, he will look at it.

I will call JM to find out what they need from me and what exactly is covered based on the report that I provide them.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Note to this appraiser: A conversation MUST take place before taking on an appraisal assignment. You failed to ask very pertinent questions.

Note to person answering the phone at the store:
GIA training is important but has nothing to do with being a competent appraiser.
And finally, AGS is NOT regarded as lenient...just consistently accurate.

 

[stone-cold11]

When I called back and mentioned that I had an AGS report which was slightly different than the appraisal, they did say that the appraiser was GIA trained and AGS typically has more lenient standards. Nevertheless, he will look at it.

Haha, when he calls a J a G and dares to say AGS is lenient?

 

[RhubarbPie]

Maybe instead of taking it back to the same appraiser, take it to another one? Just from what you've said, it seems like maybe a second opinion is the way to go.

 

[agapitor]

When I called back and mentioned that I had an AGS report which was slightly different than the appraisal, they did say that the appraiser was GIA trained and AGS typically has more lenient standards. Nevertheless, he will look at it.

Haha, when he calls a J a G and dares to say AGS is lenient?

thought this was interesting too!

 

[agapitor]

Would I be breaking any protocol if I were to scan the appraisal for your viewing. If that's ok are there any information I should smudge. I took a closer look at the back of the appraisal and it looks like the best cut they would give is a very good (standard for GIA?) So I'd assume that if God forbid something happens to my ring and it needs replacing I would be able to replace it with an excellent/ideal/very good cut?

 

[Karl_K]

you can post a scan of it.
Just blur any personally identifying information.
I would also blur the appraisers name for now.

 

[denverappraiser]

I took a closer look at the back of the appraisal and it looks like the best cut they would give is a very good (standard for GIA?) So I'd assume that if God forbid something happens to my ring and it needs replacing I would be able to replace it with an excellent/ideal/very good cut?

The top grade in the GIA cut scale is 'excellent'.

It's possible to have an AGS-ideal that is NOT a GIA-excellent but they're pretty darned unusual and I would be inclined to ask the appraiser both if he's using the GIA scale and, if so, how he graded the stone and if he's he confident that this is one of those examples.

If something happens and your insurer needs to replace the piece, they will be using the description from the appraisal as the purchase order. The replacement company will do their best to meet that description as cheaply as they can. That's why it's so important to included as many details as possible and to make sure it includes the things that were important to you when you were shopping. Pedigree (the AGSL report), branding (the BGD logo), things like H&A symmetry (I'm guessing this is present), etc. are all important issues and the appraisal is how you are documenting these to the insurance company.

 

[AnneinGA]

May I just chime in with the following? If I took my rings to an appraiser that had a diamond with an inscription on the girdle (as your AGS BGD did), which lists the AGS, the AGS number, and the branding (BGD) and the appraiser failed to mention it; AND the appraiser said that AGS was more lenient than GIA; AND the appraiser color graded my J as a G: I would find another appraiser. Those three details are just too much to miss, regardless of what agapitor did or did not tell him/her.

 

[mrgodai]

you mentioned you've send the diamond to a local jeweler to mount on a setting, and the appraiser came back with a diamond that has different 4Cs and missed the inscription than the AGS report.

That is a huge red flag for me, either the appraiser sucks, or your diamond got swapped along the way.

please take it to the jeweler and make sure the inscription is still there. If it is, find another appraiser.

 

[agapitor]

you mentioned you've send the diamond to a local jeweler to mount on a setting, and the appraiser came back with a diamond that has different 4Cs and missed the inscription than the AGS report.

That is a huge red flag for me, either the appraiser sucks, or your diamond got swapped along the way.

please take it to the jeweler and make sure the inscription is still there. If it is, find another appraiser.

This thought has come to my mind although the local jeweler that set my diamond is a reputable one and is one of the higher end custom designers in my city. But when I meet with the appraiser again I'll confirm whether the BGD inscription is still there.

Denver, I wish I can scan the back part of the appraisal to show you what I mean about very good being the highest grade. I'm off for the rest of the week so I'll post it on Monday.

I think based on everyone's input if I'm not satisfied with the second meeting with the appraiser I will seek another appraisal. In the unfortunate event that something happens to my ring I want to be rest assured that the replacement will be of equal value and quality.

By the way, based on the setting, would it be difficult to detect the BGD inscription? I haven't seen it personally since I don't have a loupe strong enough. But I'm wondering if the metal would cover it.

 

[denverappraiser]

Most bench jewelers when they set these things will look for an inscription first and place the prongs where it doesn't cover them but It depends on the setter and whether or not they thought to look. Otherwise it's just luck. As I recall, the BGD logo and the AGS number are written on different places on the girdle so they may cover up one or the other if they weren't looking but I think it's unlikely that they covered both. When they're new they're pretty easy to spot, if not to read, using a standard loupe but the appraiser surely has a microscope that they can use to show it to you. Ask about it when you see them again. IF it's covered, I would recommend going back to the jeweler and asking them to rotate the stone in the setting to make it visible. From your photo it doesn't look like it'll be all that difficult and they'll probably do it for free since they set it in the first place.

 

[agapitor]

ok so the appraisal did a correction and basically just copied the information on the AGS report that BGD provided with the stone. Denver is this normal? So basically the only difference between the appraisal report and the AGS report is the dollar value indicated on the appraisal report.

Also, I'm not even sure if this is a concern. My diamond is a J color but faces up white.. so white that the appraiser assessed it as a G without the report. If something were to happen to my ring and had to replace it, would I have to replace it with a J color as well?

thanks again.

 

[Karl_K]

My diamond is a J color but faces up white.. so white that the appraiser assessed it as a G without the report. If something were to happen to my ring and had to replace it, would I have to replace it with a J color as well?

thanks again.

The proper replacement would be another superbly cut J that faces up white so a J is correct.
That is why it is important to accurately document the cut quality.

 

[agapitor]

My diamond is a J color but faces up white.. so white that the appraiser assessed it as a G without the report. If something were to happen to my ring and had to replace it, would I have to replace it with a J color as well?

thanks again.

The proper replacement would be another superbly cut J that faces up white so a J is correct.
That is why it is important to accurately document the cut quality.

phew.. thanks Karl.. Hopefully I won't have to ever deal with replacing it.

 

[denverappraiser]

ok so the appraisal did a correction and basically just copied the information on the AGS report that BGD provided with the stone. Denver is this normal? So basically the only difference between the appraisal report and the AGS report is the dollar value indicated on the appraisal report.

This is common, and fine, as far as it goes. There's quite a bit more to writing a good appraisal than copying a lab report and adding a price.

The photographs are important. The date is important. The signature is important. The appraisers qualifications statement and limiting conditions statement are important. A statement that he did or did not personally inspect the merchandise is important. Their statement of independence (meaning that they are or aren't related to either you or the insurance company) is important. Their expert statement that the stone matches the AGS report and that it's undamaged as of the date of their inspection is important. The definition of value being used is important. Their evaluation of the craftsmanship on the mounting is important. The details of the mounting like the various dimensions, karatage, size, manufacturing techniques etc. are important. There's more. The conversation they have with you and/or the report explaining all of the above is important.