Anyone have photos/videos comparing asscher vs royal asscher vs octavia?

[BlingDreams]

I've tried searching here but didn't see anything. Maybe I didn't use the correct search parameters? I also did a general Google search and struck out.

I know the technical differences (3/4/5 step pavilion, crown height, etc.) but would love to see real life side-by-side examples.

Also, one of the threads I read on here said royal asschers were no longer being cut. Does anyone know if this is still true? Just how rare are they?

Thanks for any help or insight you can provide!

 

[kenny]

I have some side by side comparison pics from when I owned both a very well cut generic asscher and an Octavia.
Sorry no Royals.

I'll see if I can find them.

 

[OECrystal]

GOG might have more video comparisons but this was the first one that came up for me with a quick YouTube search.

 

[kenny]

Found em.
They've been posted before, but since you asked ...

The Octavia is 1.38 ct H VS2 per AGS, and the Generic is 2.26 ct F VVS2 per GIA.
FWIW, both have three rows of pavilion and three rows of crown facets.

We sold the generic, kept the Octavia, then bought another Octavia.
While I loved this generic with top cut, the Octavia has explosive light performance that actually rivals the best-cut rounds.
To get an asscher to do this is a tribute to its brilliant designer, Karl K, who posts here.
It's also very difficult to cut, again kudos to the cutter Diagem, who posts here too.

In the first pic the generic's on top.
BTW, the settings make size comparisons unfair since the generic's setting covers two sides of the diamond, while the Octavia's setting only covers the tips of the four windmills.
IIRC Karl said the Octavia has similar face-up size per carat compared to a well-cut generic.



Generic on the left.



Generic on the left, both in titanium tension settings.



It's not a comparison pic, but I had to include this nice pic showing off Octavia's beautiful patterning and the kozibe effect.
BTW, my avatar is an Octavia sitting in a flower.

 

[BlingDreams]

Found em.
They've been posted before, but since you asked ...

The Octavia is 1.38 ct H VS2 per AGS, and the Generic is 2.26 ct F VVS2 per GIA.
FWIW, both have three rows of pavilion and three rows of crown facets.

We sold the generic, kept the Octavia, then bought another Octavia.
While I loved this generic with top cut, the Octavia has explosive light performance that actually rivals the best-cut rounds.
To get an asscher to do this is a tribute to its brilliant designer, Karl K, who posts here.
It's also very difficult to cut, again kudos to the cutter Diagem, who posts here too.

In the first pic the generic's on top.
BTW, the settings make size comparisons unfair since the generic's setting covers two sides of the diamond, while the Octavia's setting only covers the tips of the four windmills.
IIRC Karl said the Octavia has similar face-up size per carat compared to a well-cut generic.



Generic on the left.



Generic on the left, both in titanium tension settings.



It's not a comparison pic, but I had to include this nice pic showing off Octavia's beautiful patterning and the kozibe effect.
BTW, my avatar is an Octavia sitting in a flower.

Those were fantastic Kenny! Thanks so much for the detailed write-up as well as taking the time to post the photos. It helps me prepare for what I'm about to see in person.

I'm curious - in your first post you shed tears that you didn't have a royal asscher. Why is that? Because they're rare or because of another reason? I'm hearing whispers that I may be able to consider one so I'm trying to get an idea of how it would compare to an Octavia as I've read both of those are more brilliantly cut than a generic asscher.

 

[kenny]

Thanks.

Years ago when shopping what I read about the Royal Asscher, RA, made me really really want one.
IIRC, I was not able to locate one when I was shopping so never got the luxury of a side by side comparison. (the only way to truly compare diamonds)
I'm no expert on the RA; I actually gave up learning about them when I accepted there was no chance of seeing one in person.

Read about the company's history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Asscher_Diamond_Company

I suspect the RA, being a branded cut from the high-profile Asscher family itself, (and after what I read on the Wiki link) has proportions optimized for light performance, and to preserve the brand's reputation the recipe is tightly conformed to during cutting.
I'm no mathematician or diamond designer but I suspected that 5 rows (if placed with equal care) could control where light goes with more control and precision than 3 rows.
But more rows means more facets, which means smaller facets, which means more (but smaller) flashes of light and fire.
A different personality.
IMO the Octavia got it just right.

The Octavia does not produce those long bar facet flashes of a generic.
Overall still I, by far, prefer Octavia's lack of light leakage and high level of fire and scintillation.

When shopping a few years ago a vendor in Florida had a couple RAs left over from when they used to be a vendor; they were selling them at a good price.
I think it was, "Diamond Brokers of Florida".
I don't know whether they still have any RAs, or even whether they are reputable.
I could be mistaken but I think they got banned from PS, so buyer beware, do you homework.

Let me also say, preference for any diamond pattern is 100% personal preference.
No one pattern (itself) is superior.
I DID enjoy the calm, stately, elegant long facets of the well cut generic asscher.
It had a much different mood than the Octavia.
That said, what is fact and not opinion or personal preference is level of light performance.
It can objectively be measured.
More light returning to your eyes is better than light leaking out the diamond's butt.
I can't imagine anyone prefers a diamond that's dark, flat, dull and just sits there yawning.

I know good cut.
Before getting into Asschers I enjoyed two rounds with top cut, an ACA from Whiteflash and a Solasfera.
I'll state that the Octavia's design recipe (and I suspect the RA design recipe) has more sparkle and fire than a generic asscher, even a well-cut generic.

That famous 3-D hall-of-mirrors (HOM) effect Asschers are renowned for was more noticeable with my 2.26 generic than it is in the 1.38 Octavia, but it's unfair to compare this charcteristic in two diamonds of such different size.
HOM is easier to see in a larger diamond, especially with my old man eyes.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I have owned a few Royal Asscher stones- but it's been about 12+ years- so I never had the chance to compare right next to an Octavia.
As far as I recall, the branded Asscher cut was indeed more closely related to an Octavia than the (lovely) Asscher cut Kenny posted as a comparison.
The Royal stones had large corners- true octagons.
I'd have to look it up, but I believe GIA classified them as Octagonal Step Cut
Small tables as well.
I have occasionally seen stones that had that same look. Some were cut by Yoram. And I've seen such stones cut by a small number of other cutters as well.
I hesitate to call such stones "generic" but there are a few out there with similar proportions to the branded Asscher.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I've tried searching here but didn't see anything. Maybe I didn't use the correct search parameters? I also did a general Google search and struck out.

I know the technical differences (3/4/5 step pavilion, crown height, etc.) but would love to see real life side-by-side examples.

Also, one of the threads I read on here said royal asschers were no longer being cut. Does anyone know if this is still true? Just how rare are they?

Thanks for any help or insight you can provide!

I don't know about RA, but I can tell you that my Octavia was #30 which was cut about 2 yrs ago. Maybe as of today there are still less than 60 Octavias on earth?

 

[bmfang]

Good gosh that Octavia is bewdiful!!! I just showed my wife that and she was kinda breathless at how it looked. Must be as rare as hens teeth.

 

[acebruin]

Kenny, we can always do a meet up, so you can see and compare an RA in person!

 

[acebruin]

I'd have to look it up, but I believe GIA classified them as Octagonal Step Cut.

It's cut-cornered square step cut.

 

[Rockdiamond]

It's cut-cornered square step cut.

Thanks for saving me a research job Ace!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My personal favorite is an antique asscher, because I just love antique style cuts in general. Those are rare, too. I adore the small table and high crown (and Octavia has that in a modern version). Here's mine loose and set by Caysie van Bebber:

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Also, for another modern version cut for light performance (and new and very rare) is Jonathan from Good Old Gold's signature asscher which may still be under development. (It's not an octavia despite what the links says.)

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...S-G-VS1-diamond-stock-13076-cert-104076386002

 

[kenny]

DS, that's a gorgeous diamond, and the perfect setting for it.
Well done.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, we can always do a meet up, so you can see and compare an RA in person!

That would be nice.

 

[BlingDreams]

My personal favorite is an antique asscher, because I just love antique style cuts in general. Those are rare, too. I adore the small table and high crown (and Octavia has that in a modern version). Here's mine loose and set by Caysie van Bebber:

Spectacular diamond! And lovely setting too. We've actually decided to talk with Caysie about possibly doing my setting; I was pretty set on using Vanessa Nicole but seeing all of the beautiful CvB settings here made me open my mind to the possibility!

 

[gretag]

 

[diamondseeker2006]

DS, that's a gorgeous diamond, and the perfect setting for it.
Well done.

Thanks so much, Kenny! That is a nice compliment coming from someone who has discriminating taste in step cut stones! I have to say, I adore asschers and feel fortunate to have this one!

Spectacular diamond! And lovely setting too. We've actually decided to talk with Caysie about possibly doing my setting; I was pretty set on using Vanessa Nicole but seeing all of the beautiful CvB settings here made me open my mind to the possibility!

Thank you! I wish you good luck in finding a gorgeous stone for yourself! Caysie is a gifted designer and I love her work!

 

[Karl_K]

My personal favorite is an antique asscher, because I just love antique style cuts in general. Those are rare, too. I adore the small table and high crown (and Octavia has that in a modern version). Here's mine loose and set by Caysie van Bebber:

All I can say is wow that is awesome.
That is the style of Asscher I wanted to bring back with Octavia.
You have a real treasure there!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I can say is wow that is awesome.
That is the style of Asscher I wanted to bring back with Octavia.
You have a real treasure there!!

Awww, Karl!!! Thank you! It truly makes me happy that you like it!!! There's a back story of how I ended up with it if you want to read here:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/antique-asscher-ring-by-cvb-inspired-design.227710/

 

[Karl_K]

Awww, Karl!!! Thank you! It truly makes me happy that you like it!!! There's a back story of how I ended up with it if you want to read here:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/antique-asscher-ring-by-cvb-inspired-design.227710/

WOW It is like you were destined to have that diamond.

 

[Dancing Fire]

My personal favorite is an antique asscher, because I just love antique style cuts in general. Those are rare, too. I adore the small table and high crown (and Octavia has that in a modern version). Here's mine loose and set by Caysie van Bebber:

Beautiful ring DS!..

 

[whitewave]

Kenny, let me ask you this as a consumer lf both a regular asscher and an octavia: why not just buy an ideal round or a cushion cut for the sparkle?

What makes the octavia asscher more desirable than other brilliant cuts, especially since it loses the hall of mirrors?

I'd love to be able to compare, since there was no chance of me finding an asscher in person, leading me to buy sight unseen. There is less than zero chance of me ever seeing them together.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, let me ask you this as a consumer lf both a regular asscher and an octavia: why not just buy an ideal round or a cushion cut for the sparkle?

What makes the octavia asscher more desirable than other brilliant cuts, especially since it loses the hall of mirrors?

No shape is 'the best'.
It's all personal preference.
My preference applies only to me.

Also, I didn't say Octavia has no hall of mirrors.
The effect was more noticeable in my generic asscher mostly because it was almost a carat larger.

DF, you have a 2.38 Octavia ... do you get the hall of mirrors effect in yours?

 

[whitewave]

That would answer my question if the answer is sparkle plus hall of mirrors. Dazzling and unique..

My favorite combo

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, you have a 2.38 Octavia ... do you get the hall of mirrors effect in yours?

What do you guys meant by "hall of mirrors effect"?

 

[kenny]

It is a 3-D effect only visible in person since w have 2 eyes.
As you rock the asscher slowly side to side just a little while looking into the center it looks like a room with mirrors on the walls is being moved in front of you.

 

[whitewave]

You get drawn in and it seems like the effect goes on forever in there... down down down down into the soul of the asscher

 

[kenny]

You get drawn in and it seems like the effect goes on forever in there... down down down down into the soul of the asscher

My GIA report listed only a cloud and a feather, no soul.