Any opinions on this RB from Antwerp?

[sjr]

Hello all,

I am going to visit friends in Holland soon, and thought my girlfriend would be ecstatic if she thought I bought a stone in Antwerp (little does she know about the interenet and its capabilities- ha). Anyways, I found one in antwerp, but am wondering if you experts can tell me how these statistics match up to all the reports here in the US.

Weight 2.00 ct
Color E
Clarity VVS2
Table 55%
Crown 14,5%
Pavillion 43,5%
Girdle 3,5% facteced
Culet pointed
Measurements 8.04*8.16*4.98 mm
Certifed by HRD Antwerp
Fluorescence None
Proportions Very good-- he said there were hearts and arrows patterning
Finish grade Good
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance Excellent
Export Price : 30,950 USD

This is all he could provide me, no Angles (i don''t have a scientific calc- but off of 8.16 mm- crown would be inv-cos of 1.836/1.183), B-scope, Ideal scope etc. Everything looks great to me outside a little thick girdle- although I am not sure if proportions ''very good'' is the highest over in europe (I seem to think it is). I just need to have him hold it or not and then I would see it in person. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated and if I am missing something based on such little info. Thanks, SJR

 

[Rhino]

Hi sjr,

Caught your post and ran the numbers through diamcalc. If this is anywhere close to what it is, you have a stone here that''ll perform excellently in direct light conditoins (firey) but will suffer in softer light conditions due to an offset in contrast (too many darks and not enough lights, caused by head obstruction). A feature currently not covered in HCA results. Also scintillation can be great or poor depending on minor facet construction which is also not covered in HCA.

Peace,

 

[RockDoc]

I would suggest that you make an appointment to see Paul-Antwerp if you are going there.

On the home page he has written some very informative articles, and he has a cutting company there, rather than possibly just being a merchant. Send him an email or private message, I''m sure he''ll respond to you with some very good advice.

He writes on the forum and I think he has better stones than the one posted, so you can compare properly.

Look his name up in the search engine above....

He also cuts a branded H&A stone called the Venus Infinity diamond. So when you''re there compare the two and see which suits you better.

Rockdoc

 

[Stephan]

finish grade only good.
should be a concern.

 

[sjr]

Thanks all once again for the help! It was also my concern that I thought these HCA stones were already sealed, so any measurements not in these certs were kindof lost measurements- like minor facet numbers. I think the people would rather just sell to someone else than have to get those contrast measurements for little ol'' me.

I can''t tell you how much I would have been taken to the cleaners without all the willing people here. I still might, but at least it will be more fun. SJR

 

[valeria101]

Not sure how important the "good finsh" and slight contrast detail are.

For once, I do not know what the "finish" means for this particular lab. If it''s the same as GIA''s polish and facet-meet symmetry than... it doesn''t mean all that much visually.

The contrast thing is a matter of each stone''s "personality", IMO. It would be nice to be able to choose among different versions and develop your own appreciation of these details. But... with stones sold remotely and little opportunity to see dozens of them lined up, this just might not happen.

It sounds like Jonatahn insists on showing his customers the gammut;

this, according to one year worth of stories here, I wish I knew of his shop last time I passed by NYC

Was your question about how HRD grades compare with GIA''s ?
No idea, really, but if this stone''s cost is to be compared with GIA graded peers, it really sounds good! Not to mention the extra details about cut.

Just my 0.2, of course

 

[mdx]

I like Rockdoc''s suggestion that you visit Paul while in Antwerp.

The Antwerp diamond area can be a challenging experience for the inexperienced.

Johan

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Hey Rockdoc,

Thank you for suggesting sjr to visit me while in Antwerp.

SJR,

You are more than welcome to visit me here, but please bear in mind that we do not sell direct, and that you will have to work through one of our dealers.

I have a technical question about the stone that you asked feedback for. I see scores for Light Return, Fire, Scintillation, Spread and Total Visual Performance. What are they based upon?

Later on, you mention ''HCA-stones''. What do you mean? Is this a term used by the seller?

Also, you mention that you can only buy them sealed. Did I understand this correctly?

Could you please clarify?

 

[RockDoc]

Paul Antwerp

Why wouldn''t I mention you? You cut great stones, and you''re knowledgeable.

In the maze of diamond districts, I believe I am helping SJR.

By the way one of your "critters" is here, and its a nice incredibly well cut lively and very symmetrical stone.



Since you require him to use one of your dealers, I could suggest Gary Dutton ( here as Diamond Expert) http://www.diamondexpert.com. Gary visited me a few years ago here in Florida, and he is a really good gemologist with lots of knowledge.

Rockdoc

 

[sjr]

RockDoc- Thanks indeed for the suggestion, as I have already learned a lot from Paul Antwerp through his threads. And based on what he provides, I would feel much more comfortable going through one of his dealers anyways. This was just a dealer I found a while back and was trying to gage prices to quality. I have not seen many E VVS2 in 8 mm diam. with ideal H&A, and this one apparently does not fit that entirely also.

Paul Antwerp- I appreciate the reply again to clarify my posts. Sorry, I made a typo with HCA- should have been HRD.

In question as to how there are ratings of ''excellent'' in fire, briliance and light return- Well, that was my question-> I wasn''t sure how popular the technology is right now in Europe to measure these things. Consequently, I am feeling that this is a personal interpretation of the stone (I have yet to receive an email clarifying this). And since he did not give me star/upper ratios or minor facet lengths, I am not sure how one could even numerically rate scintillation (based on contrast?). I thought I read HRD is just a more tough version of GIA? Also, are there certain small cutters in Antwerp who sell their own cut diamonds to consumers?

As far as the sealed thing goes, this dealer implied that the stones are enclosed in a clear plastic piece once they are rated by HRD, so as to make (I assume) the buyer feel more comfortable that it comes unaltered from the lab. Perhaps I just lept to conclusions once again. But this is why I seek everyone''s advice! Thanks again, SJR

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 4/3/2005 7:55

4 PM
Author: sjr
Paul Antwerp- I appreciate the reply again to clarify my posts. Sorry, I made a typo with HCA- should have been HRD.

In question as to how there are ratings of ''excellent'' in fire, briliance and light return- Well, that was my question-> I wasn''t sure how popular the technology is right now in Europe to measure these things. Consequently, I am feeling that this is a personal interpretation of the stone (I have yet to receive an email clarifying this). And since he did not give me star/upper ratios or minor facet lengths, I am not sure how one could even numerically rate scintillation (based on contrast?). I thought I read HRD is just a more tough version of GIA? Also, are there certain small cutters in Antwerp who sell their own cut diamonds to consumers?

It seems to me that the vendor is using a terminology, comparable to the Brilliancescope-terms, without using the machine. Be careful for a smokescreen.

HRD being a tough version of GIA? Weird terminology again. HRD is a lab, just like GIA-GTL is, and there is no connection between them. If one would compare their grading, very often one would find that HRD is stricter on colour, and GIA is stricter on clarity (in the high clarities).

Small cutters in Antwerp selling their own diamonds? What exactly do you mean?

Date: 4/3/2005 7:55

4 PM
Author: sjr
As far as the sealed thing goes, this dealer implied that the stones are enclosed in a clear plastic piece once they are rated by HRD, so as to make (I assume) the buyer feel more comfortable that it comes unaltered from the lab. Perhaps I just lept to conclusions once again. But this is why I seek everyone''s advice! Thanks again, SJR

Sealing is an optional service of HRD. Originally, the intention probably was to give more confidence to the consumer, since the stone was sealed by the lab. The sealing however is now also used to delude the customer. On a sealed stone, one cannot judge the true colour and it is very difficult to judge the exact location and the kind of inclusion. How can one judge if an SI-stone is eye-clean? Also, one cannot judge the cut, but by the numbers on the cert.

Live long,