Any idea why the 25% premium on the BGD stone?

[celledge]

These stones are VERY similar, both super ideal cut, low HCA, same Color and Clarity... What could be some reasons for the 25% premium?

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/.../2.985-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-c-104107202015

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4140155.htm

 

[gm89uk]

Different business models. This is the BG "black" line which is supposed to be their finest cut.

Short answer, get the cheaper one. Nothing between them worth 25%. If they were the same price, there is no winner, from the data available. Additionally WF has a better upgrade policy.

 

[lovedogs]

Ditto @gm89uk ! There is nothing different enough to warrant a 25% increase in price, ESPECIALLY since BGD has a worse upgrade policy.

 

[TODiamonds]

25% premium for the Black box you get

 

[Wewechew]

25% premium for the Black box you get

Were you around for that thread?

@celledge go with WF.

 

[TODiamonds]

Were you around for that thread?

@celledge go with WF.

No - but sounds like an entertaining thread!

 

[Wewechew]

@TODiamonds https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-boxes-packaging-black-by-brian-gavin.243740/

 

[the_mother_thing]

Yea, to charge that kind of premium for a diamond that is supposed to be ‘all that and a bag of chips’, then cheap out on the presentation box makes zero sense (or cents) to me. At THAT much of a price difference, I’d expect a customized presentation box made to as exacting and superb a standard as what was going inside the box.

OP: Buy the WF diamond, get as beautiful a diamond along with the better upgrade policy AND nice box (without having to ask), and use the money saved for a nice vacation, engagement photographer, or some other special plan or purchase.

 

[yssie]

Were you around for that thread?

@celledge go with WF.

FWIW I thought that poster was a complete loony toon. His obsession with packaging and #MyRingHasThisMinisculeProblem when the issue of his focus wasn’t even in the top fifty things none could potentially nitpick about his ring... Poor BGD!

 

[Wewechew]

FWIW I thought that poster was a complete loony toon. His obsession with packaging and #MyRingHasThisMinisculeProblem when the issue of his focus wasn’t even in the top fifty things none could potentially nitpick about his ring... Poor BGD!

I felt badly for BG in that instance too

 

[the_mother_thing]

I may be in the minority, but I don’t feel bad for BGD in that situation. I think the response that OP received was perhaps just the beginning of the since-lowered level of customer service others have reported experiencing with BGD. The only reason that thread apparently went on as long as it did was the number of people who kept coming back at the OP suggesting he was unreasonable, and he attempted to explain/clarify the understanding of events that led to his expectations being what they were; that’s my take on it, anyway. Not saying that OP isn’t perhaps a smidge more particular than the average consumer (then again, aren’t most PSers? ), but as he stated, BGD set ‘the bar’ for him; not the other way around.

The box is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, but I do think that OP was fed a line of BS about the supposed ‘eco-friendly’ aspects of the box being synonymous with the ‘Black’ line, considering not one speck of BGD’s marketing related to the ‘Black’ speaks to - much less hints at - being fueled by an ‘eco-friendly’ spirit. To the contrary, it almost oozes hypocrisy when you consider how many trees were probably killed by all the legal paperwork required to get so many fluffy terms copyrighted just to support and advertise how stupendous this diamond is (and I’m not denying it very well may be that stupendous). Common sense tells me a nice, lacquered bamboo ring box might have been a better ‘eco-friendly’ choice than cardboard when a customer is dropping that much money for “the Gavin Effect®”.

 

[flyingpig]

BGD "It is 3 carat "
WF "It is almost 3 carat"
Pricing 0.9X, 1.9X, 2.9X, carat stones can be tricky.

 

[brightspark]

I’m really curious as to where this story about BGD’s terrible upgrade policy comes from. People seem to say this a lot but I haven’t had that experience at all.

When I bought my earrings, upgrade policy was a legit concern and Lesley assured me that they’re more than happy to be flexible and work with people to get the stones they want. Compared to BN or any B&M store where upgrades have to be twice the cost of the original stones, they seem totally reasonable.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m really curious as to where this story about BGD’s terrible upgrade policy comes from. People seem to say this a lot but I haven’t had that experience at all.

When I bought my earrings, upgrade policy was a legit concern and Lesley assured me that they’re more than happy to be flexible and work with people to get the stones they want. Compared to BN or any B&M store where upgrades have to be twice the cost of the original stones, they seem totally reasonable.

I don’t recall anyone saying it’s ‘terrible’; it is more restrictive than that offered by Whiteflash, which OP was comparing upthread.

Yes, it’s still quite a bit better than the majority of other vendors out there.

 

[distracts]

I’m really curious as to where this story about BGD’s terrible upgrade policy comes from. People seem to say this a lot but I haven’t had that experience at all.

When I bought my earrings, upgrade policy was a legit concern and Lesley assured me that they’re more than happy to be flexible and work with people to get the stones they want. Compared to BN or any B&M store where upgrades have to be twice the cost of the original stones, they seem totally reasonable.

"Being flexible" isn't written in the rules anywhere and most of the time "being flexible" means "we're going to make you think we'll do what makes you happy but we're really going to do what's best for us." The official BGD policy is that you must upgrade two of size, color, and clarity. That's the upgrade policy I'd count on. As has been stated before, this policy is problematic if you start out buying high-color, high-clarity diamonds, since your upgrading ability will be limited unless they choose to make an exception. Nobody is saying they have a terrible upgrade policy (that I have seen), they're saying that other places have better ones.

 

[brightspark]

“Terrible” was an exaggeration. I just consistently see criticism of their policy which doesn’t seem totally warranted based on conversations I’ve had with people there.

I’ve had really nice experiences with them so it would surprise me if they were the kind of company to go back on their word or “just do what’s good for them”. I mean, they just risk losing customers that way, no?

Anyway, I was honestly just genuinely curious as there are faar more rigid upgrade policies out there but no one ever seems to talk about them.

 

[gm89uk]

“Terrible” was an exaggeration. I just consistently see criticism of their policy which doesn’t seem totally warranted based on conversations I’ve had with people there.

I’ve had really nice experiences with them so it would surprise me if they were the kind of company to go back on their word or “just do what’s good for them”. I mean, they just risk losing customers that way, no?

Anyway, I was honestly just genuinely curious as there are faar more rigid upgrade policies out there but no one ever seems to talk about them.

The stone in comparison has a much moremflexible upgrade policy. Glad you've had very pleasant experiences, others haven't, if it's not in writing, word of mouth means very little.
The upgrade policy becomes increasingly restrictive the higher the specs of the original stone.

OP is pretty much already at 3 cts, to upgrade to anything more may be very difficult financially with higher colour and clarity, and they aren't exactly common at that size.

 

[Wewechew]

“Terrible” was an exaggeration. I just consistently see criticism of their policy which doesn’t seem totally warranted based on conversations I’ve had with people there.

I’ve had really nice experiences with them so it would surprise me if they were the kind of company to go back on their word or “just do what’s good for them”. I mean, they just risk losing customers that way, no?

Anyway, I was honestly just genuinely curious as there are faar more rigid upgrade policies out there but no one ever seems to talk about them.

Start poking around at other threads... BG is not known for great customer service in the past year.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@brightspark I think what you are viewing as ‘criticism’ is actually people contrasting BGD’s policy with others? Those two are not the same thing; it’s not negative/bad to say it’s ‘more restrictive’ or ‘less flexible’ when those statements are facts. It’s not like people are saying “BGD has a terrible/non-existent upgrade policy” that I’ve read anywhere, but the fact remains - when compared to WF or HPD, it IS more restrictive for the buyer. We don’t make those policies; vendors do.

Have you upgraded with BGD? If so, what where the color, clarity and carat stats for your original and upgrade diamonds? Perhaps you can shed light on what your experiences have been with BGD, and where you found BGD to be ‘flexible’ with their policies to ensure your satisfaction. If you’re a repeat, loyal customer of BGD, they’d probably appreciate your sharing a contrasting experience.

As also pointed out above, there ARE people reporting their negative customer/buying/returning experiences with BGD outside of their upgrade policy; perhaps that’s what you find so ‘terrible’ that you’re seeing and confusing the two; but those experiences are valid and posting about them is not wrong, false, etc. when done constructively & transparently. It’s helpful to know about these issues when making decisions about where to spend money and what to expect, even if others’ experiences with the same vendor differ. And for those who aren’t familiar with these vendors and policies, it helps them to post about them to understand how these things typically work.

 

[celledge]

Thanks all for the comments. The thread got a bit sideways on return policies, I was just wondering why the huge price difference on very similar stones. I think both vendors have beautiful diamonds. WF seems to have the most stock.

 

[sledge]

I think there are a few reasons:

1. As @flyingpig noted in post #12, pricing out a stone that is almost 3 carats is a little more tricky than one that is over 3 carats because of magic carat weights, etc. That said, both of these stones fly under the 3 carat mark at 2.985 (BGD) and 2.968 (WF).

Looking on WF's website, they have 3 stones including the one you listed that would be equal comparisons -- barely misses 3 carat mark and all I/VS2's. All 3 range from $11,816 to $11,826 per carat (using wire pricing). That's pretty tight pricing on 3 stones.



And quite honestly, the proportions of the WF 2.941 has me all gaga -- without a 25% price premium.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4140160.htm

Small 55.5 table coupled with a 34.9 crown and very complimentary 40.7 pavilion results in a nice 15.5 crown height. And while the LGF's are also 77, they look a smidge fatter (which I prefer) because of the smaller table. While none of these stones are slouches, this one would be my pick as it favors more big bold rainbow flashes.


2. Perhaps at the time that BGD bought the rough, prices were higher. Or maybe they had to cut the rough in a way that wasn't advantageous to them and it pushed the price higher.


3. While the cut is proprietary, BGD markets the Black series as a stone with a specialty cut that is more precise than their Signature series. It would stand to reason there could be additional time/labor costs involved to perform the additional level of precision; therefore, pushing the price up per carat.

This article seems to back up my thoughts on #2 and #3 above:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/black-brian-gavin-vs-brian-gavin-signature/



Some final thoughts. Black stones up to 2.9 carats are D-G color. But on 3+ carat stones, they make exceptions. I get the reasoning, and I have nothing against the I color but it makes it feel a little less "Blackish" as a result.

https://black.briangavindiamonds.com/about-us

My wife's stone is a BGD Blue and Lesley was nothing short of awesome to me when I was going through the process. In my situation I didn't pay a premium, the stone was much smaller so upgrades would be easier to do and my wife is sentimental but if we were to trade I was okay with upgrading color & carat size, which would qualify for the 2 C's needed in the BGD program.

Your situation is entirely different. And while I can appreciate and understand how costs to produce a Black diamond would push up, it's only worthwhile (to me) if I get something I consider special or more valuable. I'm not currently under the impression that sitting a Black next to a Signature (comparable to an ACA) would blow my socks off. In fact, according to their own literature, I should probably expect that to NOT happen.

All the above in consideration, I personally would not consider the Black to be worth the 25% cost premium. I'd be more inclined to buy the ACA I linked above, pocket the extra $8k and have a better upgrade program with deeper inventory so when/if you do upgrade you have more/better options. All without fear of sacrificing any meaningful quality or sparkle bomb dances.

 

[TODiamonds]

Doesn't BGD have a rep on this forum?

 

[sledge]

Doesn't BGD have a rep on this forum?

When I bought my wife's stone back in 2018, Lesley (Brian's wife) said they do not actively participate in the forums here, although they do occasionally view them as we had conversations about how many people got involved in my journey here on PS.

Looking at some much older posts I believe Brian used to participate, and possibly under the name "Brian the Cutter" although when I put the @ symbol it doesn't pull it up so I can tag him. I'm going off memory (as I don't recall the exact date of the older threads I was reading) but I think this was about the time he was with WF (or possibly before) and also before BGD formed. I could be wrong. I haven't been a part of PS that long.

@Karl_K can you comment about Brian's old user name?

 

[Karl_K]

@Karl_K can you comment about Brian's old user name?

Since Brian left WF and went out on his own, he and his wife no longer posts on here.
I guessed at the time it was probably part of his agreement with WF when he left, but that is just my guess not a fact.
It was as i recall Brian the cutter and his wife posted as lesleyH neither comes up with @.

 

[sledge]

Since Brian left WF and went out on his own, he and his wife no longer posts on here.
I guessed at the time it was probably part of his agreement with WF when he left, but that is just my guess not a fact.
It was as i recall Brian the cutter and his wife posted as lesleyH neither comes up with @.

Thanks for the clarification @Karl_K. Much appreciated.

 

[ccyk]

Just a reminder that the whole point of getting better cut quality is that it supposedly costs the least to upgrade than other 3 C for maximize value for average consumers.

a 25% premium may not make economic sense to some people.