Any "Curly Girls" out there? LadyKemma?

[Christa]

I just found this book (Curly Girl: A Handbook by Lorraine Massey), and I'm skeptical and impressed all at the same time. In the favorite shampoos thread Lady Kemma mentioned the "curly girl routine" but I didn't know what she meant until I came across the book. The basic premise is that shampoo is baaaaad--if you have very curly hair you should just "wash" with conditioner. I have ringlet-y but not kinky hair (kind of like a spiral perm--remember those?) and it took me many years to figure out how to get it to look good. Anyway, I decided to try the no-shampoo thing over the weekend, and I'm really surprised that my hair looks GREAT, if I do say so myself. So far I've gone three days with just conditioner and it doesn't stink yet

which is what I'm concerned about. It feels and smells and looks clean (I'm someone who NEVER goes a day without washing my hair) and the curls are very defined and completely frizzless. I kind of wish I had before and after pictures.

So has anyone else tried this? Can you really go shampoo-less or do you have to break it out once a week or so?

 

[Mara]

why wouldn''t you just wash with shampoo then condition?? i don''t know if i could not shampoo!

i have naturally curly hair, but i chemically straighten it...though it doesn''t take all the curl out, it just makes it WAY cuter and more manageable if i decide to leave it wavy, which i do sometimes. it''s such a different look. i have seriously curly hair originally.

and oh man i have some college pix from before i straigthened and i had some SERIOUS hair going on. i have a ton of hair so it''s always been big but it seemed like it was biggest then. hahah.

 

[poptart]

I have that book... sitting on my table in fact. My hair is very curly... that first type the book mentions, and I only use conditioner, no shampoo. I''ve done this for about two months or so, and my hair is healthier than it has ever been. It shines more and doesn''t break as easily. And it smells good, not funny or anything. My friends have been saying that it looks better also. I''ve also noticed that it doesn''t need as much maintenance now because the conditioner weighs it down just enough that I can air dry it and it looks great. The masks in the back of the book work really well also, as does the lavender spray. Needless to say, I am VERY glad I bought it, and although some of the stuff she suggests in there seem a little odd, they work. I noticed in your picture that your hair is short, so I don''t know if this will help you at all, but if you braid your hair at night it keeps it from tangling in the back where all those baby hairs are, and lets you wash it without pulling out as much hair. Just a thought. I''m so glad someone else bought that book, it''s so great I recommended it to all my friends with curly hair, haha.

Marisa

 

[poptart]

Date: 10/16/2006 11:26:33 PM
Author: Mara
why wouldn''t you just wash with shampoo then condition?? i don''t know if i could not shampoo!

i have naturally curly hair, but i chemically straighten it...though it doesn''t take all the curl out, it just makes it WAY cuter and more manageable if i decide to leave it wavy, which i do sometimes. it''s such a different look. i have seriously curly hair originally.

and oh man i have some college pix from before i straigthened and i had some SERIOUS hair going on. i have a ton of hair so it''s always been big but it seemed like it was biggest then. hahah.

Mara,

The book shows the difference between straight and curly hair, and curly hair is more sponge-like. When you put shampoo in it, the shampoo is never really completely washed out, which dries it up and makes it break. I assume it is the same if you straighten it, but if you take good care of it (as I am sure you do) it stays pretty healthy. All I know is that since I stopped shampooing my hair is twice as healthy... so whatever works!

Marisa

 

[Christa]

Yay, that''s exactly the kind of input I was looking for, Marisa!

Date: 10/16/2006 11:29:12 PM
Author: poptart
I have that book... sitting on my table in fact. My hair is very curly... that first type the book mentions, and I only use conditioner, no shampoo. I''ve done this for about two months or so, and my hair is healthier than it has ever been. It shines more and doesn''t break as easily. And it smells good, not funny or anything. My friends have been saying that it looks better also. I''ve also noticed that it doesn''t need as much maintenance now because the conditioner weighs it down just enough that I can air dry it and it looks great. The masks in the back of the book work really well also, as does the lavender spray. Needless to say, I am VERY glad I bought it, and although some of the stuff she suggests in there seem a little odd, they work. I noticed in your picture that your hair is short, so I don''t know if this will help you at all, but if you braid your hair at night it keeps it from tangling in the back where all those baby hairs are, and lets you wash it without pulling out as much hair. Just a thought. I''m so glad someone else bought that book, it''s so great I recommended it to all my friends with curly hair, haha.

Marisa

That''s exactly what I''m finding, even though I''m only 3 days into it. I''ve always shampooed and then used tons of moisturizing conditioner, but I''m amazed at what a difference skipping the shampoo makes. My hair is what she calls "Botticelli", though on the curlier end of the spectrum, and actually it''s quite a bit longer than in my avatar. I was about to go get it cut until I tried this crazy thing and now I''m kind of loving the longness again. I still think I might shampoo once in a while, though . . .

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/16/2006 11:26:33 PM
Author: Mara
i have naturally curly hair, but i chemically straighten it...though it doesn''t take all the curl out, it just makes it WAY cuter and more manageable if i decide to leave it wavy, which i do sometimes. it''s such a different look. i have seriously curly hair originally.

and oh man i have some college pix from before i straigthened and i had some SERIOUS hair going on. i have a ton of hair so it''s always been big but it seemed like it was biggest then. hahah.

I''m the QUEEN of big hair--my life''s quest has been to calm my hair down. The no-shampoo thing has calmed it way down--even makes it seem less thick, which wouldn''t be a plus for a lot of people, but let me tell ya I love it. I really do have a "nice" curl, not a seriously problematic frizz, not to be immodest or anything

. I get tons of compliments on it and people asking me what products I use or sometimes what kind of rods they used for my perm

. I always feel like I''m fighting it, though, and this makes it more, to use a shampoo commercial word, "manageable".

 

[poptart]

My friend has long thick "boticelli" curls too, and I think she shampoos it once a month, so that works for her. It really doesn''t bother me not to shampoo it, and I can''t go a day without washing it. I still would suggest braiding it at night or something, just so it doesn''t knot. That was one of the best things I ever did, and now it doesn''t break anymore. I was afraid I was going to have to chop mine off too, but luckily that washing routine and not using as much product saved it. How long is your hair now?

Marisa

 

[diamondfan]

Christa, when I lived in L.A. my hair dresser invented this product called Wen. It is a cleansing conditioner. He has tons of celeb clients and sells it now on QVC I think. His philosophy is that the surfactant (sodium laurel sulfate or something) is what is bad...very stripping to the hair. His stuff has botanicals and ingredients that cleanse the hair without lather, and he swears by it. You can google him, it is Chaz Dean Salon (his name is Chaz Dean) and the stuff is becoming very popular...it seems to work and not just on curls...

 

[ladykemma]

yes i follow the "curly girl" routine, although i have never read the book.

my hair cleansing agent is alberto VO5 kiwi and lime conditioner. my hair looks and feels good. i use a pick to get the tangles out and let it be curly. air dry only

edited to add: sometimes conditioner builds up or the ends get crunchy. On that day i use a diluted shampoo. this happens about once a month.

moisturizing conditioners may get too cloying, or you may want to play around with the sooper cheap vo5. watch out for the ones with protein, which make hair crunchy.

VO5 "free me freesia" protein makes my hair crunchy.
suave green stuff that smells like aloe very - pretty good
VO5 tickle me tangerine also good.

emliminating shampoo from my daily life has enabled me to grow beyond bra strap length. now it is at waistband.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 10/16/2006 11:26:33 PM
Author: Mara
why wouldn't you just wash with shampoo then condition?? i don't know if i could not shampoo!

i have naturally curly hair, but i chemically straighten it...though it doesn't take all the curl out, it just makes it WAY cuter and more manageable if i decide to leave it wavy, which i do sometimes. it's such a different look. i have seriously curly hair originally.

and oh man i have some college pix from before i straigthened and i had some SERIOUS hair going on. i have a ton of hair so it's always been big but it seemed like it was biggest then. hahah.

i used to think the same thing. then i tried it. it worked!

when you do this you go through a lot of conditioner. I dilute my VO5 kiwi and lime conditioner by half. I go through about 1/3 - 1/2 bottle of diluted VO5 conditioner each wash. scrub scrub scrub your scalp, rinse rinse rinse, longer than you think.

this doesn't work with greasy conditioners, only the super light cheap runny ones. "clarifying" conditioner.

 

[ladykemma]

i forgot.

on the long hair community forum there is great controversy over whether you should use conditioner with "cones" in them. the silicones tend to give hair a lot of slip and make your hair look good for today, but mask damage, cause build up, and cause major problems in the long run.

i am in the "no cones" camp. no floor wax here!

 

[eks6426]

I have long, naturally curly hair. My hair is about 2" above my bra strap. It''s not the boticelli curls though...more wavy than truly curly. I started using the Ouidad curl system with the deep conditioner that is done with heat. I normally used to wash my hair every other day or so. Now, it''s probably once per week. The Ouidad shampoo is very mild and my hair doesn''t feel dirty as quickly.

I am considering trying to not wash it for a month. LadyKemma--good to know on using the cheaper conditioner. The stuff I have now is super thick and I know that would never work. I''ve also heard that the silicone in products is bad so I don''t use that either.

My hair is very color treated.....go from medium brown to blonde with highlights. Not washing it much definately has helped keep it in better condition. I pretty much air dry my hair at night. I do admit to using the curling iron on occasion to help even out the curls.

 

[BZ]

Ok, maybe this is a stupid question, but here goes. If you only use conditioner when you wash your hair, do you continue to use your regular products when styling, i.e. mousse or curly hair lotion?

 

[VegasAngel]

If you dont shampoo how is all the oil/conditioner that is inevitably building up getting washed out? If I take a shower & not use soap I am not going to be clean. My guess & of course I am not an expect is that it is the built up oil & conditioner that is making your hair less frizzy more curly etc... I cant go more than 2 days washing my hair before my scalp smells.

 

[DonaBella]

Wow...this thread is very interesting. I have naturally curly/wavy hair. I haven''t read the book mentioned in this thread, but now want to. I usually wash my hair twice a week, conditioning everyday , in the shower instead of shampooing everyday. My stylist tells me that my hair is in exceptional condition and has commented that I am doing what I should for my scalp.

I use a deep intensive hair mask twice a week for about 3-5 minutes while in the shower. If I go and work out, I HAVE to wash my hair with shampoo. For me, not washing it after sweating alot is too nasty. If I work out too close to when I just shampooed, I leave in the hair mask for about ten minutes and then rinse out, making sure to put in a leave-in conditioning hair milk as I already do each day.

I concentrate the conditioners for leaving in on the last 2 inches of my hair. For me, this dissuades tangles and knots, which curly/wavy hair is more prone to. I love the scent and feel it leaves in my hair. It doesn''t hurt that my husband and sons love to touch my hair cuz it smells and feels so good.

With curly hair, for me, finding the right hair stylist who knows curly/wavy hair and can advise you accordingly. I have had many a bad haircut and bad or incorrect advise given to me for the specific needs that curly/wavy hair needs. Occasionally, I like to use a paddle brush and straighten or blow out my hair and lessen to the curl to more of a bouncy look and my hair stylist taught me how to do it correctly with the least damage to my hair.

I look at older pics of me and cringe at the hair in those photos...yuck! Now, I am older, wiser and look not too bad thanks to learning how to care for my curly/wavy hair...

 

[poptart]

DeannaBana,

I do kind of the same thing as you. I put conditioner in my hair when I first get in the shower, and then leave it on until I''m done washing etc. and rinse it out. I personally like not using shampoo because my hair doesn''t feel so dry and it''s still clean and smells good. I try to use stuff with tea tree oil in it because that is a natural cleanser, and then I don''t feel so weird about not using shampoo.

Marisa

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/17/2006 12:01:15 PM
Author: VegasAngel
If you dont shampoo how is all the oil/conditioner that is inevitably building up getting washed out? If I take a shower & not use soap I am not going to be clean. My guess & of course I am not an expect is that it is the built up oil & conditioner that is making your hair less frizzy more curly etc... I cant go more than 2 days washing my hair before my scalp smells.

I think you're probably right that the "build-up" helps. The premise of the book is that shampoo contains detergents that strip too many oils from your har and damage the cuticle. I've only gone a few days so far, but I'm thinking I might try shampooing once a week or so to make sure all the hair gel and whatever else gets removed. BZ, yeah, I have still been using my usual spray gel, though it takes less and so my hair ends up a lot less sticky/crunchy. The Curly Girl book recomomends spray gel, which is what I've used for years anyway.

I was really skeptical about how clean my hair could get without shampoo, but I stand under the shower and let it rinse through really well, and then work the conditioner through and scrub my scalp with that. It really does look, feel and smell clean, and I'm very sensitive to the itchy scalp feeling or the icky hair smell.

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/17/2006 6:14:25 AM
Author: ladykemma
i forgot.

on the long hair community forum there is great controversy over whether you should use conditioner with ''cones'' in them. the silicones tend to give hair a lot of slip and make your hair look good for today, but mask damage, cause build up, and cause major problems in the long run.

i am in the ''no cones'' camp. no floor wax here!

The book talks about "cons" too, and there is also something about if you MUST use shampoo what ingredients to avoid there.

I think it was Poptart who asked how long my hair is --it''s past my shoulders now. Probably bra stra length when the curl is stretched out, several inches shorter when unstretched.

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/17/2006 12:16:16 PM
Author: DeannaBana

If I go and work out, I HAVE to wash my hair with shampoo. For me, not washing it after sweating alot is too nasty.

That''s what I thought, but like I said, I decided to try it over the weekend when I wasn''t going anywhere . . . I work up a good sweat every morning but rinsing well and scrubbing with the conditioner really seems to get even the sweaty scalp clean. Seriously, if you think about it, it wasn''t that long ago that washing your hair once a week was the norm and I don''t think everyone went around stinky and greasy (OK, some did, but not all

). We''re just so used to the idea of lathering up our hair every day.

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/17/2006 12:51:50 AM
Author: diamondfan
Christa, when I lived in L.A. my hair dresser invented this product called Wen. It is a cleansing conditioner. He has tons of celeb clients and sells it now on QVC I think. His philosophy is that the surfactant (sodium laurel sulfate or something) is what is bad...very stripping to the hair. His stuff has botanicals and ingredients that cleanse the hair without lather, and he swears by it. You can google him, it is Chaz Dean Salon (his name is Chaz Dean) and the stuff is becoming very popular...it seems to work and not just on curls...

Thanks for the recommendation, Diamondfan. I did find it, and unfortunately it's $28 for a 16 oz bottle.

I love the idea, though. The book says the same thing, that sodium lauryl sulfate is the harshest detergent ingredient (check your shampoo bottle!), ammonium laureth sulfate is also bad, and sodium laureth sulfate (which my Suave Humectant has, yay) is better.

 

[eks6426]

Did you know that sodium laurel sulfate is used to de-ice planes?

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 10/17/2006 9:52:37 AM
Author: BZ
Ok, maybe this is a stupid question, but here goes. If you only use conditioner when you wash your hair, do you continue to use your regular products when styling, i.e. mousse or curly hair lotion?

no products, no heat drying, no implements. just hair sticks

hair gets washed and goes straight into a chignon bun at the nape of neck. secured with two german silver hairsticks. slicked with boar bristle brush to get sleekness.

 

[anchor31]

I have very curly hair too and I wonder... Wouldn''t using only conditionner weigh down your hair and lose the curls?

 

[ladykemma]

here's the back of my head. boy, that photograph was hard to do in reverse in the bathroom mirror.
clean enough for ya?

 

[ladykemma]

side view. what i wanted you to see was that is it thick and healthy all the way to the ends.

edited to add: i have baby fine, wavy hair, eliminating shampoo from daily use has got me this far. before i was stuck wirh frazzled, nasty, damaged,dry ends at bra strap length.

 

[sunkist]

I have very curly hair. It's taken me a long time to love it (ok even sometimes still I hate it

). I've seen that book before, Christa, but I never knew they told you not to wash your hair! I do think that shampoo can be damaging to curly hair, but so can suffocating your scalp with oils, conditioner build up, and mineral build up. I wash my hair with shampoo every 2 or 3 days. And if I don't shampoo I at least condition every other day.

About 3 years ago I got hooked on OUIDAD products. I also use a deep conditioner w/ heat, a leave in conditioner, and a gel for styling. I use their CurlQuench line and I love it the best. The gel doesn't flake or get cruchy.

My hair stylist has been bugging me to use a line called Kerastase. I finally bought it, but I haven't use it yet. Has anyone else used this line for curly hair??? I just dont' like to use a new product and end up with ugly hair for a day

I think one of the biggest things about not having frizzy hair is evenly distributing enough styling product through all of your hair. Cause if you miss one bit of hair, it will get frizzy and that will make your whole head look frizzy.

 

[diane5006]

I am soo going ot have to check this out...

My most frustrating this is getting my products all figured out...then moving and having different water harder/softer

Now I have the worlds softest water...really annoying...if I do the cond only thing...I will have to use just a bit

In the past I have had luck with the shampoo/cond combo..and a leave in

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/18/2006 11:33:46 PM
Author: sunkist
I have very curly hair. It''s taken me a long time to love it (ok even sometimes still I hate it

). I''ve seen that book before, Christa, but I never knew they told you not to wash your hair! I do think that shampoo can be damaging to curly hair, but so can suffocating your scalp with oils, conditioner build up, and mineral build up. I wash my hair with shampoo every 2 or 3 days. And if I don''t shampoo I at least condition every other day.

About 3 years ago I got hooked on OUIDAD products. I also use a deep conditioner w/ heat, a leave in conditioner, and a gel for styling. I use their CurlQuench line and I love it the best. The gel doesn''t flake or get cruchy.

My hair stylist has been bugging me to use a line called Kerastase. I finally bought it, but I haven''t use it yet. Has anyone else used this line for curly hair??? I just dont'' like to use a new product and end up with ugly hair for a day

I think one of the biggest things about not having frizzy hair is evenly distributing enough styling product through all of your hair. Cause if you miss one bit of hair, it will get frizzy and that will make your whole head look frizzy.

Definitely. I tried "conditioner washing" with my usual super-moisturizing conditioner and it was a frizzy over-conditioned mess. It worked much better when I took it down a notch. There''s tons of discussion about this at naturallycurly.com, if anyone''s interested in checking it out.

 

[diamondfan]

Kerastase is a nice line, do you have the yellow packaging? My salon uses it fairly exclusively...it works well overall.

 

[sunkist]

No, I have the orange line. I got a shampoo, conditioner, mouse and a lotion. I guess I haven''t used it yet because I''m sort of put off by the mousse. I don''t think I''ll like it.... I guess I''ll just try it since I spent a bunch of money on it!