Any architectural historian out there?

[megeve]

Hi

Or any PSers who can tell me the style of this house? I think it is georgian but I am not sure!

If it helps, this house is built in 1876!

 

[Jennifer W]

I'm not an architectural historian, but I am married to one... DH specialised in refurbishment of historic buildings when he was in private practice and I think I've absorbed some of his passion for them. (I've certainly heard plenty about them....)

This is a Victorian building, from the date of construction, but it's using some elements of earlier Georgian detailing. A Georgian town house would typically be a little less decorated, with a simpler elevation. The curved stone detail for example looks more Victorian than Georgian to me. Georgian buildings (in the UK, anyway) tend to be very symmetrical, and simply square or rectangular in elevation. Elevations would typically be flat, with no bay windows, balconies etc. Where there is a curved detail, it is typically not picked out in a decorative style (eg just flat ashlar stone or brickwork rather than a raised stone detail).

The other possibility (unless you know the date for certain) is that it is an older Georgian building that's been fancied up by the Victorians. That happened a lot - they took a fairly austere and plain 'square' Georgian house, usually a town house, then added bay windows, twiddly stone detail and mouldings, balconies, all sorts of decorative and functional additions. Because the additions have been there for such a long time, they are fairly evenly weathered and can look original, particularly if the same building materials were available.

Some speculative build Victorian houses were actually created to look like that - an established older home that had been modernised (British people are uniquely suspicious of new buildings and new money ). So, they are built in a basic Georgian style, but more highly decorated, and with the latest fashionable additions such as bay windows, decorative stone work mouldings and of course porches (which would only have appeared on the very grandest of Georgian homes).

As I said, I'm not an expert, so there's always the caveat that I could be completely wrong, and I will ask J when he gets home for some actual knowledge rather than my enthusiastic amateur speculation

eta just curious, where is the house? It looks like a lot of the Victorian buildings in Glasgow. Merchants' homes. They are beautiful!

 

[Pandora II]

Ditto Jen on everything. I lived in a Georgian repro - but very faithful to the originals - and I studied architectural design as part of my degree.

I would say that the photograph shows a Victorian house with some elements of Georgian and neoclassical influence but not done with the Georgian proportions.

 

[JewelFreak]

I add my "ditto" too. Victorian in proportion & decoration w/some Georgian details. In the U.S. Georgian houses, plantations, say, sometimes had balconies or curved rotundas -- kind of Georgian/Federal -- but they tended to restrained ornamentation & exact symmetry.

--- Laurie

 

[megeve]

Hiya Jennifer

I don't think your speculation is an enthusiastic amateur thought! Your DH has certainly taught you well! Wow, I would love to pick his brain!

Now I know why I can't pinpoint the era of this achitectural build. Your speculation makes sense that it might be a georgian fancied up with victorian decorative ornamental mouldings and stone details. However, I am very certain about the year of built. At the right side of townhouse, you can see the top structure of the side building with rectangular shape stone framing. In it reads the roman numerals 'MDCCCLXXVI' and I have seen the original document in the Townhall archive stating that a doctor had bought this piece of land and was building (with floor plan) this house in 1876. The floor plan showed the ground floor area with rooms for the practice/waiting room and upstairs for the private quarters and the top floor most probably for the servants (at that time) as in the pic, you can see a tower behind the right side building with a rounded black roof shingles. In this tower, we found damaged staircase only going right up to the top floor!

This townhouse is in Hamburg, Germany, right in the middle of the city. It was a miracle that this house survived WW2. The house left of it was totally bombed out and the house right of it (an identical twin of this house), the 2 top floors were destroyed! To saved money, owner at that time just put a roof on top of the remains!

Well, it would be great if your DH could provide more specific knowledge on this! I am so into old achitectural homes at the moment. Hamburg has also full of beautiful Art Nouveau townhouses in the city!

 

[megeve]

pandora, thanks for your insights!

The real estate agent told us that its neoclassical but he wasn't sure. I was not totally convinced as I thought it might be more georgian because of the 4 pillars structure in front of the bay windows! But what do I know!

Wow, pandora, thats an interesting study, architectural design! Do you happen to have a pic of your building? would love to see it! But if you don't feel comfortable, then just ignore this request!

 

[megeve]

Thanks JewelFreak for chiming in!

LOL, there are so many architectural styles in this house, is there a specific name for this mixture of styles???

 

[Jennifer W]

Thanks JewelFreak for chiming in!

LOL, there are so many architectural styles in this house, is there a specific name for this mixture of styles???

Eclectic? I don't know! I'll ask J to take a look at the picture when he gets home, and see what he can tell you about it. I think he talks about this stuff when I'm sleeping, so I absorb it whether I want to or not....

Do you have specific queries? Is this a home you're thinking about buying? Because I suppose that means the things to check out are quite different to things that are just of general interest about the building.

It is lovely!

 

[Pandora II]

pandora, thanks for your insights!

The real estate agent told us that its neoclassical but he wasn't sure. I was not totally convinced as I thought it might be more georgian because of the 4 pillars structure in front of the bay windows! But what do I know!

Wow, pandora, thats an interesting study, architectural design! Do you happen to have a pic of your building? would love to see it! But if you don't feel comfortable, then just ignore this request!

I studied Textile Design, but a huge number of textile designers were also architects and so most of the 40% art history component of the degree was spent studying architecture.

Most of my life has been spent living in old houses - from the wing of an 11th Century Abbey to a 500 year old house with later addition - and I've always been interested in architecture.

I'd prefer not to post a photo of my house, but it's in the style of Sir John Soane - one of my favourite Georgian architects. Huge windows, perfect Palladian proportions, very austere decorative features and classic Soanean brick-work.

There are definite neo-classical influence in the picture you posted - the arched windows, the garland designs, the overall 'look' owes much to Greek/Roman design.

 

[JewelFreak]

From the date, it definitely was built in Victorian times. Its basic height to footprint ratio looks Victorian: they tend to have more height to floor area than earlier styles, if you look at a Victorian room compared to a Georgian or Federal one. Georgian houses had a more square appearance & decoration was restrained & flat to the house surface -- like this:

Door surround is straight, not curved; no round windows, no shutters. Total symmetry overall. Georgian style is angular & square. Double chimneys, low roof.

You may be thinking of Federal style, which grew out of Georgian & was a little more ornate & graceful:

Federal (or Adam) has more curves & graceful decoration: balustrades, dentile molding, Palladian and elliptical windows, some neo-classical carvings. Low roof, side lights & shutters on the door.

Your house in the photo actually looks generally Second Empire in its proportions:

Taller compared to general floor area. Second Empire was a time of jubilant architecture -- many elements borrowed from earlier forms (curved windows, balustrades, dentile molding, round arches), along with projecting overhangs, square porches & sometimes Mansard roofs. Kind of "if you love it, put it on!" Second Empire began in France & in the U.S. maintained that French influence -- this house could be in Paris, from its looks.

It's a very pretty house -- yours?

 

[megeve]

Thanks JewelFreak for chiming in!

LOL, there are so many architectural styles in this house, is there a specific name for this mixture of styles???

Eclectic? I don't know! I'll ask J to take a look at the picture when he gets home, and see what he can tell you about it. I think he talks about this stuff when I'm sleeping, so I absorb it whether I want to or not....

Do you have specific queries? Is this a home you're thinking about buying? Because I suppose that means the things to check out are quite different to things that are just of general interest about the building.

It is lovely!

Yah, we are playing with the idea! However, we are just starting so we will be looking at a lot more houses! Any pointers or checklist we need to have for buying old houses?

 

[megeve]

pandora, thanks for your insights!

The real estate agent told us that its neoclassical but he wasn't sure. I was not totally convinced as I thought it might be more georgian because of the 4 pillars structure in front of the bay windows! But what do I know!

Wow, pandora, thats an interesting study, architectural design! Do you happen to have a pic of your building? would love to see it! But if you don't feel comfortable, then just ignore this request!

I studied Textile Design, but a huge number of textile designers were also architects and so most of the 40% art history component of the degree was spent studying architecture.

Most of my life has been spent living in old houses - from the wing of an 11th Century Abbey to a 500 year old house with later addition - and I've always been interested in architecture.

I'd prefer not to post a photo of my house, but it's in the style of Sir John Soane - one of my favourite Georgian architects. Huge windows, perfect Palladian proportions, very austere decorative features and classic Soanean brick-work.

There are definite neo-classical influence in the picture you posted - the arched windows, the garland designs, the overall 'look' owes much to Greek/Roman design.

Don't worry, I do understand!

From your description, I can just imagine this building in front of me! Nice!

 

[megeve]

Wow, JewelFreak, your write up is very enlighting! I have never heard of Second Empire! From google information, it should have mansard roof but this house doesn't have it! Maybe an Italianate? This house has the similar 4 corinthian columned porche/bay and a flat roof which has a roof terrace on it. Will try to read up more! Thanks!

Na, just playing with the idea and also the best way to get to see the inside of such era homes is to go with real estate agents!

 

[JewelFreak]

Great idea, Megeve. I LOVE old houses too. Would give an arm to see inside some of them. I think eclectic is the best description of this house -- it has elements of neoclassical, 2nd Empire, Italianate. Without seeing a pic of the front, can't say more.

I read a lot of antique house websites & blogs & get Preservation magazine. They all say to have an old house inspected before closing by an inspector w/expertise in antique houses. There are potential problems they spot that regular inspectors don't catch. If he suggests it, or you feel the need, it doesn't hurt to get a contractor with the same experience to take a look too -- some specialize in old houses & can give you an idea of what repairs, renovations, or changes might cost. You can google antique-house inspectors -- or whenever you get to that point -- it's worth the price to join Angie's List, where they've done the research on licensing & you get recommendations (good or bad) from people who've used them.

Wish I could come looking with you! What a blast that would be.

--- Laurie

 

[TristanC]

And... I learn something new once again. This is exactly why I keep hanging around here. And people keep asking, do you buy THAT much jewelry??

 

[megeve]

JewelFreak, we certainly would have a blast! Esp. when one of us (you) have a good knowledge of what to look for and what to discover!

Would you care to share some good websites address for the antique house forum/blogs? Do you by any chance have a period house? Just curious, as you are so into it!

Thanks for the tips about inspectors and Angies list. Will Look into them when the time comes!

 

[megeve]

Tristan, are you in the wrong thread?

I do have too much jewelry but I still need an antique house! (Not cushion)

 

[Jennifer W]

So, I didn't get a chance to ask DH last night, but I emailed the photo of the house and asked a) what he could tell us about the architectural style and b) what to ask a surveyor to check out if you were thinking of buying it.

I'm sorry, I didn't tell him the date or location (forgot to add that to my email) but even so, hopefully this will help:

Looks like neoclassic: late C19th or early C20th -what we would call late Victorian or Edwardian: say 1880s-1910 period. Could be earlier C19th-hard to tell from the photo, and could be an earlier building which was 'modernised' in external appearance in late C19th. If we know where it was it would help date it, as a remote area will be 'behind the times' in style compared to metropolitan areas.

Very hard to tell anything from this photo! Surveyor should know what to look for in terms of structure and services, etc. which are not visible in a small photo. As far as I can see, it looks in good condition: no cracks visible, but perhaps some staining at eaves level indicating minor roof drainage problem? If there is a flat roof, (looks like there may be) then its condition and materials used in external waterproof layer may be significant. Also blocked gutters/downpipes which may be internal and hidden from view. Also the cupola at the rear of photo if this is part of the same house. Lush garden planting many be too near to walls of building and be about to cause/causing physical damage to building or indirect damage through trapping water.

I don't know if they have equivalent of listed buildings/conservation areas in Germany. There may be a requirement to keep historic buildings in good repair in some parts of the country, which would lend confidence about the building but also may mean compulsion to maintain properly and create restrictions on what can be done with/to it.

 

[Hera]

It looks to be an early predecessor to the Beaux Art movement which was Neoclassical with an eclectic nature. Here's an example:

 

[megeve]

Thanks Jennifer and you DH for the feedback! He nails it down to the era and style even without knowing when and location!

Thanks for the pointers too! I wll have them all checked out before making final decisions!

You guys are the best, what do I do without PS!

 

[megeve]

Thanks Heraanderson for chiming in!

Yes, I have seen this when I googled 'second empire'. It does look abit like neoclassical with eclectic nature, doesn't it?

 

[JewelFreak]

Sorry, Megeve, I assumed it was in the U.S. when I suggested Angie's List. You asked about info on antique houses. This site is very helpful:

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/

Another one I like: http://www.preservationdirectory.com/HistoricalPreservation/Home.aspx

Both have links to useful info.

One important suggestion when you buy an old house: Bring Money! From my family's experience living in a 150-yr-old terrific place when I was a kid, something is always going wrong. They are expensive to maintain. Frequently the purchase price looks great, usually because it needs so much put into it, even if it's in fairly good shape. But a good old-house inspector will advise you on exactly what.

Would love to see more pics of the house, especially if you make an offer. Looks interesting!

--- Laurie

 

[megeve]

Sorry, Megeve, I assumed it was in the U.S. when I suggested Angie's List. You asked about info on antique houses. This site is very helpful:

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/

Another one I like: http://www.preservationdirectory.com/HistoricalPreservation/Home.aspx

Both have links to useful info.

One important suggestion when you buy an old house: Bring Money! From my family's experience living in a 150-yr-old terrific place when I was a kid, something is always going wrong. They are expensive to maintain. Frequently the purchase price looks great, usually because it needs so much put into it, even if it's in fairly good shape. But a good old-house inspector will advise you on exactly what.

Would love to see more pics of the house, especially if you make an offer. Looks interesting!

--- Laurie

Thank you Laurie for the links! I am going to check them out now!

Will certainly post more pics if we make an offer!