Another one for the grammar junkies

[amc80]

I just got an email asking about fees associated with a product. No problem. Except the person wrote "fee's" instead of fees. Three times. I can barely concentrate on what the email is asking because the apostrophe is so freaking distracting. I see that a lot- people putting apostrophes where they don't belong, mainly when they are making a vowel-ending word plural.

For the language experts on here- any thoughts on why this happens? Is it just a matter of not fully understanding the rules, or is there a common misconception of the rule going on? Or, if anyone on here does that, could you explain the reasoning? I'm genuinely curious.

It drives me batty.

 

[minousbijoux]

You know, I wish stuff like that didn't bother me either, but it drives me to distraction! How can I take what they're saying seriously when they can't take the time to spell properly and use correct grammar? What other mistakes will they have in the financial calculations/presentation/legal document? I know its harsh, but I just don't feel comfortable after something like that.

 

[VapidLapid]

they's ignant,

 

[AGBF]

I just got an email asking about fees associated with a product. No problem. Except the person wrote "fee's" instead of fees. Three times. I can barely concentrate on what the email is asking because the apostrophe is so freaking distracting. I see that a lot- people putting apostrophes where they don't belong, mainly when they are making a vowel-ending word plural.

For the language experts on here- any thoughts on why this happens? Is it just a matter of not fully understanding the rules, or is there a common misconception of the rule going on? Or, if anyone on here does that, could you explain the reasoning? I'm genuinely curious.

It drives me batty.

My opinion is that the writers who use apostrophes at random have a vague recall of having once studied that they were used in writing and feel that they should sprinkle them into a few plural words from time to time. I think it's a matter of, "better safe than sorry". I mean, one wouldn't want to be caught failing to use an apostrophe when one was needed, would one?

Deb/AGBF

 

[amc80]

My opinion is that the writers who use apostrophes at random have a vague recall of having once studied that they were used in writing and feel that they should sprinkle them into a few plural words from time to time. I think it's a matter of, "better safe than sorry". I mean, one wouldn't want to be caught failing to use an apostrophe when one was needed, would one?

Deb/AGBF

See, if they fail to use one I can assume they simply forgot. Using one incorrectly is just....wrong.

 

[Maisie]

I suppose not everyone is as well educated as others....other's.... well you know what I mean

 

[amc80]

I suppose not everyone is as well educated as others....other's.... well you know what I mean

Like!

But seriously, isn't this learned in elementary school? And then used over and over throughout middle/high school? It's not as if we're talking about an obscure math rule or something.

 

[Laila619]

That drives me crazy, too! What do the fees own?!

 

[JewelFreak]

isn't this learned in elementary school? And then used over and over throughout middle/high school?

Not any more. They don' teach no stinkin' grammar no more. It bores li'l Johnny & Sally. Thass why they cain't not spell.

 

[VRBeauty]

I agree with Deb... most people don't remember the basic rules where apostrophes are concerned, and end up using either "when in doubt, don't" or "when in doubt, do" as a default.

I know it's harsh, but I just don't feel comfortable after something like that.

Which also serves as a reminder that the basic rules can actually get pretty convoluted.

 

[Matata]

isn't this learned in elementary school? And then used over and over throughout middle/high school?

Not any more. They don' teach no stinkin' grammar no more. It bores li'l Johnny & Sally. Thass why they cain't not spell.

OMG OMG WTH R U sayin' what i think your sayin' that we R dum & skoolses doesn''''''t'''' teech R kidz good no more

 

[distracts]

You know, I wish stuff like that didn't bother me either, but it drives me to distraction! How can I take what they're saying seriously when they can't take the time to spell properly and use correct grammar? What other mistakes will they have in the financial calculations/presentation/legal document? I know it's harsh, but I just don't feel comfortable after something like that.

Ditto. If there's just one that could potentially be a typo, and it's in a correspondence like an email or something, it's fine, but I've seen so many documents just riddled with egregious errors. On the campaign I worked on this year, I had to send everything our consultants sent us back to them with spelling/grammar corrections. It was insane. These people were paid $40k for an incredibly tiny amount of work and managed to pepper grammar errors throughout our lit pieces, some of which had gone to print that way before I joined the campaign and so were that way all cycle. Totally unprofessional. Wouldn't be surprised if it lost us votes.

 

[kefira]

I agree with AGBF that people have a recollection that there are apostrophe rules, but no real idea/memory of how to implement said rules. Typos can be easily forgiven, but repeated misuse can be distracting or cause miscommunication.

Pluralized abbreviations using 's (e.g. "FAQ's") drive me up the wall. I know that there are those who say that this is now fine to do, but, no, it is not. I tend to use this as litmus test of sorts, especially when checking out a company's website or printed materials.

 

[JewelFreak]

I've never heard anyone say it's fine to do. Maybe the dummies who do it? Grammar exists to make expression clear. A friend asked me to check over a cover letter she wrote -- honestly, I couldn't figure out what she was trying to say. Had to ask her; then suggest re-writes so it made sense. If you can't express your thoughts clearly, how can you even think logically?

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Ugh.... I got halfway thru your original post and had to stop for a sec cuz it bothers me soooo much. Fee's??? Sigh....

 

[amc80]

Ugh.... I got halfway thru your original post and had to stop for a sec cuz it bothers me soooo much. Fee's??? Sigh....

Right???

Continuing right along in this topic-
Our whole company (umm, around 1500 of us at this location) received an email about a special Costco party thing, just for us. I opened the attachment. At the very top, in big bold letters:

YOUR INVITED

Cringe.

 

[kefira]

I've never heard anyone say it's fine to do. Maybe the dummies who do it? [snip]

I'm quite sure you are right!

 

[amc80]

That damn Costco flyer is hanging all over the building. I'm very tempted to take my red pen and make the edit....

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Ugh.... I got halfway thru your original post and had to stop for a sec cuz it bothers me soooo much. Fee's??? Sigh....

Right???

Continuing right along in this topic-
Our whole company (umm, around 1500 of us at this location) received an email about a special Costco party thing, just for us. I opened the attachment. At the very top, in big bold letters:

YOUR INVITED

Cringe.

Noooooooooooo.......! Ugh.... I threw up a little in my mouth.

 

[Haven]

I believe this happens because people spend more time reading poorly written text today than ever before. We spend a lot of time reading text today, but most of it is published without the benefit of an editor's red pen--text messages, Facebook posts, Internet* forums*, blog articles, self-published e-books, etc., etc. Ten years ago we did not spend as much time reading text, but the text we did read was more likely to have been edited before it was sent out into the world.

I've posted this all over PS, but I can't resist sharing it again. If you're in this thread, you'll probably appreciate this blog post:
hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

The one common error that does irk me is when published pieces misuse i.e. or e.g. There is a difference, and if you are publishing an article in a magazine or journal, you should be aware of it. (Or, your editor should be aware of it!)

Honestly, though, I don't generally fuss over such errors because I know I make them, myself. And I also know that when I make the error, that doesn't mean I don't understand that it's incorrect, it just means that I was too lazy to check my own writing.

I did notice a surprising error this morning, actually. DH and I bought a Moby Wrap, which is basically a very expensive long piece of cloth for babywearing. The back page of the instructions booklet uses affect when it should use effect. I was surprised to see such an error on printed material for an otherwise very well-done product.

*And yes, it is correct to capitalize Internet because it is a proper noun, and in American English we do not use the Latin plural for forum. So put those red pens away!

 

[VapidLapid]

Them's shud eet more grammar crackers.

 

[amc80]

I've posted this all over PS, but I can't resist sharing it again. If you're in this thread, you'll probably appreciate this blog post:
hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

That's great! Hahaha

So the next time you are reading along and you see some guy ranting about how he is "alot better at swimming than Michael Phelps," instead of getting angry, you can be like "You're right! Alots are known for their superior swimming capabilities."

 

[distracts]

If you can't express your thoughts clearly, how can you even think logically?

I find most people DON'T think logically.

(Also i.e. and e.g. UGH. Id est and exempli gratia. NOT EVEN REMOTELY THE SAME MEANING. Could SO EASILY be solved by more people knowing latin!)

 

[star sparkle]

There's a guy in my office who frequently sends out emails to the entire office. Most people, when doing this, start it simply with "All, blah blah blah blah" and continue on with whatever they want to say. This guy, however, starts every office-wide email with "Et. al., blah blah blah blah" and it DRIVES ME NUTS! I know he's doing it because he thinks it makes him seem smart, but talk about an epic failure.

 

[Enerchi]

isn't this learned in elementary school? And then used over and over throughout middle/high school?

Not any more. They don' teach no stinkin' grammar no more. It bores li'l Johnny & Sally. Thass why they cain't not spell.

OMG OMG WTH R U sayin' what i think your sayin' that we R dum & skoolses doesn''''''t'''' teech R kidz good no more

Priceless!!! You guys are awesome at this!

Yes indeed, there are some serious grammar issues out there and it always surprises me! Well, I guess at this point, no, it does NOT surprise me, but it sure amazes me in this day and age, spell check being what it is, that people do make such huge gaffe's!

 

[ksinger]

All of the above, to which I would add, we have SO many weird words and acronyms that we use as nouns. What do you do with them?

"How many DFL (pluralize this) were put in the system today?" This is rightly capitalized because it is an acronym. So, do I add a "s" on the end? If so, capital S or lowercase?

DFLS - well, that could be a completely different acronym.

DFLs - that just looks...silly, at least to me.

DFL's - it doesn't imply possession and everyone reading it would know that, but it looks...better.

This is the sort of stuff I deal with ALL.the.time. I'm certain it bleeds over into where is shouldn't.

I also find - strictly for myself - that I am making more typos these days because various fonts I use are too small....FB is bad about this. I find myself peering and squinting at the screen going, "Is that two l's and an i or just one??" Frustrating. (Notice my apostrophe after the letter "l". Maybe someone can trot out a hard, fast rule of which I'm unaware on how to deal with these issues?)

 

[zoebartlett]

I JUST introduced singular possessive nouns this week and we'll be working on plural possessives soon (I teach 2nd grade). It drives me nuts when I see adults use apostrophes incorrectly. At some point they learned how but never really used them properly, and now it's become a [bad] habit.

 

[kefira]

[snip]Yes indeed, there are some serious grammar issues out there and it always surprises me! Well, I guess at this point, no, it does NOT surprise me, but it sure amazes me in this day and age, spell check being what it is, that people do make such huge gaffe's!

Not to pick on you, Enerchi, but this is precisely what we are discussing. Or was this a little joke on your part?

All of the above, to which I would add, we have SO many weird words and acronyms that we use as nouns. What do you do with them?

"How many DFL (pluralize this) were put in the system today?" This is rightly capitalized because it is an acronym. So, do I add a "s" on the end? If so, capital S or lowercase?

DFLS - well, that could be a completely different acronym.

DFLs - that just looks...silly, at least to me.

DFL's - it doesn't imply possession and everyone reading it would know that, but it looks...better.

This is the sort of stuff I deal with ALL.the.time. I'm certain it bleeds over into where is shouldn't.

I also find - strictly for myself - that I am making more typos these days because various fonts I use are too small....FB is bad about this. I find myself peering and squinting at the screen going, "Is that two l's and an i or just one??" Frustrating. (Notice my apostrophe after the letter "l". Maybe someone can trot out a hard, fast rule of which I'm unaware on how to deal with these issues?)

An acronym is an abbreviation said as a word (e.g. FUBAR). Although I don't know what DFL stands for in your example, it looks like an initialism (where you say each letter individually). Your second guess for pluralizing it is correct, however strange is may look to you. "DFL's" does read as a possessive.

Also, you can set a minimum font size in most browsers. Take a look through the options, and save your eyes!

Edited for quote issues.

 

[JewelFreak]

it does NOT surprise me, but it sure amazes me in this day and age, spell check being what it is, that people do make such huge gaffe's!

lol. Spell check is more bother than it's worth to me. I have it turned off.

I'd go with DFLs, KSinger. The acronym is used in place of a noun so should take a regular plural. It looks silly until you get used to it. You're right that DFLS would be something new & different. I won't even mention an apostrophe.

And yes, YOUR INVITED invites murder or mayhem at least. No educated jury would ever convict. Now, where can we find one? Fire up that red pen.

--- Laurie

 

[zoebartlett]

All of the above, to which I would add, we have SO many weird words and acronyms that we use as nouns. What do you do with them?

"How many DFL (pluralize this) were put in the system today?" This is rightly capitalized because it is an acronym. So, do I add a "s" on the end? If so, capital S or lowercase?

DFLS - well, that could be a completely different acronym.

DFLs - that just looks...silly, at least to me.

DFL's - it doesn't imply possession and everyone reading it would know that, but it looks...better.

This is the sort of stuff I deal with ALL.the.time. I'm certain it bleeds over into where is shouldn't.

I also find - strictly for myself - that I am making more typos these days because various fonts I use are too small....FB is bad about this. I find myself peering and squinting at the screen going, "Is that two l's and an i or just one??" Frustrating. (Notice my apostrophe after the letter "l". Maybe someone can trot out a hard, fast rule of which I'm unaware on how to deal with these issues?)

DFLs. It's incorrect with an apostrophe and as you mentioned, DFLS would stand for something else.