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Another angle addressing the loss of Pave Stones...

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door knob solitaire

Ideal_Rock
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There is a new poll in Rocky Talky regarding the prevailing issue of late...the loss of pave stones. I was hoping to obtain more details regarding this subject.


Those of your replying to this question, if possible, will you describe what type of prong was used in your pave ring?

I was wondering if those who have lost stones...do you have the shared 2 count of metal dots of ''prongs'' between each stone?

I know the description of pave...but some described as pave actually have four prongs per stone. Would four prongs alleviate the loss? I suppose what I am trying to learn is the actual form of pave used in each subject...and if there is a common thread in the design as apposed to the Pave art form itself?



I must decide on my design this week. Any insight would be appreciated , greatly. I am loosing precious time, sleep and sanity. I suppose that last one is questionable in that we really don''t know if I ever had it to loose. Thanks-DKS

 

Mara

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mrssalvo

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DKS-

Bill Pearlman talked about his experience with pave in this thread, the one where ally lost her stone.
He said "I have carried Michael B and Ritani since their entry into the jewelry business and have never had a problem with their workmanship or with diamonds popping out or loosening. The thinnest we carry a e-ring is 1.9mm which is a Ritani. There are Michael B bands as thin a s 1.6mm. None of the designers we have can you press down on a section of the ring and collapse the seating of the diamonds which I suspect has happened here. Generally caused by drilling the seat too deep or the walls around the diamonds were to thin thickness wise. What they all have in common are superior quality control departments so problems are kept to a minimum.

Any diamond can be knocked out of a ring and any diamond can be loosened in a setting. Biggest culprits are working out, house or yard work, clinching the steering wheel of a car to tightly. These all will have a effect on the way a ring holds up. I believe in wearing jewelry where it is appropriate but understand that not everyone will do this. To this I say stay with the brands with the best reputations. They cost more but for those who have them I''m sure most would say that with routine care they never have problems with them. There is so much that goes on in the manufacturing of jewelry that it''s buyer beware. Just using the word pave does not mean that they are all made with the same attention to detail. The designers above are perfect examples of this."


I think this shows a quality ring probably won''t have problems but you will have to be careful and take care of it, baby it a bit. You''ll have to decide if that''s the type of setting you want and if it''s worth it.
 

Odilia

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The appraiser I went to recently said that pave in older (many decades ago) rings was done differently than the new ones (the manner in which the pave was "installed" for lack of a better way to put it), which is why the newer ones seem less secure, whereas some folks have antique rings where the diamonds never fell out. Sounds like from what mrssalvo related that the good designers might be doing a better job. Anyway, I thought I''d throw that in; hope it''s helpful.
 

Shay37

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Back in a sec. I need my loupe for this.

shay
 

Mara

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the other thing to think about is that people now do alot more with their rings on than they may have in the ''old days''..aka early 1900s if someone had $$ to have pave and a big diamond from cartier or similar, they probably weren''t out cleaning their house, making dinner, banging the ring around etc. now the gals who may have a ring like that are probably doing alot more with it, aka living life, cleaning the kitchen, washing dishes etc. so i think that it''s also different lifestyles between now and then as well.
 

Shay37

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Okay, on my ring, under a loupe, it looks like a shared prong ring. The beads are shared, but each diamond has four beads of metal holding it.

shay
 

door knob solitaire

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Thanks everyone. Very informative posts.

Shay...that cracked me up..."back in a sec..." Have you lost any stones?

DKS
 

Kaleigh

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That''s what you''ll be saying if you go with pave. I know you really want it bad, but you also have to ask yourself if it''s worth the worry and the hassle???
 

door knob solitaire

Ideal_Rock
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So the practical everyday wearer...has two options.

Buy the big branded pave...

or wear a pave eternity that can be removed when work is required?

I suppose the thrid is to get a pave but never wear it....


Then I am back to my sleek modern ering...back to square one? Hmmm. Oh poo. I so love the look of all you girls'' pave. It is sooo regal looking. Here I go again I can''t get off the merry go round. My tenth is in 07...the eternity would be fun to get then.

Calgon take me away!!
 

mrssalvo

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DKS- Have you gone and tried on a bunch of pave rings? I think if I just fell in love with it and it was what I had my heart set on, I would figure out a way to make it work. Even it that meant babying it a bit, at least when we went out I''d be really happy and proud of my ring. I think you have to find what you really want and go from there. I''m leaning toward a MM solitaire (this week)hehe, and yes, i''d have to probably send it back to him every year or so for his polish but it would be worth it too me if that''s what I really want..just my .02
 

Melinda

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Aside from the higher end paves (Ritani, etc.), I read in the thread that Leon Mege does a dependable pave. I''m seeing him tonight to discuss my ring, and I really have my heart set on pave, but I simply do not have the time/patience for all sorts of maintence/fear/problems. I feel so conflicted right now.
 

door knob solitaire

Ideal_Rock
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Mrssalvo,

Good advice! Yes I have tried on a few. All the ones I go goo goo over are the high end line Jack kelege, etc. $5 grand is just nutts for a ring upgrade. But as your Pearlman post you cited...the risk of stone setting is minimalized with the higher priced lines. I would go with a Gumchian Fils or Jack Kelege if I didn''t shutter at the price. I still don''t know what size stone I should have been requesting. Are the higher lines using larger stones?

I will not baby anything. I french maincure my natural nails, my self. They need redoing twice a week.

Oh I want it now...but I don''t know what IT is.

Is your MM solitare for you new stone? When are you deciding? Spill the beans!
 

DonaBella

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Date: 11/17/2005 12:13:20 PM
Author: Melinda
Aside from the higher end paves (Ritani, etc.), I read in the thread that Leon Mege does a dependable pave. I''m seeing him tonight to discuss my ring, and I really have my heart set on pave, but I simply do not have the time/patience for all sorts of maintence/fear/problems. I feel so conflicted right now.
I am with you, Melinda...I love the look of pave, especially with milgraining and a center stone like a cushion or an asscher. I also do like the looks of some prong settings...not all but some. Some of the pronged settings look a bit like ones my mother or mother in law would wear and I am not drawn to that look...
 

mrssalvo

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Date: 11/17/2005 12:13:20 PM
Author: Melinda
Aside from the higher end paves (Ritani, etc.), I read in the thread that Leon Mege does a dependable pave. I'm seeing him tonight to discuss my ring, and I really have my heart set on pave, but I simply do not have the time/patience for all sorts of maintence/fear/problems. I feel so conflicted right now.

Melinda,
You might want to PM allycat or read her thread about her Leon pave ring..she's been having a lot of problems. I'd make sure Leon is making the ring himself b/c word is he's not and the quality control isn't quite yet up to high standards...

if you click on the link i posted above, it's part of ally's pave/ring ordeal..
 

Kaleigh

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DKS, someone I think it was Mara said where the pave is on a ring is important for the durablity of it. Maybe compromise and have some pave just not tons?? Does that make any sense?? How are things going with Quest, what are their ideas. Melinda good luck with Leon. Mrssalvo is right, read ally''s thread. Now he doesn''t work on the rings as much and has other bench guys doing it for him. I would insist that he do most of the work.
 

Melinda

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Kaleigh,
Thanks. Since I''ve been following the thread for awhile, I''m aware of the concerns about Leon using his bench men, but I''ve been failing to come up with a way to tell him tonight that I want him to do most of the work (f not all)

How do you say that without seeming impolite? I realize I''m paying a premium for Leon''s work, and that should be reason enough, but I"m afraid I just don''t know how to demand that of him in a way that won''t seem obnoxious or out of line. Now I think I''m just being paranoid. I''m paying (ahem, rather my precious bf is paying) a premium for his services. How do we bring this up?
 

Kaleigh

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I would just be honest and say that you have heard that he isn''t doing most of the work any more and that you really want him to do your ring. Compliment him on his craftmanship and say you want a true Leon ring??
 

Melinda

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That''s such a good, clear, obvious answer. Thank you. When I get nervous or want something really bad I totally lose my tongue.
It''s silly, I know, but that''s why I asked all of you.
 

Kaleigh

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A little sucking up wouldn''t hurt either!!
 

DonaBella

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BTW, I have found that there is so many types of pave that it is a good idea to ask about what kind they use. I am seriously considering a ring set that has French pave that is similar to the old fashioned fishtail kind but more secure and prettier, but I haven''t decided 100% yet cuz I am going between today and Sunday to try on prong settings and pave--both--to see what is truly right for me.

Ring styles, now that I have been actively searching, can be hard. I know now for sure what I definitely like and dislike. The hard part for me is going to be choosing between the two styles I have narrowed my preferences down to.
 

widget

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Hi, Melinda...I know EXACTLY how you feel.

There may be braver people here, but I know I''d have trouble insisting he do the work himself. I can sure see myself letting him know how much I wish he''d do the work, though.


I know I could insist that he personally inspect it before it is sent to me, and I''d tell him of my concerns having followed the PriceScope thread. (I''m sure he is aware of the thread, and has most likely read it.)

I bet he''d very motivated to treat you right...

Good luck!
widget
 

allycat0303

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Well I thnk most of the time Leon checks the work before it is shipped out. As I said my original ring was beautiful (although it was missing a stone), but maybe subsequent adjustements are rare, and therefore less closely inspected. I think that as Leon''s business grows, it becomes more and more difficult for him to work personally on all pieces.

I think you pay a premium for Leon, but I also think you pay a (possibly larger premium for Michael B) although I was under the impression that not every Michael B ring was made personally by him.

Personally I couldn''t care less who does my ring, as long as it''s done right
 

mepearl53

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Date: 11/16/2005 12:32:11 PM
Author:door knob solitaire





I know the description of pave...but some described as pave actually have four prongs per stone. Would four prongs alleviate the loss? I suppose what I am trying to learn is the actual form of pave used in each subject...and if there is a common thread in the design as apposed to the Pave art form itself?




I

Hi DKS

There are two types of pave that we have experience with. One, which is the most popular, is micro pave. In this process there are 4 tiny, but very secure, prongs on the diamond generally in a straight or slightly curved row. When these prongs are heavy enough only a sharp blow can knock them out or break the diamond. The other is classical pave. This has been around for 200 years and was very popular in the beginning of the 20th century as Mara pointed out. In classical pave you can have as few as 3 beads (prongs) to as many as 10 beads on the diamond. This was done by pushing a sharp instrument (graver) down into the metal and raising a bead over the diamond. Done properly this also is very secure and nearly impossible to loose a diamond without a major blow to the ring. If you look under a microscope you should see this quite clearly.

Where problems occur is with 2 prong pave or when heated metal beads are applied to the ring like granulation. The two prong will allow the diamond to slip between the prongs when pressure is applied. The heated metal beads (granulation) can just break off. Pave setting is one of the most beautiful setting styles and when done properly should give you many years of enjoyment.
 

Shay37

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Date: 11/17/2005 12:32:07 AM
Author: door knob solitaire
Thanks everyone. Very informative posts.

Shay...that cracked me up...''back in a sec...'' Have you lost any stones?

DKS
No, DKS, I have not lost a stone. They seem to be very secure. I am happy with my WF ring.


shay
 

ForteKitty

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I'm having major beef about my 3-sided pave ring right now.



I looked at my platinum marquise ring today and noticed that one side of the shank is completely bent. I'm not really sure how this happened, but guessing from reading about people's loose pave, i'll venture a guess that it wasn't done right? Too thin? When you look at the shank straight on, it looks almost as if i tried dragging it somewhere, and the top half didn't want to go, so the bottom is twisted a little. Now I'm neurotic, so I know that definitely wasn't there before.



I can't make it to a jeweler until next week, but can someone tell me if this is even fixable? what happens if the structure is compromised at the side of the shank?

 

door knob solitaire

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks Pearlman Bill!

That was very informative and easy to follow. Is it out of the board bounds to ask you what form of pave is used on say Gumuchin Fils, and other brands you carry? I ask you this so I can make an educated comparision in my purchase. Designer verses custom made.

Does the consumer once informed ask the retailer such as you...or do we need to ask the manufacturer directly?

fortekitty-

I have no knowledge or experience with your situation, and I think I should wait for another to chime in...but does the insertion of the pave actually weaken the strength and trueness of the metal? Structurally speaking you are removing metal for the stone to be seated in...it stands to reason that the paved ring is less rigid and has warping capabilities. It sounds as if it just tweaked under pressure? Any confirmations?
 

ForteKitty

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i wear it on my middle finger, which has a slightly larger knuckle, so it doesn''t come off very smoothly when i remove it. Maybe all the pulling bent it over time? Would it have been less malleable if the mount was 18kt. gold instead?

this sucks. I''m never getting 3-sided pave again. The ring in my avatar is still in perfect condition, and i wear it all the time.
 

mepearl53

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Date: 11/17/2005 6:25:46 PM
Author: door knob solitaire
Thanks Pearlman Bill!

That was very informative and easy to follow. Is it out of the board bounds to ask you what form of pave is used on say Gumuchin Fils, and other brands you carry? I ask you this so I can make an educated comparision in my purchase. Designer verses custom made.

Does the consumer once informed ask the retailer such as you...or do we need to ask the manufacturer directly?
Hi DNS

Sounds like a government agency :) As I said earlier we work with both classic and micro pave. Gumuchian Fils also does both types of work. Her (female designer) engagement rings are mostly micro and her wider wedding rings are classic. She also does the engagement rings and wedding bands from the Pearlman collection. These are all micro pave except the rounded pieces which are classic.

The difference between designer and custom is the expertise. Like a doctor that preforms a specific type of surgery day in and day out the designer has perfected their craft. A custom jeweler may do one design one day and another the next. It''s nearly impossible to find someone who has expertise in every form of metal work and when you do the costs are generally the same as the designer pieces. For those that have a shop employing more than one bench jeweler problems arise when a jeweler leaves for another job. Training a craftsman is very time consuming. The designers have larger shops and if one leaves there is always another who can step in and continue the same quality of work. The brands are also better capitalized so if a problem comes up down the road they will be there to take care of you. The work is consistent. Not to say a brand could not fail financially but none of ours has ever. If the quality goes down they are out the door but this also has not been a problem either.
 
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