Analysis Paralysis - diamond help

[kjvdz]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the site but have been doing a fair amount of research and met with different local (GTA/Toronto, Ontario) jewellers/wholesalers over the past month or two. I feel like I've come a little bit overwhelmed trying to figure out the best option, which is why I turned to this forum for some help.

I'm looking for a round diamond, 1.2 ct or better, H colour or better, around VS2 (curious on your thoughts of going to VS instead of SI), best possible cut (min. triple EX), and minimal or faint fluorescence. I'm trying to stick to a budget of about CAD$11,500, including taxes (13% in Ontario but not sure how online/US purchases work).

For the setting, I am essentially looking for something like the James Allen Petite Pave Flush Fit. I'm not particularly set on any metal, so I figured 14k so more money can be put towards the stone, but I am open to your opinions.

I think I would prefer to purchase locally so that any maintenance work on the ring could be done locally (most local jewellers seemed to include cleaning/polishing/ and some cases replating free of charge). If you have any Toronto recommendations I would certainly be open to them. Is this a valid concern, or is the frequency and cost of maintenance so limited that it makes more sense to purchase online/through a US retailer?

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[farrahlyn]

regarding clarity, why pay for something you can't see? I am totally comfortable going into the SI territory as long as the stone is eye clean. There are a lot of SI stones that are eye clean and it's going to save you money to go this route. Some here though want a "mind clean" stone and once they see an inclusion via clarity plot or loupe they just can't unsee it. You have to determine where you fall.

as far as the taxes, etc do a little digging on the forums here to see what sort of taxes you'll incur by buying online, there are several posts on it. i forget what the % is just off the top of my head.

anyway, you have a great budget!! Here are a few stones i found just taking a quick look. JA has quite a few nice stones in the 1.2ct range: (lots of H VS2 stones in this range)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3499385

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2100117

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3466190

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-g-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3590439

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-g-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3160815

 

[rockysalamander]

I'm based in the US, but on many threads, there have not been a lot of Canadian options.

What I'd suggest is that we provide you with some online options within your budget ($8700 in usd that assumes 13% tax-$1000 for setting = $7700). That will allow you to compare US apples to local apples in pricing and quality. I have friends from overseas that come to the US to obtain a ring (I don't ask how the sort out the taxes and import/duty). Both New York and Chicago are reasonable driving distances. If this is possible, this will greatly up your budget.

Another option would be to have a local jeweler pull in the diamonds we find for you. Just a note, I've never met anyone claiming to be a "diamond wholesaler" is selling at wholesale to the public. They use a % above the Rapport price, which in many ways is like a car dealer using MSRP. Here's the mantra...there are no "deals" in diamonds. There are fair prices and not fair prices.

JA diamonds move fast, so put up to 3 of your favs. on hold! Using $7700 usd for a budget.

#1 - 6.73 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3039655 {really great light return, just a little under your weight goal. JA True Hearts, AGS 0. Chubby arrows give good contrast. Lovely!}

#2 - 6.71 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3257534 {push your budget just a bit, but this gets to 1.2 in weight when rounded, but note it facesup smaller than #1 -- #1 better option. Very pretty. Not quite as strong light return as #1, but very good option. AGS0).

#3 - 6.74 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2871975 {AGS0. Slightly less performance than #1, but still really good and worlds better than most you will see on the street).

To gain some size, here are few that drop color to I and or clarity to SI.

#5 - 6.87 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3466193 {on par with #1 for performance. Tiny inclusion in center of the table that will be invisible to the naked eye. I like this quite a bit. Great lively presentation. Chubby arrows give great contrast}

#6 - 6.89 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3584457 {on par with # 1 for performance. There are a lot of tiny inclusions that may be an issue, but they are are well under the table and tinier than a pepper flake.}

 

[farrahlyn]

UGH. i saw 14k (in reference to metal) and assumed that was the budget. I'm so sorry, that puts the stones i picked out of budget!!! My ADD in action right there.

that last I colored stone rockysalamander posted is GORGEOUS

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I personally prefer VS clarity, because if I am paying for a well cut diamond, I think it's worth getting good clarity, too! H V2 is a great choice for specs!

I looked quickly at the stones Rockysalamander listed, and I like #1-3 and especially #2 the 1.15. I like the angles best and the table is 55 which is very nice as you see a little more crown. (Rocky, I consider the light return to be as good as the others.)

I'd have the diamond seller set the ring. Then it comes to you ready to be insured. Maintenance is extremely rare for most people. I personally would not get white gold because of the pain in the neck of having it replated. I'd rather do platinum and every few years just have it polished.

 

[HappyNewLife]

just a little perspective on maintaining your ring. I don't know if this is how it works in Canada, but I assume it does? In the US, if you buy from an online retailer located in another state, you don't pay tax on the purchase. So, when I bought my ring for $16K from a PS vendor in NY (I'm in CA), I saved something like $1400 in sales tax. For that reason alone we chose to buy out of state. Whenever the diamond has gotten loose in a prong (this happened numerous times, before I stopped using the ultrasonic cleaner), I took it to a local jeweler and they'd tighten it and polish it for free. Even if it had cost me a little bit each time, still way cheaper than tax. Just a thought - I could be talking out of my you-know-what since you're not in the states and I don't know how much customs would cost. GOOD LUCK!

 

[rockysalamander]

I agree with platium, if you budget allows. In the Petite Pave line, I prefer the cathedral version. The shoulder are low, but will help protect the head from lateral forces that can really dislodge the head.

https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ite-pave-cathedral-engagement-ring-item-50083

(Thanks @diamondseeker2006 for your thoughts on the IS. )

 

[kjvdz]

I'm based in the US, but on many threads, there have not been a lot of Canadian options.

What I'd suggest is that we provide you with some online options within your budget ($8700 in usd that assumes 13% tax-$1000 for setting = $7700). That will allow you to compare US apples to local apples in pricing and quality. I have friends from overseas that come to the US to obtain a ring (I don't ask how the sort out the taxes and import/duty). Both New York and Chicago are reasonable driving distances. If this is possible, this will greatly up your budget.

Another option would be to have a local jeweler pull in the diamonds we find for you. Just a note, I've never met anyone claiming to be a "diamond wholesaler" is selling at wholesale to the public. They use a % above the Rapport price, which in many ways is like a car dealer using MSRP. Here's the mantra...there are no "deals" in diamonds. There are fair prices and not fair prices.

JA diamonds move fast, so put up to 3 of your favs. on hold! Using $7700 usd for a budget.

#1 - 6.73 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3039655 {really great light return, just a little under your weight goal. JA True Hearts, AGS 0. Chubby arrows give good contrast. Lovely!}

#2 - 6.71 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3257534 {push your budget just a bit, but this gets to 1.2 in weight when rounded, but note it facesup smaller than #1 -- #1 better option. Very pretty. Not quite as strong light return as #1, but very good option. AGS0).

#3 - 6.74 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2871975 {AGS0. Slightly less performance than #1, but still really good and worlds better than most you will see on the street).

To gain some size, here are few that drop color to I and or clarity to SI.

#5 - 6.87 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3466193 {on par with #1 for performance. Tiny inclusion in center of the table that will be invisible to the naked eye. I like this quite a bit. Great lively presentation. Chubby arrows give great contrast}

#6 - 6.89 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3584457 {on par with # 1 for performance. There are a lot of tiny inclusions that may be an issue, but they are are well under the table and tinier than a pepper flake.}

Thanks so much for listing these. They do look great, however when I try and back into a USD amount for the stone it comes closer to $6,700. I might be willing to push the $11,500 CAD a little bit but I'd be curious if there is anything that you would highlight around that price? Also, we saw an I colour in person and found that between H and I is where we could start to see a slight colour difference. I would definitely consider an eye clean SI1, I'm just not completely sure what would or wouldn't be visible to the naked eye when the pictures/videos are so zoomed in.

In terms of getting to the US to pick it up there, it could be an option if it would make a significant difference. Although, I believe James Allen charges New York shipments taxes.

And in terms of the wholesaler point, I completely agree. I believe their main business is wholesale diamonds but will do the occasional personal piece through referrals at a mark-up to wholesale.

Thanks again

 

[kjvdz]

just a little perspective on maintaining your ring. I don't know if this is how it works in Canada, but I assume it does? In the US, if you buy from an online retailer located in another state, you don't pay tax on the purchase. So, when I bought my ring for $16K from a PS vendor in NY (I'm in CA), I saved something like $1400 in sales tax. For that reason alone we chose to buy out of state. Whenever the diamond has gotten loose in a prong (this happened numerous times, before I stopped using the ultrasonic cleaner), I took it to a local jeweler and they'd tighten it and polish it for free. Even if it had cost me a little bit each time, still way cheaper than tax. Just a thought - I could be talking out of my you-know-what since you're not in the states and I don't know how much customs would cost. GOOD LUCK!

Unfortunately in Canada I believe that as soon as it crosses the border you are required to pay the Canadian taxes on it, which would be 13%.

 

[rockysalamander]

I'll trust you on the conversion.Google let me down So, H+ SI1+ at $6700 usd for just the diamond.

#7 - 6.8 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288646 {Largest. Angles good. Need to check with JA gemologist that the clouds don't impact the stone. inclusion at 3'oclock won't be covered if they prong between arrows}

#8 - 6.7 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288620 {crown angle a bit steep, but balanced by the pavilion angle. Lots of good movement. clarity based on "clouds not shown" so it needs to be inspected by JA gemologist. I don't seen anything in the video and if they don't impact the stone, this is an especially clean SI1}

#9 - 6.73 - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3152348 {I love the small table and while the crown is a bit steep, it is balanced by the pavilion angle. Good light movement. Liking this one!}

#10 - 6.64 mm = https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3499374 (good diamond with balanced angle. Similar angle to #9. Good IS. Lots of little things on the clarity front, but it will be eyeclean as they are tiny and clear/white. Great light movement.)

#11 - 6.79 mm - https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3800301.htm (This is a diamond that just missed being a super-ideal diamond, so it is several steps above the above-three for pure performance. Amazing light return and better upgrade policy than JA. I dropped to an I for this, as I find color less apparent in super-ideals. They list this as eye-clean and I think they are quite reliable, pushes your budget a bit, but thought it was worth posting since is has the size and performance of the others in this post for a bit more money. You could ask them to photo this I against a H both from the top and side after you put this on hold}.

 

[rockysalamander]

Settings at WF if you go that route.
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...eek-line-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-422.htm {always a favorite and that pinch at the top really makes the diamond look bigger}
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...en-cathedral-diamond-engagement-ring-1539.htm

 

[erislynn]

Beautiful find on #11! I find WF's standard of eye-clean extremely reliable whereas JA's can depend on who you talk to. Also keep in mind AGS I color can sometimes be closer to GIA J. Having a WF gemologist advise you on this would be a good idea if you choose this stone.

 

[rockysalamander]

Beautiful find on #11! I find WF's standard of eye-clean extremely reliable whereas JA's can depend on who you talk to. Also keep in mind AGS I color can sometimes be closer to GIA J. Having a WF gemologist advise you on this would be a good idea if you choose this stone.

Fair point. You can test this by ask WF to show you the Expert Select against a GIA I and H.

Interesting reading on color/clarity (http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417 and https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamond-grading/survey-method). Sorry for the threadjack OP.

 

[kjvdz]

I'll trust you on the conversion.Google let me down So, H+ SI1+ at $6700 usd for just the diamond.

#7 - 6.8 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288646 {Largest. Angles good. Need to check with JA gemologist that the clouds don't impact the stone. inclusion at 3'oclock won't be covered if they prong between arrows}

#8 - 6.7 mm - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288620 {crown angle a bit steep, but balanced by the pavilion angle. Lots of good movement. clarity based on "clouds not shown" so it needs to be inspected by JA gemologist. I don't seen anything in the video and if they don't impact the stone, this is an especially clean SI1}

#9 - 6.73 - https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3152348 {I love the small table and while the crown is a bit steep, it is balanced by the pavilion angle. Good light movement. Liking this one!}

#10 - 6.64 mm = https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3499374 (good diamond with balanced angle. Similar angle to #9. Good IS. Lots of little things on the clarity front, but it will be eyeclean as they are tiny and clear/white. Great light movement.)

#11 - 6.79 mm - https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3800301.htm (This is a diamond that just missed being a super-ideal diamond, so it is several steps above the above-three for pure performance. Amazing light return and better upgrade policy than JA. I dropped to an I for this, as I find color less apparent in super-ideals. They list this as eye-clean and I think they are quite reliable, pushes your budget a bit, but thought it was worth posting since is has the size and performance of the others in this post for a bit more money. You could ask them to photo this I against a H both from the top and side after you put this on hold}.

Thank you for providing these options. I'm still trying to decide whether I'm more comfortable buying from a local jeweller or online. I think I am leaning towards local given the convenience and the ease of having any repairs/maintenance done. Am I putting too much value in that? However, I'm clearly not as experienced in selecting diamonds as many of you. Aside from the 4C's, are there any tips/tools to help evaluate stones without your help? Is an HCA score under 2 something that I should absolutely ensure that I look out for?

 

[ringo865]

Any local jeweler can do maintenance and repairs. Look for GIA XXX or AGS only at your local jeweler. Otherwise, you cannot properly compare to what online offers.

 

[rockysalamander]

To me, the maintenance portion is less critical to most here, as we are a group very comfortable buying online. Some get maintenance done locally and some send the ring back to the designer. A well made ring really will only need annual prong checking and periodic re-plating (if you go with white gold; this can range from every 3 years to every few months based on your body chemistry...thus...I go with unplated metal). For re-sizing or serious damage, I would send my ring back to the maker (who happens to be on the other side of the US from me).

I love to support local businesses. In the diamond world, they can be quite helpful or not. Experiences vary. If you want to stay local, you'll need to find someone willing to "call" in diamonds within your parameters (maybe many times), provide you with Idealscope or ASET images (or allow you to take your own), and generally be a good team player asyou will be saying things like "on this online bulletin board, they said this was not a good choice". We have several posters from SE Asia choose this route. They post here to help get some options and evaluate diamonds and images. It tends to be a bit slower process, but perfectly valid. In most locals, you will pay more per carat locally than online -- and a local vendor may or may not offer a good upgrade/trade-in policy. Those are details to check. The benefit of online is a larger pool of choices, larger pool or searchers, and with the PS community to help, information about a vendor and how best to match your needs and their product. I personally do both, online and in person. You could also find a vendor that works out of a bordering US state that does have an online presense, but you could take a drive to give the diamond(s) finial selection approval. ID Jewelery is in New York city - I'm not sure how they sort out the local sales tax. There are also a few Crafted by Infinity (super-ideal) vendors you could drive to (Chris Ploof, Leominster Massachusetts; Diamond One, NYC).

If you want to work locally, these are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone. AGS0 will nearly always been in these numbers. Other grading houses exist (EGL, ISI which are pretty reliable for measurement -- but not for clarity or color).
table: 54-58 (my personal range is 52-57.5)
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

Once you find a stone that has these numbers, you can run it through the HCA tool. That tool is looking for how complimentary the angles are. Under 2.0 is complimentary. But, if you are offered 60/60 stones (table and depth right around 60%), the HCA tool can give them a high score, but they can still be pretty.

After you narrow down with the numbers and HCA tool, which intend to help you get a diamond with good predicted performance, you want to see if it really performs. The IS and ASET are tools to show actual performance.

 

[Sagefemme]

Just buy the best you can get--maintenance is a non issue with engagement rings, compared with the issue of getting the most beautiful, sparkly, flashy stone possible. Don't compromise the way it looks for ever in exchange for some ideas about cleaning and checking prongs. Any jeweler can do that, for free or a nominal fee. Trust us on the online part--it's a non issue if you chose a reputable vendor.

 

[kjvdz]

To me, the maintenance portion is less critical to most here, as we are a group very comfortable buying online. Some get maintenance done locally and some send the ring back to the designer. A well made ring really will only need annual prong checking and periodic re-plating (if you go with white gold; this can range from every 3 years to every few months based on your body chemistry...thus...I go with unplated metal). For re-sizing or serious damage, I would send my ring back to the maker (who happens to be on the other side of the US from me).

I love to support local businesses. In the diamond world, they can be quite helpful or not. Experiences vary. If you want to stay local, you'll need to find someone willing to "call" in diamonds within your parameters (maybe many times), provide you with Idealscope or ASET images (or allow you to take your own), and generally be a good team player asyou will be saying things like "on this online bulletin board, they said this was not a good choice". We have several posters from SE Asia choose this route. They post here to help get some options and evaluate diamonds and images. It tends to be a bit slower process, but perfectly valid. In most locals, you will pay more per carat locally than online -- and a local vendor may or may not offer a good upgrade/trade-in policy. Those are details to check. The benefit of online is a larger pool of choices, larger pool or searchers, and with the PS community to help, information about a vendor and how best to match your needs and their product. I personally do both, online and in person. You could also find a vendor that works out of a bordering US state that does have an online presense, but you could take a drive to give the diamond(s) finial selection approval. ID Jewelery is in New York city - I'm not sure how they sort out the local sales tax. There are also a few Crafted by Infinity (super-ideal) vendors you could drive to (Chris Ploof, Leominster Massachusetts; Diamond One, NYC).

If you want to work locally, these are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone. AGS0 will nearly always been in these numbers. Other grading houses exist (EGL, ISI which are pretty reliable for measurement -- but not for clarity or color).
table: 54-58 (my personal range is 52-57.5)
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

Once you find a stone that has these numbers, you can run it through the HCA tool. That tool is looking for how complimentary the angles are. Under 2.0 is complimentary. But, if you are offered 60/60 stones (table and depth right around 60%), the HCA tool can give them a high score, but they can still be pretty.

After you narrow down with the numbers and HCA tool, which intend to help you get a diamond with good predicted performance, you want to see if it really performs. The IS and ASET are tools to show actual performance.

Thanks for all of your help. I actually found someone local that provides the ASET and hearts and arrows images, possibly IS. He has provided me a list of available stones and I wanted to get your opinion on a few that I had narrowed it down to.

GIA: 1269800964 (USD$6,61 HCA: 0.8
GIA: 5273103687 (USD$6,997) HCA: 1.4
GIA: 2181759749 (USD$7,074) HCA: 1.2
GIA: 1186425447 (USD$7,197) HCA: 0.8

He said he could make the setting for about CAD$1,150, so those stones are right around the range I was looking to spend, give or take a couple hundred dollars. There were others on the list but I thought that those seemed like the best options from what I could tell.

I would greatly appreciate your feedback.

 

[rockysalamander]

GIA grading summarized below for others.

All of these have additional clouds, they need to be inspected to be sure that does not impact the diamond's performance.

I really like #2 the best. Nice angles, small table and great balance with lower girdle facets. G color will be nice and white. #1 and #3 have thicker girdles which eat up a bit of size. Of these two, I like #3 due to the 57% table and other angles. #4 has a lot going on and a lower depth than ideal, so it may not be eye clean. the shallower depth may make it leaky, but it would be worth a photos since its the biggest.

#1. 1.2 H VS2. 6.86 mm. 1269800964, Table 58%, Depth 60.2, CA 33, PV 40.8. Crystal. Cloud Feather. Additional clouds. No flour. Gidle M to Sl thick.

#2. 1.2 G SI1 3X. 6.83 mm. 5273103687, T 55%, Depth 61.8, CA 34, PV 41. Additional clouds. No Flour. Girdle Med. Cloud, Feather, Crystal, Needle.

#3. 1.29 H SI1 6.92 mm. 2181759749, T 57%, Depth 62.2%, CA 34, PV 40.8. Additional clouds. No flour. Girdle slightly thick. Cloud Crystal Feather Needle.

#4. 1.33 H SI1. 7.14 mm 1186425447, T 58%, Depth 60.0%, CA 32.5, PV 41.0. 1.33 H SI1. Crystal cloud feather cavity needle indented natural. Additional clouds. . Girdle thin to medium.

 

[kjvdz]

Ok, thanks. I will ask about the additional clouds and request pictures/videos to ensure the performance isn't impacted. I've attached the list that I was sent as I'm not completely sure if any of the other stones look like better options. The yellow highlights are the ones I originally thought looked best, while the pink were the second tier. Not sure if I picked the right ones though.

 

[kjvdz]

GIA grading summarized below for others.

All of these have additional clouds, they need to be inspected to be sure that does not impact the diamond's performance.

I really like #2 the best. Nice angles, small table and great balance with lower girdle facets. G color will be nice and white. #1 and #3 have thicker girdles which eat up a bit of size. Of these two, I like #3 due to the 57% table and other angles. #4 has a lot going on and a lower depth than ideal, so it may not be eye clean. the shallower depth may make it leaky, but it would be worth a photos since its the biggest.

#1. 1.2 H VS2. 6.86 mm. 1269800964, Table 58%, Depth 60.2, CA 33, PV 40.8. Crystal. Cloud Feather. Additional clouds. No flour. Gidle M to Sl thick.

#2. 1.2 G SI1 3X. 6.83 mm. 5273103687, T 55%, Depth 61.8, CA 34, PV 41. Additional clouds. No Flour. Girdle Med. Cloud, Feather, Crystal, Needle.

#3. 1.29 H SI1 6.92 mm. 2181759749, T 57%, Depth 62.2%, CA 34, PV 40.8. Additional clouds. No flour. Girdle slightly thick. Cloud Crystal Feather Needle.

#4. 1.33 H SI1. 7.14 mm 1186425447, T 58%, Depth 60.0%, CA 32.5, PV 41.0. 1.33 H SI1. Crystal cloud feather cavity needle indented natural. Additional clouds. . Girdle thin to medium.

I just looked through all of the GIA reports and they all include comments stating "Additional clouds are not shown" or "Pinpoints are not shown". Is this something to be concerned about? Of the 11 stones, are there any that look decent enough to ask for pictures/further confirmation of performance? Are there some that I should completely avoid?

Thanks

 

[rockysalamander]

Whenever they say "additional clouds" or a cloud is the setting clarity charasctercis, you'll need a gemologist to review the stone. Clouds can be a non-issure or like a snowglobe where the bits deflect light.

I or somemone will look later today, as the US east coast work day just began. If you can post a quick summary like I did, many of us can look to provide you enough guidance without actually opening the GIA at work.

 

[kjvdz]

Whenever they say "additional clouds" or a cloud is the setting clarity charasctercis, you'll need a gemologist to review the stone. Clouds can be a non-issure or like a snowglobe where the bits deflect light.

I or somemone will look later today, as the US east coast work day just began. If you can post a quick summary like I did, many of us can look to provide you enough guidance without actually opening the GIA at work.

I've summarized the list below. I was told to narrow it down to a few options and we could get more information on those before moving forward. Thanks for everyone's help.

1) 1.2 H VS2 6.83 mm. 1263754795, Table 56%, Depth 61.6, CA 34, PV 40.8, Cloud Crystal Needle. Additional clouds, pinpoints, internal graining, and surface graining. No fluor. Girdle M to Sl thick.

2) (#1 from rocky’s list above) 1.2 H VS2 6.86 mm. 1269800964, Table 58%, Depth 60.2, CA 33, PV 40.8, Crystal, Cloud, Feather. Additional clouds, pinpoints. No fluor. Girdle M to Sl thick.

3) 1.2 H SI1 6.80 mm. 6245151626, Table 57%, Depth 61.8, CA 34.5, PV 40.8, Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Indented Natural. Additional clouds, pinpoints. Faint fluor. Girdle M to Sl thick.

4) 1.21 H SI1 6.84 mm. 7248154955, Table 57%, Depth 61.3, CA 33.5, PV 40.8, Twinning wisp, Feather, Crystal, Needle, Indented Natural. Additional twinning wisps, clouds, pinpoints, surface graining. Faint fluor. Girdle Sl thick.

5) 1.21 H SI1 6.89 mm. 1253364337, Table 59%, Depth 60.1, CA 34, PV 40.6, Twinning wisp, Feather, Indented Natural. Additional twinning wisps, clouds, pinpoints, surface graining. Faint fluor. Girdle M to Sl thick.

6) 1.23 H SI1 6.83 mm. 5243960854, Table 57%, Depth 62.3, CA 35, PV 40.8, Cloud, Crystal, Needle. Additional clouds, pinpoints. No fluor. Girdle M to Sl thick.

7) (#2 from rocky’s list above)1.20 G SI1 6.83 mm. 5273103687, Table 55%, Depth 61.8, CA 34, PV 41, Cloud, Feather, Crystal, Needle. Additional clouds, pinpoints. No fluor. Girdle M.

8 ) (#3 from rocky’s list above) 1.29 H SI1 6.92 mm. 2181759749, Table 57%, Depth 62.2, CA 34, PV 40.8, Cloud, Feather, Crystal, Needle. Additional clouds, pinpoints, surface graining. No fluor. Girdle Sl thick.

9) 1.36 H SI1 7.14 mm. 6261309595, Table 59%, Depth 60.6, CA 33.5, PV 41, Cloud, Feather, Crystal, Needle, Indented Natural. Additional clouds, pinpoints. Faint fluor. Girdle M to Sl thick.

10)(#4 from rocky’s list above) 1.33 H SI1 7.14 mm. 1186425447, Table 58%, Depth 60, CA 32.5, PV 41, Crystal, Cloud, Feather, Cavity, Needle, Indented Natural. Additional clouds, pinpoints. Faint fluor. Girdle Thin to M.

11)1.22 G SI1 7.82 mm. 5213096391, Table 57%, Depth 62.1, CA 34, PV 41, Feather, Crystal, Cloud, Needle. Additional clouds, pinpoints. No fluor. Girdle Sl Thick.

 

[rockysalamander]

Without video and photos, this is how I would approach your list. There are lots of other valid approaches and other may have different ideas. All have the same comment re: additional crystals. Also, first ask if they are eye-clean at 6-8"....that might drop out my top choices right away.

1) eliminated # 5 & 9, unless you are open to 60/60 style
2) eliminated #2 & 10 (crown angle too low),
2) I'd request photos, video, ASET and H&A for like #7 (explained above), #1 (angles & VS2), and #4 (twinning wisps, only small crystal under the table, good crown angle, smaller table)

All the diamonds I posted in post #10 above are still available. JA will generally provide an IS image. May I suggest you pick your top 3, put them on hold and then the IS image. Worst case you have too many good options! At least those we've cleared as being eye clean and looking good to the eyes.

 

[kjvdz]

Without video and photos, this is how I would approach your list. There are lots of other valid approaches and other may have different ideas. All have the same comment re: additional crystals. Also, first ask if they are eye-clean at 6-8"....that might drop out my top choices right away.

1) eliminated # 5 & 9, unless you are open to 60/60 style
2) eliminated #2 & 10 (crown angle too low),
2) I'd request photos, video, ASET and H&A for like #7 (explained above), #1 (angles & VS2), and #4 (twinning wisps, only small crystal under the table, good crown angle, smaller table)

All the diamonds I posted in post #10 above are still available. JA will generally provide an IS image. May I suggest you pick your top 3, put them on hold and then the IS image. Worst case you have too many good options! At least those we've cleared as being eye clean and looking good to the eyes.

To be completely honest, I'm not exactly sure what differs with the 60/60 style. I tried to look it up but I couldn't really identify any distinct differences.

 

[kjvdz]

Without video and photos, this is how I would approach your list. There are lots of other valid approaches and other may have different ideas. All have the same comment re: additional crystals. Also, first ask if they are eye-clean at 6-8"....that might drop out my top choices right away.

1) eliminated # 5 & 9, unless you are open to 60/60 style
2) eliminated #2 & 10 (crown angle too low),
2) I'd request photos, video, ASET and H&A for like #7 (explained above), #1 (angles & VS2), and #4 (twinning wisps, only small crystal under the table, good crown angle, smaller table)

All the diamonds I posted in post #10 above are still available. JA will generally provide an IS image. May I suggest you pick your top 3, put them on hold and then the IS image. Worst case you have too many good options! At least those we've cleared as being eye clean and looking good to the eyes.

I received the following pictures of #1, 4 and 7. Looking at the pictures, #4 clearly looks worse, although the dealer said the picture quality is lower so that could be contributing to that as well. Between #1 and 7, they look pretty similar to me. If anything, #4 looks to have a little nicer clarity to me despite the lower clarity grade ($380 more than #1). The dealer mentioned that videos aren't available for these stones and that he would provide scopes once we decided on one. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
#1)
#4)
#7)

 

[HappyNewLife]

Just based on info in this post and the photo, I like how #7 looks

 

[rockysalamander]

I agree with @HappyNewLife that #7 that I think it has better proportions and seems like it has slightly less leakage, but that inclusion on the table edge (between 9&10) may be visible from a side view. #1 seems to have no clarity issues, but looks a bit darker under the table.

#4 is actually pretty nice, images are very similar to how Adiamor shoots them. There is a lot going on, but it is all relatively small and see through. With the bare eye, I think it likely will be eye clean. But, I think the cavity would bug me.

TBH, I want a video and ASET of both #1 and 7. They still both need to be reviewed for any impact from the clouds. It really bugs me that they won't "call" in both stones and get you both ASETs to compare. If they won't provide until you pay, what happens if you don't like it? Will they give you a full refund? I'd want a guarantee in writing that if you find the diamond in any way unacceptable (video, in person, IS, ASET), you get a full refund. Do they offer an upgrade program?

I just chatted with James Allen and I just confirmed that they will bill in Canadian and they will collect the necessary taxes. I'm not in the US and don't know all the right questions to ask, but if you can sort this out with them, then you budget may be a bit better online and they will provide IS for most of their diamonds.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2785606
This is AGS0. Good hearts image. Acceptable IS. Lovely clarity and you can see this in 360. CA$10985. Tiny table will throw lots of fire. You get their full 30-day return policy.

They are having a 15% off all setting right now through 11/6.

 

[kjvdz]

I agree with @HappyNewLife that #7 that I think it has better proportions and seems like it has slightly less leakage, but that inclusion on the table edge (between 9&10) may be visible from a side view. #1 seems to have no clarity issues, but looks a bit darker under the table.

#4 is actually pretty nice, images are very similar to how Adiamor shoots them. There is a lot going on, but it is all relatively small and see through. With the bare eye, I think it likely will be eye clean. But, I think the cavity would bug me.

TBH, I want a video and ASET of both #1 and 7. They still both need to be reviewed for any impact from the clouds. It really bugs me that they won't "call" in both stones and get you both ASETs to compare. If they won't provide until you pay, what happens if you don't like it? Will they give you a full refund? I'd want a guarantee in writing that if you find the diamond in any way unacceptable (video, in person, IS, ASET), you get a full refund. Do they offer an upgrade program?

I just chatted with James Allen and I just confirmed that they will bill in Canadian and they will collect the necessary taxes. I'm not in the US and don't know all the right questions to ask, but if you can sort this out with them, then you budget may be a bit better online and they will provide IS for most of their diamonds.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2785606
This is AGS0. Good hearts image. Acceptable IS. Lovely clarity and you can see this in 360. CA$10985. Tiny table will throw lots of fire. You get their full 30-day return policy.

They are having a 15% off all setting right now through 11/6.

Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their help and input. I got in contact with Martin from USA Certed Diamonds as he is actually located just outside of Toronto, which is convenient for me. He sent me a bunch of different options and narrowed it down to one strong contender. It is GIA 225744158. 1.20 VS2 H. 6.84 mm. Table 57, depth 61, CA 33.5, PA 40.8. Knot, crystal, feather, needle, pinpoint, natural. Additional pinpoints not shown. No fluor. Girdle medium to sl thick. HCA comes out around 1.0 (can’t recall exactly)

I was sent over the following video
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/v360vid/2257445158_v3.html

Martin checked with the dealer who told him that the spots around the table are dust, as are some of the spots on the table except for the main inclusion. He also confirmed that the slight haziness in the facets at 11 and 1 o’clock are either fingerprints or reflections, as they are both clear.

The stone is about US$6,800.

Any thoughts or concerns would be greatly appreciated.