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An M color that looks like an I/J?

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Noahsmom

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I was looking at a beautiful stone today. It is a 1.20 ct, M color, VS2 clarity, round brilliant, VG cut. It is classified as an M color, however it faces up as a I or J color. The jeweller had it set in a yellow gold setting, so I'm sure that had something to do with the color too. She let me take it outside and see it in the day light as well as a couple other light settings and I could only see the yellow in poor lighting. The stone was priced at $3900. Does this sound like a good deal? It is a bit out of my price range, but there was something about the stone I was just drawn to, it enchanted me :)

If I were to get it, it would be next to 2 .25ct I color stones in WG in a wrap setting.

Does this sound like a pretty good deal? I would love to give you all more specs, but she said she would be able to give them to me after she removes it from the setting, and to do that I have to put down a deposit.
Thoughs or ideas?
 

Rockdiamond

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From the sound of it, the grading was not done by GIA.
That means it''s kind of a wildcard. The near colorless, and slightly tinted colors are quite difficult to grade- so if we want to really be sure of what color it is, we''d need a GIA report.
That said, the price is not outrageous for a 1.20ct if you''re shopping in a Brick and Mortar situation- the internet will offer lower prices, but you''d give up on being able to walk in a buy it in person- which is imporatant to some.
 

Noahsmom

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It is a B&M store, it is a diamond wholesaler. They have a pretty good reputation in the area for quality product, good prices and excellent customer service. They are part of a local chain...3 stores in all, and they are all locally based.
The fact it is a 1.20 ct is ok by me, but I would gladly sacrifice size over a good cut and color, however it is a VG cut, it''s just the color. Next to my wrap, you couldn''t see any of the M color, if anything it looked right on par with my 2 side stones.
They do have a GIA gemologist on site if that makes a difference?
 

ericad

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Well, if it''s helpful, I wear an M/N antique cushion (graded against EGL and GIA certed stones, though mine is uncerted) and, while tint is definitely visible from the side, it faces up like an I/J. Several people have compared my diamond to their own higher colored stones and guessed I/J color. So it''s certainly possible, though David is correct that assessing method of grading is important in order to determine the right price for the stone.
 

Noahsmom

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Erica that is very hepful thank you very much for your reply. I am fairly sure that it is not certified, but appraised at that value. I just put in a phone call to them and they are going to call me back because the person I was working with is with another client right now.

I just have to say how awesome it has been to be a member here the past week. I came here about to buy an enhanced diamond, and now I won''t even walk into a store without thinking "what would the PS people say about this"
 

glitterata

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Can you take it to an independent appraiser? Can you return it if it doesn''t look good in your setting?
 

Rockdiamond

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Date: 1/30/2009 1:47:40 PM
Author: Noahsmom
It is a B&M store, it is a diamond wholesaler. They have a pretty good reputation in the area for quality product, good prices and excellent customer service. They are part of a local chain...3 stores in all, and they are all locally based.
The fact it is a 1.20 ct is ok by me, but I would gladly sacrifice size over a good cut and color, however it is a VG cut, it's just the color. Next to my wrap, you couldn't see any of the M color, if anything it looked right on par with my 2 side stones.
They do have a GIA gemologist on site if that makes a difference?
There's a few things here that would raise a few eyebrows...
First of all, this sounds like a retail store. Calling themselves diamond wholesaler is kind of misleading as you are purchasing retail.
Second of all- the phrase "GIA gemologist" is purposefully designed to mislead you.
GIA does offer courses- complete them, and you become a GG- but past that, someone completing the course has no connection to GIA whatsoever.
Implying that they do is a good way to fool buyers.
Having someone who is a GG look at a diamond has nothing at all in common with a GIA report.

I am in no way trying to scare you here- but knowing the facts might be helpful to you in your dealings with them.

As I said, the price does not seem crazy high seeing as how you're buying this in a retail walk in situation.

I'd also make sure you do not buy anything unless you get a money back guarantee- not simply exchange, full money back. You mentioned return- but make sure you can get a refund, not simnply an exchange.
 

ericad

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I agree that taking the stone to an independent appraiser of your choosing is a good idea. Or perhaps negotiate the sale as contingent upon a GIA report (they would actually mail the diamond to GIA labs for a GIA report, which is very different from having it graded by a GIA trained in-house gemologist). These are the only ways of knowing that you are indeed buying an M, VS2, etc.

I would also run comps via PS vendors (GOG, WF, etc.) as a reality check on pricing for these specs.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Well I just did a search on the Pricescope engine and M colour VS2 stones that are 1.20 carat graded by GIA (which may be a much different beast that the uncerted stone you are looking at, probably better colour and clarity is a safe assumtion) cost between $2600 and $3000.

So that price you are being quoted is high, especially since it may not actually be a comparable stone to the ones above (i.e., it may not be a GIA level M VS2)
 

LD

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Date: 1/30/2009 1:31:30 PM
Author:Noahsmom
I was looking at a beautiful stone today. It is a 1.20 ct, M color, VS2 clarity, round brilliant, VG cut. It is classified as an M color, however it faces up as a I or J color. The jeweller had it set in a yellow gold setting, so I''m sure that had something to do with the color too. She let me take it outside and see it in the day light as well as a couple other light settings and I could only see the yellow in poor lighting. The stone was priced at $3900. Does this sound like a good deal? It is a bit out of my price range, but there was something about the stone I was just drawn to, it enchanted me :)

If I were to get it, it would be next to 2 .25ct I color stones in WG in a wrap setting.

Does this sound like a pretty good deal? I would love to give you all more specs, but she said she would be able to give them to me after she removes it from the setting, and to do that I have to put down a deposit.
Thoughs or ideas?
You know what? That''s the most important thing. If you can afford it, get it if it''s pulled you to it. I''ve boughts diamonds because the specs have been right but the love hasn''t been there - not a great idea! I now only buy what I love.

By the way, does the M colour have any fluor? If so, that''s why it might face up whiter than it is - because set in yellow gold, it would struggle to do that.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
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M stones can be lovely, but they do have color. I would think that the yellow gold setting would make it a bit hard to judge. A properly graded M isn''t actually *yellow* from the top usually- but it isn''t white either... it just looks noticeably warm, kind of a greyish cream color; also, lighting affects the color a lot. Some lighting will make it look pure white, like Target/Home Depot type lighting usually. Spotlighting and very bright sunlight will make most well cut diamonds go dark grey so they all look about the same in that lighting. The most color shows under fluorescent lighting and diffuse lighting.

I think you have to actually like the color that you''ll see sometimes; if you''re wanting a pure white look, I''d go for smaller and whiter. If you don''t mind a creamy warm color, or even like it (like I do) it would be worth looking in that color range even if this stone doesn''t work.

And yes- most people expect an M to look actually yellow, so you get lots of people assuming assuming it''s a different color like a J. That, and a lot of what would be GIA Ms are sold as higher colors with soft certs or no certs in maul stores, which is what most people are familiar with, of course.

Personally, I *like* warmth in most diamonds, and prefer it in antique cuts- I wear a 3.55ct M colored Old European Cut and a 1.22ct N colored Old European Cut. The smaller stone is less noticeably warm just because it''s smaller.

I''d check out Wink etc.''s Infinity line, they get some great unusual colors in and they''re amazingly well cut. I think they have a new website, High Performance Diamonds.

As far as the one you''re considering, I''d definitely take it to get appraised if you want to consider it- you need to know what it actually is as far as color and clarity goes, if it has no cert, and how well it''s cut. While you may not need a perfect ideal cut to be happy, you do want decent light return and a pretty stone. An ideal cut M would face up even whiter than another more average cut, however.
 

Noahsmom

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You can only really see the yellow tint on the side. I do not know the flouro. From what I can tell when I put the ring on, you can''t see any yellow on the top, only on the sides. It was like that in daylight and halogen lighting (in the store). I could only really see any yellow in low lighting
The woman called me back and told me with the sale, they give a EGL apprasial card, but it is not certified. The card that I did see with the stone is a VG cut, and let me tell ya, in the natural daylight that stone was a firecracker!
Is there a big difference between EGL and GIA?
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi Noahsmom -
The yellow gold setting may also be helping the appearance of whiteness - the contrast between the yellow setting and not-so- yellow stone can actually help the M look even whiter. Is it in a heavy setting (bezel, etc), or just prongs?
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
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Ok - my understanding is that the heavier the setting is around it, but more contrast in colors there is (such as a thick bezel), so the whiter it may appear. 6 prongs probably isn't enough metal to give enough contrast for this.
I almost purchased a beautiful J pendant recently set in a thick yellow bezel and it looked very white.
 

Noahsmom

Shiny_Rock
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So if it were in a heavier gold setting that would make the stone brighter? Sorry, if I'm totally missing the point, I'm somewhat out of it from my cold medicine


Meaning that because it was only 6 prongs and the stone still looked pretty white face up...that's good?
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
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Yes! :)

ETA: Actually what is really good about it is that you are really drawn to it. That is important. Can it be unset so that you can evaluate it how you like it outside of the setting too?
Oh boy your husband is going to KILL us when he gets back!
 

Noahsmom

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 20, 2009
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They said that once I put the deposit down they will take it out of the setting so I can look at it and they will lightly put it in my current setting to see if I still like it.

If I am putting into a WG setting, will that make the yellow come out more?

I told him that it was going to be my v-day present and wedding anniversary gift wrapped up, but we might just have to thrown in Mothers Day, Easter and Flag day too.
 

swingirl

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Apr 6, 2006
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If I was going to get an M I'd get an ideal cut because the color will show less (more white light is reflected in an ideal cut).

1.09ct M SI1

I purchased an M as a gift and I had it set in platinum. It is beautiful. Diamonds will pickup reflections of things around them. I would think a yellow setting would make a stone look more yellow, although I guess you could say the contrast between the yellow gold and the stone would make the stone seem whiter.
 

Noahsmom

Shiny_Rock
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I think I am going to pass on the M stone. I talked to the hubby and while he said it was ok...I dunno. Now I''m starting to doubt myself.
Now I''m going through the thoughts that I''ll just wait till he gets back, or if I am having doubts not to get it, etc. I have these thoughts until I see the next stone I become enamored with. That will probably be tomorrow..
 
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