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All my Taxes live in Texas...

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matchstick

Rough_Rock
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Jan 13, 2010
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So in the long and exciting journey that is purchasing an engagement ring... I''ve gone from evaluating rings in a B&M store... thinking of using a "guy" that a "friend" of mine knows... to strongly considering an unseen diamond from Blue Nile (pretty much unaware of any other online diamond sites).

Then I discovered PriceScope.com (I happened upon while trying to find reviews for BlueNile.com).

I had read and heard of the famed "4 c''s" of diamonds. But knowing that those four c''s exist was like reading the cover of a text book... reading all the information on PS was like taking a 101, 201 and 301 class in comparison. Especially when it came to "cut". My concept of a well cut diamond before PS was, "The GIA said the cut was ''Excellent'' what more is there to know?"

All of this wonderful information made me really interested the WhiteFlash ACA diamonds... unfortunately, since I live in Dallas... there''s that nasty 8.25% sales tax to purchase from them, and if I wanted to increase my budget by 8.25%... I''d rather spend it on the diamond. How about Brian Gavin... everyone raves about his work... drats... also in Houston (which made sense since he used to work for White Flash).

So now to find a diamond from one of the many other fine vendors in the country!

I''d like to ask the fine folks of the PS community for their educated and wise opinions on what''s a diamond noob to do. My situation is thus:

I have a budget of around $4000 for the ring. It could go over a smidge... but $4000 is generally where I''d like to keep it. My fiancee-to-be is not a jewelry wearer. The only piece of jewelry she has ever owned in her life was a little onyx ring I got her for our first anniversary of dating. She is extremely easy going and generally hates spending money. I could get her a $500 ring from Zales and she would be very happy. However... I would like to give her a quality ring because I think she''s a quality gal. ;-)

My goal with the ring is for it to be as large as possible, but with a fantastic cut so it''s like a little miniature sun on her finger. From a color and clarity perspective, I just don''t want it to look "weird". I''d like it to be "eye clean".

Typically, I''ve been searching for diamonds with an AGS 000 cut, an HCA of less than 2, color from G to J and VS1 to VS2 (because the SI''s scare me a bit). I''ve been mostly look at various site''s version of a H&A cut, but I''m not particularly interested in an H&A cut specifically (although they are rather cool)... just a really fantastic cut.

From a setting perspective, I was planning on something simple in a white gold "Comfort Fit" style around $300 to $400 or so.

Part of my question is... how comfortable would you be with a diamond like this:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1274557.asp

Is J too low? I''m not terribly color sensitive... but if the stone is cut well... do you think J is okay?

Any specific advice that perhaps I haven''t thought of? I haven''t actually called a vendor and talked to anyone yet... should I do that more than just browsing websites?

I''ve really enjoyed using this site and reading many of the threads... thank you in advance for having so much quality info. :)
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,083
No need to just limit your selections to AGS graded stone. GIA can be just as good as long as you can get Idealscope image, which JA can supply on request, and you can go to I if you are afraid of seeing color. It will still be white, just not as white as a D, so as long as you are not comparing with a D stone side by side, should be fine.

EDT:
The stone you selected looks good. Ask for an idealscope image and that will put the stone on hold for you.

This looks good too, ask for an idealscope image if you are interested in it too, and ask JA to check that if it is eye-clean and if the grade setting cloud affects the optical performance of the stone.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1268550.asp
 

tonyc2387

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
227
Date: 1/15/2010 8:37:24 PM
Author:matchstick
All of this wonderful information made me really interested the WhiteFlash ACA diamonds... unfortunately, since I live in Dallas... there''s that nasty 8.25% sales tax to purchase from them, and if I wanted to increase my budget by 8.25%... I''d rather spend it on the diamond. How about Brian Gavin... everyone raves about his work... drats... also in Houston (which made sense since he used to work for White Flash).

Ouch man, feel for you... I can vouch for the ACA''s (just got mine, see sig) and I really wish there was some way to help, but I know it''s just impossible to set up a trusted system on the level of several thousands of dollars. The good news, though, is that NY vendors such as James Allen and Good Old Gold carry diamonds that are every bit as good as WF and BGD... so you''re covered there.

As for clarity, you can safely get into SI1 as long as vendors say it''s eye-clean. SI2-I are where they really start getting "not quite eye-clean"-''weird'' as you say. But yes, VS2 is almost always a safe bet. I agree with well-cut I being safe for color on its own, but you will most likely be able to tell if it''s held up next to anything over a G (usually you can see the difference in 2+ grades).

Here''s a suggestion... a bit underbudget I suppose, but gives you some flexibility for the setting. This thing will be a stunner:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6223/
 

AshNZ

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
56
Hi matchstick,

I was/am in a similar situation to you as I live in Houston. At the end of the day I'll live with the extra taxes if I buy locally (BG or WF). With regard to your diamond criteria, I was in the same boat after doing my research - you already know cut is king. You'd like a larger diamond for your budget (good idea) so you are sacrificing color and clarity. I too started out wanting VS graded clarity as it seemed like the 'value' clarity whilst still giving peace of mind. I'll tell you what though, given your recently acquired knowledge, and the terrific vendors on PS whom you can trust, I would REALLY consider down to SI2 Stones. No diamond is flawless (even FL diamonds have imperfections if you magnify enough) so all that really matters is the stone is Eye-clean. Here is where you can lean on PS vendors to find an eye-clean stone.

Personally, I would MUCH rather take a dive on clarity (as long as it remains eye-clean) to get into the colorless or near colorless range. They only way I defined my color limitations was to go to B&M stores and sift through various colors

You already know of BG and WF, Try GoodOldGold, James Allen and Wink (HighPerformanceDiamonds)

Given your criteria, what size were you hoping for?

Goodluck

Some search Results (I kept search results to D-G color)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4957/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4958/ wow! D color 0.83 and remarkable brillantScope results (which should be taken with a grain of salt)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1204041.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,587
If it were me I would probably be happier to pay the sales tax. This way you can actually go in and look at the diamonds before you buy. But thats just my opinion. I have been a customer of both Whiteflash and Brian Gavin Diamonds. I would love to have visited them. I wish we had such good vendors where I live (UK).

Don''t you have to pay any tax at all for an online purchase if you buy it out of state?
 

matchstick

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
14
Excellent advice all!

Especially dropping the Clarity down to SI1 or SI2 and asking the vendor in question if it's eye clean.

Also excellent point on not necessarily limiting myself to just AGS certified diamonds.

BTW... Tony, that's a fantastic ring you got. I really enjoyed the pictures, especially since the size and style is in the same ballpark as what I'm thinking about.

Maise, I agree, it would be one thing if it were in the same city, but I live in Dallas and Houston is 250 miles away. I don't think I could sneak off to Houston without my girlfriend noticing. ;-) And you don't pay any tax if the vendor doesn't have an office in the same state as you. So James Allen, GOG and several others have no sales tax for me, but WF and BGD do. That's around $350 dollars I'd be paying the state of Texas for the privilege of buying online from Houston. Not that I don't like the state of Texas... but I'd rather not put $350 dollars into something that doesn't improve the ring... especially when there are so many other good vendors.

I can't wait till next week... there are a couple of diamonds at James Allen that I'd really like to see the IS images on.

Buying diamonds is pretty exciting... like a scavenger hunt.
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Date: 1/16/2010 8:15:01 PM
Author: matchstick
Excellent advice all!

Especially dropping the Clarity down to SI1 or SI2 and asking the vendor in question if it''s eye clean.

Also excellent point on not necessarily limiting myself to just AGS certified diamonds.

BTW... Tony, that''s a fantastic ring you got. I really enjoyed the pictures, especially since the size and style is in the same ballpark as what I''m thinking about.

Maise, I agree, it would be one thing if it were in the same city, but I live in Dallas and Houston is 250 miles away. I don''t think I could sneak off to Houston without my girlfriend noticing. ;-) And you don''t pay any tax if the vendor doesn''t have an office in the same state as you. So James Allen, GOG and several others have no sales tax for me, but WF and BGD do. That''s around $350 dollars I''d be paying the state of Texas for the privilege of buying online from Houston. Not that I don''t like the state of Texas... but I''d rather not put $350 dollars into something that doesn''t improve the ring... especially when there are so many other good vendors.

I can''t wait till next week... there are a couple of diamonds at James Allen that I''d really like to see the IS images on.

Buying diamonds is pretty exciting... like a scavenger hunt.

Well geography was never my strong point
9.gif
 

matchstick

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Date: 1/16/2010 8:26:23 PM
Author: Lestat
Date: 1/16/2010 4:19:07 PM

Author: Maisie


Don''t you have to pay any tax at all for an online purchase if you buy it out of state?


I also thought that you were responsible for paying your state sales tax even if your out-of-state vendor doesn''t charge it to you.


See this journal article: http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/82/1/The-Internet-and-Sales-Tax---A-Free-Ride-or-Not.aspx

Fascinating... I really did not know that. I even found the form for Texas.

I guess a better way to put it is that the non-Texas vendors won''t collect the tax.

Texas generally has a very anti-tax attitude. We don''t even have a state income tax.
 

misssoph

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
121
If you are looking for an idealplus diamond have you looked at highperformancediamonds/crafted byinfinity? I dont think they are in Texas.
 

SpareMyWallet

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
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These are you options to not pay tax....Have them ship it to a friend of relative out of state, then have relative ship it back registered mail OR fly to relative/friend and pick it up yourself for a $300 round trip.
 

tonyc2387

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Date: 1/16/2010 8:15:01 PM
Author: matchstick
BTW... Tony, that''s a fantastic ring you got. I really enjoyed the pictures, especially since the size and style is in the same ballpark as what I''m thinking about.

Thanks matchstick! Glad you enjoyed the pics... I know I do, since I''m trying not to risk continually pulling it out to look at it. My budget was pretty much the same... though I sort of blew past it (oops
17.gif
) It''s certainly blazing a hole through my pocket too... it''s sooooooo hard having it just sit around. I just want to see it on her finger already!!

As for sales/use tax...
3.gif
I''ll pay when they tell me to pay. Though, SpareMyWallet, I thought it went by billing address, since that''s presumably where you live? I don''t think "ship over there" is a reason for them not to collect tax... I thought it''s more like "I live over there, so you can''t collect tax".
 

Lestat

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Date: 1/17/2010 2:45:58 AM
Author: tonyc2387

As for sales/use tax...
3.gif
I''ll pay when they tell me to pay. Though, SpareMyWallet, I thought it went by billing address, since that''s presumably where you live? I don''t think ''ship over there'' is a reason for them not to collect tax... I thought it''s more like ''I live over there, so you can''t collect tax''.

They won''t just tell you to pay, if you''ve evaded sales/use tax in Texas, I believe as a first offence you will be charged with a class C misdemeanor that stays on your criminal record, as well as a fine up to $500. Feel free to double-check this info as I''m not from Texas and I''m not a lawyer, I just had a quick read of their sales tax laws. You might not get caught, but it''ll cost you if you do.
 

tradergirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
863
Wouldn''t lose a lot of sleep over that one. I''m in Dallas too and haven''t paid a dime in sales tax on a whole lotta jewelry bought out of state in the last several years.
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,587
Date: 1/17/2010 1:25:26 AM
Author: SpareMyWallet
These are you options to not pay tax....Have them ship it to a friend of relative out of state, then have relative ship it back registered mail OR fly to relative/friend and pick it up yourself for a $300 round trip.
I think that the cost of the round trip would be the same as the sales tax for Texas.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
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Date: 1/17/2010 2:45:58 AM
Author: tonyc2387
As for sales/use tax...
3.gif
I'll pay when they tell me to pay. Though, SpareMyWallet, I thought it went by billing address, since that's presumably where you live? I don't think 'ship over there' is a reason for them not to collect tax... I thought it's more like 'I live over there, so you can't collect tax'.

The rules for the merchant on when they should collect taxes and at what rate are generally based on the ‘ship to’ address or the location of the store if you pick it up in person. They don't have much room for negotiation and the rules are generally pretty clear. Any merchant with sense knows well the rules that apply to their own operation and most are sticklers about compliance. The penalties for merchants who screw this up are pretty grim. The rules from the revenuers for what you owe are generally based on your residence or the location where the merchandise will be stored or used. Your billing address rarely comes into play although for a lot of people this is the same as their residence.

As has been pointed out above, you can instruct the merchant to ship to whatever address you want, be it a friend, an out of state setter or appraiser or any other address you can agree to and it will affect whether the merchant can and should collect taxes. This probably will not affect what you owe. The burden on all such taxes is for you to know the law and comply with it. Pay or not as you wish, lots of people don’t, but it’s not up to the taxman to tell you what you owe or when to pay it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

FancyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,065
Date: 1/17/2010 1:25:26 AM
Author: SpareMyWallet
These are you options to not pay tax....Have them ship it to a friend of relative out of state, then have relative ship it back registered mail OR fly to relative/friend and pick it up yourself for a $300 round trip.
Ditto what ApareMyWallet said about mailing the diamond jewlery to an out-of-stae friend/relative.

For diamonds, I do not mess with uncertainty with cut. I have looked at other''s diamonds and compared side by side with my WF ACA''s. There is simply no comparison. My ACA''s outshine my friends'' diamonds hands down. Therefore, I strongly advise you to get ACA''s, especially that you do not buy diamonds eeveryday and that you do not want to be stck with something you will regret later.

Remember, for ACA''s, you have 30 days to return it for a full refund if you are not satisfied with the diamond. In addition, you can always trade in the diamond if you want something bigger.

For your information, the cost for First Class, insured Registered Mail is under $25. This shipping means is worry-free, because your item is locked up over night and signed for at every interim usps point. In order to receive it, you must show a photo ID such as drivers'' license or passport and sign for the mail/package. Mostly importantly, the package is insured. Just make sure you insure the full value.
 

SpareMyWallet

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
150
Date: 1/17/2010 10:20:30 AM
Author: Maisie


Date: 1/17/2010 1:25:26 AM
Author: SpareMyWallet
These are you options to not pay tax....Have them ship it to a friend of relative out of state, then have relative ship it back registered mail OR fly to relative/friend and pick it up yourself for a $300 round trip.
I think that the cost of the round trip would be the same as the sales tax for Texas.

$825 tax on $10000.

If you can't find a ticket for $300 to your neighboring state, you are not very good at shopping.
But honestly I would rather have it shipped back to me registered mail insured for $10000 for under $40.

The round-trip route was for those paranoid about USPS losing package..
 

tonyc2387

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
227
Date: 1/17/2010 10:35:37 AM
Author: denverappraiser
The rules for the merchant on when they should collect taxes and at what rate are generally based on the "ship to" address or the location of the store if you pick it up in person.

It's not up to the taxman to tell you what you owe or when to pay it.

Neil, I bow to your expertise.

But yes, it is smarter (albeit infinitely lamer) to pay.
 

matchstick

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
14
Current leading contender:

Diamond Details
Item Number: 1276915
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.97
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 61.6%
Table: 56.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.34*6.38*3.92

Crown: 34.5
Pavilion: 40.8

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent
within TIC range

Now just waiting on an Ideal Scope image...
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,587
Spare My Wallet, the OP said he wants to spend $4000 not $10,000. Therefore the cost of the plane ticket would be around the same as the amount of taxes payable if he bought the ring in Texas.
 

bebe

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
2,845
Ahmm..

I live in Texas, bought in Houston. Had the set stone shipped to my brother in Arkansas, he picked it up at Fed-Ex (signature required) and he brought it with him when he visited. Easy as pie. Didn''t pay taxes as it was shipped out of state. Same as when I bought my stone in NYC, had the ring made and then shipped to Texas.
I know I''m not the first to do this, my best friend did something similar.
 
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