AGS-000 but not H&A, is this ok??

[get_cut_not_ripped]

Thanks to all for you help this far. I unfortunately just had a bad experience with a diamond purchased from a PS vendor, however, I will not be posting details at this time, as the vendor has agreed to make it right.

Hence, the search continues.

I found another great diamond, which has an unusual situation. It''s at WF, and it has just come in, just come back from AGS, and was graded a ''triple zero''. I was advised that this diamond may posses the marks to have it certified as "A Cut Above" H&A, but that they wouldn''t check that if I was purchasing at the current posted price of $6948. I was told if it was checked and passed, that it would go up approximately 20% in price, $8337, which I then wouldn''t be able to afford. They''re sending me inclusion photos, but would not send the H&A views as it''s not considered one of their ACA as of yet.

My question is this:
Is this a good deal as it is, and should I accept it or look for something similar which is already H&A? My price range is really no more than $6500, and this one''s ok at $6600, but I really can''t go much higher.

Here''s the 1.28ct G Si1

Here''s the Sarin info:
Table: 55.6
Depth: 60.7
Crown: 34.8
Pavil: 40.9

 

[motcs]

If you're really set on an H&A diamond, I would suggest you get this diamond independently appraised. I'm sure the appraiser would be able to provide you the necessary pictures for you to judge the H&A quality.

 

[Jennifer5973]

I just had an experience where I had a chance to compare an AGS 1 to an AGS 0, H&A under very harsh lighting...I personally couldn't tell the difference with my eye. And of course, the stone that was just an iota less than a true H&A was thousands cheaper... I guess it's like the first poster said--determine how much you really want an H&A stone and how much that is worth to you. There are many ways to cut a beautiful diamond and some prefer the H&A pattern--and that's fine, but personally, I'd rather save $2000 and still walk away with a fabulous stone.

Good luck!

 

[diamondlil]

Sounds like an awsome stone regardless of whether it is a true H&A. At worst, it is probably so close to H&A that you will not be able to visually tell the difference. Decide how important it is to you to have that H&A stamp on it.




I'd rather have a little bigger size stone and a not-quite-H&A grade, but that's just me. How about you take this one and have it independently appraised. WF has a good return policy, so I think your safe. It would be a shame to let this one go. If you don't take it, WF tests it as a true H&A, and bumps the price up, you'll really regret it. Just my 2 cents though.




Good luck!




DiamondLil

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

Well as far as the H&A, she'll not care about that, and I'm not exactly going to take out the H&A viewer and bring it around so people can properly admire the "cut" when we show friends and family. So, as far as the importance of it being an H&A to me, I only looked for that because it seemed as though that was a credential/criteria that everyone here insisted upon. BTW: I would imagine they're not in the practice of enticing sales in this manner, and my salesperson seems to think that it's very probable that it would be rated as ACA if it went through....he just can't have those criteria tested, because if he does, it will trigger the price change (Supposedly)....to me it kinda seems like selling a Picasso at a garage sale, without authenticating the signature. Either way, he said it was absolutely eye-clean, and the AGS cert shows almost nothing in terms of inclusions.

(Does AGS always say "Negligable" on the flourescence if there's none? I've never seen "none" or "N/A")

BTW: it's on hold for purchase Monday morning.

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 8:59:06 AM get_cut_not_ripped wrote:

I found another great diamond, which has an unusual situation. It's at WF, and it has just come in, just come back from AGS, and was graded a 'triple zero'. I was advised that this diamond may posses the marks to have it certified as 'A Cut Above' H&A, but that they wouldn't check that if I was purchasing at the current posted price of $6948. I was told if it was checked and passed, that it would go up approximately 20% in price, $8337, which I then wouldn't be able to afford. They're sending me inclusion photos, but would not send the H&A views as it's not considered one of their ACA as of yet.
----------------

This strikes me as odd. WF has a good reputation here, but if they could sell at 20% more they would. Since it just came back from the AGS, wouldn't if have been inscribed there if it was to be branded? A nice ideal from them that isn't quite h&a is a great way to save some money, but this sounds more like a sales pitch to me, and strange that they won't send h&a photos even if it's not branded. Are you sure what they're saying is what your understanding is?

 

[Superidealist]

If the hearts and arrows images are truly important to you, you could always have it sent to an appraiser who is qualified to confirm them. Alternatively, hearts and arrows viewers are very inexpensive. You could just look yourself.

 

[Jennifer5973]

yes--"Negligible" essentially means none. I wouldn't worry about it, really.

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

I'll have to agree with you Elmo. As a business person, I would never think to purchase something for resale, if I didn't know the true value of it to begin with. The "branding" and H&A credentials don't mean anythign to me, but fire, sparkle and scintillation mean everything though!! I only looked for H&A cause I thought it would produce more optical brilliance. If that's not the case, this one's a go, unless someone has an alternate or better deal that they've found.

 

[moremoremore]

Get cut...my girlfriend has just about the most amazing diamond I have ever seen. It is not a H&A b/c she "had" to have 2 carats and "had" to have a d or e color. (Please!)....They could not afford an H&A...IT is BY FAR the most amazing stone I have ever seen in my life...but will it bother you?

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

They're actually going to include the H&A viewer and and Idealscope for me with the purchase, which I'm told is only sent with the ACA's, normally, so I can see for myself, and use the 10 day return policy.

As far as the numbers, anything out there better than this?

Is this a good diamond by all other standards (-H&A)?

 

[noobie]

Well get cut, you already know what I think about this stone don't you

Are there better specs, yes. Will you be able to tell the difference, maybe side by side, but probably not. I might add you will probably have a hard time finding a stone like this of the same size a tthis $/carat.




You can always send it to an independent appraiser before paying and see for yourself as well. Don't forget to ask for the Pricescope discount.

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

I just got quotes on the appraisal, and it's a bit high ($150-200 range)....Do you all think this is necessary?

 

[noobie]

If you want to insure it you will need an appraisal after the ring is done. If you want a detialed analysis of the diamond to give you peace of mind, you may wish to check out Richard Sherwood in Florida. His reports have been posted here and are some of the most comprehensive I've seen. For a comprehsive report like Rich does, I think $150 is reasonable.




It's really up to you. If you want a quick cert check, (i.e match diamond with cert) those are usually much less.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Mara got a "Near ACA" diamond from WF that she is totally pleased with. And she said she got a "steal" of a price too.

WF is great about their return policy. You have 10 full days to inspect the diamond and spend time looking at it in all kinds of normal living types of light. If you decide not to keep it, just call them within the return period for a Return Authorization Number and the procedures you need to follow. The diamond does not have to physically be in the WF offices within the 10 day time frame. WF is also prompt with refunds as well. When I bought, I had them ship 2 diamonds, decided which one I wanted to keep, and got a full refund for the second diamond. Return shipping will only cost $20-$25 so it could be worth a look see.

 

[Lynn B]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 10:19:15 AM noobie wrote:


... Are there better specs, yes. Will you be able to tell the difference, maybe side by side, but probably not.

Noobie,
I am just curious about your post. What is it about the specs of this stone that could be "better"?

Thank you,
Lynn

 

[elmo]

If this is what they're really saying, doesn't it sound a little like these pitches:

"This ruby comes from Afghanistan but I think if we get an AGTA origin report it might come back as Burma and then the price will be 50% higher."

"The supplier thinks if they send this fancy intense yellow stone back to the GIA to have the color recheked it could come back fancy vivid and the price will double".

You can bet if there's any chance to raise the price like that it will go to the lab, more than once if needed.

 

[quaeritur]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 9:30:34 AM elmo wrote:

----------------
On 7/17/2004 8:59:06 AM get_cut_not_ripped wrote:

I found another great diamond, which has an unusual situation. It's at WF, and it has just come in, just come back from AGS, and was graded a 'triple zero'. I was advised that this diamond may posses the marks to have it certified as 'A Cut Above' H&A, but that they wouldn't check that if I was purchasing at the current posted price of $6948. I was told if it was checked and passed, that it would go up approximately 20% in price, $8337, which I then wouldn't be able to afford. They're sending me inclusion photos, but would not send the H&A views as it's not considered one of their ACA as of yet.
----------------

This strikes me as odd. WF has a good reputation here, but if they could sell at 20% more they would. Since it just came back from the AGS, wouldn't if have been inscribed there if it was to be branded? A nice ideal from them that isn't quite h&a is a great way to save some money, but this sounds more like a sales pitch to me, and strange that they won't send h&a photos even if it's not branded. Are you sure what they're saying is what your understanding is?
----------------

I don't think get_cut misunderstood. I've just been dealing with WF about a stone in their expert selection that doesn't quite meet their ACA criteria. It sounds like they've just received a batch of stones, and they're backed up. I guess it's possible that they're willing to sell this one before it gets branded as ACA. Better a bird in the hand, and all... however, I was a tad disappointed that they would not send me H&A pics for the stone I'm considering. Even if they're not selling it as an H&A, as a customer, I'd like to see how off the symmetry is, rather than guess at it. That said, they have been great about providing other pics, including side-by-side shots with another stone I was debating.

 

[Jenn]

---------------- I was a tad disappointed that they would not send me H&A pics for the stone I'm considering. Even if they're not selling it as an H&A, as a customer, I'd like to see how off the symmetry is, rather than guess at it. That said, they have been great about providing other pics, including side-by-side shots with another stone I was debating.

----------------

I have to say, this would turn me COMPLETELY off. You are spending thousands of dollars...a small fortune to the average American. The fact that they won't go out of their way for you and take the H&A pics is, IMO, just plain ridiculous.

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

I agree w/Jenn....this was a bit of a turn-off. Especially the fact that the whole thing might be a sales pitch to entice me. The specs along with the price are enticing enough without any additional "games"...granted they have a return policy, but the 5% PS discount is only if the funds are "wired" from a bank. Last time I did it that way, and I was at the bank for an hour, and I still have to wait for a refund now....if I could spare the other $200+/-, I would just purchase on a credit card and then I could probably get 2, compare them, and return one....unfortunately, I'm no Trump, so it doesn't work that way.

IMO, "Near ACA" or "could be ACA" is like 'almost pregnant'....or as they say in B&M terms "Near Ideal Cut"....hrmph

Hey homie, it's either Ideal or not....that's why they use number ranges. It's supposed to be an exact science!

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 10:41:27 PM Lynn B wrote:

----------------
On 7/17/2004 10:19:15 AM noobie wrote:








... Are there better specs, yes. Will you be able to tell the difference, maybe side by side, but probably not.

Noobie,
I am just curious about your post. What is it about the specs of this stone that could be 'better'?

Thank you,
Lynn

----------------

Lynn,

I answered that way for a few reasons.There are some that prefer shallower crown and pavilion angles and have been some very detailed discussion on that, but WF seems to like these.It scores mostly VGs and not Exs on the HCA.It is likely that it’s not a perfect H&A as no H&A photos are provided. But, I still think this could be a killer diamond! As a side note I do find it odd as well that a vendor would sell a tone for 20% less because they haven’t got around to sort the inventory very odd.

However, my main point was that this stone has a very good chance of being very beautiful and most people may not be able to notice the difference.I will be the first one to admit that I can’t tell the difference.Sure maybe side by side and under close scrutiny, but hand me one, take it away and then pass me the other.I doubt if I could pick them out any better than 50/50.

Also my point was that this stone is a very good value. If you want to maximize size and performance, this is a great candidate.It has a good spread and passes the 1.25 carat mark.I want to make it clear that I like this stone and it would be one of my top choices.However, people buy for their own reasons and get cut has his as well.No doubt his ring with that setting he chose will be stunning.

I wonder though with the intense scrutiny on numbers, images, and test scores how many stones that are very beautiful and so close that you can’t tell, but don’t fit specs perfectly will get left behind on on-line inventories because you can’t see them in person.How far does one take numbers and specs? When does science supercede romance?To each his/her own and that’s what makes it fun.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/17/2004 9:57:10 AM get_cut_not_ripped wrote:

I'll have to agree with you Elmo. As a business person, I would never think to purchase something for resale, if I didn't know the true value of it to begin with. ----------------

As a business person, 20% isn't a bunch more in the future. Q said it - bird in the hand. I do it all the time. If I get something in & I know the relative value, and I have a client for it right away, I'll flip it all day long for the immediate profit & then have more money to invest quickly into more stuff that will generate more profit. Plus, no time invested in any "tests" (research), etc. Plus, make a client happy. - win win all the way around.

No red flags to me at all.

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

ok, so let's all pretend you're me....and get real picky now....check out the specs on this diamond and realize that it'll be under $5100/ct which rocks! (no pun intended)....in the event it has great H&A, well, that's a bonus. I know Noobie likes this diamond alot. Anyone have anything negative to say about it? any drawbacks?

I'm not going to be walking around with an idealscope or H&A viewer to show our friends, that was only important to me cause I thought it would add more sparkle. if that's not the case, or it's barely noticable, I'm fine with this one.

BTW: They agreed to include an Idealscope and H&A viewer tool kit that would normally only come w/the ACA diamonds.

 

[Mara]

I already said this in my PM but get an IdealScope image for it, they WILL do this...many of their other Expert Selection stones have it so I don't know why they wouldn't for this one. The numbers on this stone are very nice, very very nice in fact so if the IS image supports what you see in the numbers, excellent! Also get an image of the stone itself, they will do this as well. It's magnified so you can see if there are going to be any inclusions, but then again Brian's stellar eye will find those anyway. I would trust his eye to help me choose a stone anyday!




The ES stones represent a great deal on excellently cut diamonds. IT may not be an H&A in WF's eyes or what I like to call an Almost ACA but in reality, if you see those arrows in the IS image and they look really hot, chances are it is pretty close to the H&A and your naked eye won't pick up a whit of difference. I see my arrows in my stone very clearly and the images I saw with my viewer were HOT...so to me it IS an H&A, just not purchased as one! Even better!

The price on this stone is very nice for the G color. I paid a similar amount minus a few hundred for my 1.29 H SI1, so I think the price is quite inline with what you should be paying.

 

[fire&ice]

Looks like a nice stone with nice spread.

But, again the clarity issue. To tell you the truth, only *your* superman vision can decide.

Do keep in mind. Though your initial stone possibly wouldn't hide the inclusions once set. Many Many side inclusions are hidden once set.

I do like your setting

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

Well, is Brian (WF) on this board? Is there a way to reach him directly?
Mara, could you talk to your buddy, there, and make sure they take care of me?

 

[Lynn B]

Get_Cut,

I don't know enough about the diamond industry to have any strong opinions about this transaction... my only input is that WF has SUCH a STELLAR reputation that I would trust them on it, and enjoy the savings. (I would also get an independent appraisal and spend those 10 days looking at the stone in every conceivable light source!

)

Now regarding the stone, I can tell you that my stone has almost identical specs: my table is 56% but the total depth, and crown and pav angles are identical. (This is why I asked Noobie for clarification on his earlier post.) It's a gorgeous H & A, AGS 0, AGA 1A diamond. It got an awesome report from an independent appraiser. I just don't think you can go wrong!

Lynn

 

[Mara]

Who are you working with at WF? Honestly, what you are asking for is not unsreasonable. If you tell them you are from Pricescope (if you have not already), and tell them that you NEED an IdealScope image and a stone image and you know others have gotten them on ES stones, I am sure they will do it for you.




I work with Brian or Lesley normally but I know Denise, Judi and Bob are excellent as well. They all are here on Pricescope as well.

 

[get_cut_not_ripped]

Thanks Lynn...good to know

Mara: I'm working with Henry over there. I was just saying if your friend Brian is so discerning, his opinion would really give me the assurance I needed to go ahead with this and purchase from them. If he's their 'diamond guru', he may not be as approachable as some of the other staff, and I was just wondering if you were that close, if you could ask him to help me out here.

 

[Mara]

From what I know, Brian looks at EVERY stone before the final sale is made and the stone ships. I would just tell Henry you want to have Brian eyeball the stones and call you to talk about it. Sometimes he gets a bit busy but he will do it.