shape
carat
color
clarity

After 10 years of dating

latte_espresso

Rough_Rock
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I think it's been time that I proposed. I'm surprised my girlfriend is still with me.

I've been chatting with a diamond retailer in the Diamond District in New York. My budget is $25k, so far i saw a round 2.07 ct ring, H, VS2, HCA 1.1 ring, excellent cut for $24.5K.

I also saw a few 1.7 - 1.8ct in the 17-18k range but figured "2" sounded better when proposing.

Is this deemed reasonable for the characteristics listed above? This is really pushing my spending limit which recently increased from $20K to $25k.
 

skypie

Brilliant_Rock
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Yes
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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What are the specs on the stone you found? We’re more interested in the angles on the stone plus any inclusions (because at that size of a rock, a bad inclusion could be something she will see every day she wears that rock).
 

latte_espresso

Rough_Rock
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What are the specs on the stone you found? We’re more interested in the angles on the stone plus any inclusions (because at that size of a rock, a bad inclusion could be something she will see every day she wears that rock).

Hey bmfang, thanks for responding. See below:
Depth: 59.4%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 32 degrees
Crown Heighht 13.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41 degrees
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower half: 80%
Girdle: medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet: None

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent

Florescence: None

Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, feather, knot, needle (no pictures)
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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60/60 stone (though it is incredibly shallow). This type of a stone will be more inclined to give you more white light return (brilliance) over flashes of colour (fire). It’s not a stone I personally prefer, but that’s me (you and your SO may prefer this type of a stone). If you haven’t already seen the stone, you should try to get images of the stone to see if the crystal inclusions are sitting under the table. I’m also not too inclined to pick up stones with knot inclusions in it unless I know where they aren’t located on an inclusion plot. Has the jeweller given you a lab grading report number? Going by the above format, it would appear to be GIA graded (and at that size, the report would show an inclusion plot).

Usually would prefer to see stones with specs in the following ranges to give a stone an optimal balance between brilliance and fire:
Table: 52-57%
Depth: 60-62.5%
Crown angle: 34-35 degrees (though sometimes a 35.5 CA can work with a 40.6 PA)
Pavilion angle: 40.2 to 41 degrees (though if you have a PA of 41, you would want a CA closer to 34)
 

HappyNewLife

Ideal_Rock
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I think for a 60/60 diamond, you should be able to pay less than 24.5k (plus sales tax) on a 2.07 H/VS2. I could be wrong, but 60/60 diamonds usually provide better value. I bought 2 1.7 carat 60/60 diamonds a few years ago and loved them (they were a great value), but they were definitely not fiery like my Whiteflash diamond is.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Hey bmfang, thanks for responding. See below:
Depth: 59.4%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 32 degrees
Crown Heighht 13.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41 degrees
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower half: 80%
Girdle: medium, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet: None

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent

Florescence: None

Clarity Characteristics: Crystal, feather, knot, needle (no pictures)

This stone doesn't have the criteria we normally recommend to be within ideal range. The GIA XXX is broad and bmfang provided you with the ranges that we normally stick with. I wouldn't say you're getting a deal either. I love the 2 WF stones that HNL posted but will throw out a few others for your consideration:

I recommended this stone in another thread for someone's upgrade and the only reason they weren't able to buy it was because they didn't have the funds. I found the ASET on another site and BN even price matched the other price of $20,700 which is a savings of thousands!!! It's an amazing value.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab
ASET and lower price here: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...4-Carat-H-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-080Z64841

Another pretty option: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4625294
Looks like this is a HOF stone which are usually marked up considerably. If eye clean, could be a great candidate: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3634623
Largest and beautiful if eye clean with no transparency issues: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4664841
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4690466
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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The HOF stone that @ac117 found on JA is astounding value. It is one of their “Sensational” line stones that appears to have been traded in by someone. Given than a 1ct Sensational stone in a signature HOF solitaire in platinum is currently retailing for around AUD$18k (around USD$14k at current exchange rates), the USD$20k price for a 2ct stone is impressive (likely to be less after wire discount and mentioning pricescope to a JA sales associate). At least you know you are getting a stone which has superideal proportions.

I would be expecting HOF to be slugging someone around the USD$30-35k mark (or more) for a stone in a platinum solitaire at the retail level given their stupendous markups.

Main factor for clarity is a cloud that is off to the side near the girdle and would be something you could prong over with the setting. The only thing that would raise concern for me is the mention of additional clouds not shown and whether that would affect transparency. Going by the ASET, it may not, but an IS on it would put my mind at ease if I was in the market for such a 2ct stone.
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
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Read through the "Education" section at niceice.com. http://niceice.com/diamond-buying-secrets/engagement-ring-shopping-30-minutes-or-less/ In the 5 min and 15 minute sections, he gives a very short course about how to pick a diamond by the numbers that will be a top performer. His selection criteria are *very* narrow, and there certainly are some nice diamonds that are outside of that range. But that will hopefully distill the advice that PS will give you. There is also an old thread on here that has "Cheat sheet for rounds" as or in the title. Read that, too. On Pricescope, "cut is king" and color, clarity, and carat weight are areas to possibly make compromises in order to fit the budget. NiceIce used to be a Pricescope vendor when I joined PS (2004 or 2005.) You can see some of their diamonds in the e-ring thread.

When you start hitting carat breakpoints like 1.5ct, 2ct, even 1ct,m etc, you start to see lots of diamonds that were deliberately cut to retain carat weight instead of have more shaved off of them to become the top tier or super-ideal performers with ideal symmetry, polish, and so on. Sure, 2 carats sounds great, but keep in mind that carat is a weight. You still need to look at the dimensions, the proportions, the angles, the symmetry, how the minor facets affect the personality of the diamond. There are a lot of deep diamonds at those breakpoints that have the diameter of a smaller carat weight, but you pay a premium just to hit the 2ct or whatever mark. In some cases, you'd be better off to just get a superideal 1.8 or 1.9 ct that fits the "cheat sheet" parameters and scores 2 or less on the HCA tool. Pricescope vendors' in-house inventory is a good place to look for the extremely well-cut and best performing, and also the eyeclean SI1 and SI2 diamonds. GIA 3X is a very broad range that includes some steep/deep diamonds and others that are not the best cut or best performing. AGS 000 is much more likely to be a sure bet.
 
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Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I would be expecting HOF to be slugging someone around the USD$30-35k mark (or more) for a stone in a platinum solitaire at the retail level given their stupendous markups.
:think:...But does it have a HoF logo on the girdle?
1200x1200_1302881572545-HeartsOnFire.jpg
 

bmfang

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According to the AGS report for the stone, hearts on Fire is inscribed onto the girdle along with a serial number which would have originally been linked to a HoF Diamond Identity Document. Dunno how old this stone actually is though.
 

Dancing Fire

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According to the AGS report for the stone, hearts on Fire is inscribed onto the girdle along with a serial number which would have originally been linked to a HoF Diamond Identity Document. Dunno how old this stone actually is though.
I remember many yrs ago every HoF stone was inscribed with an HoF logo on its girdle. Maybe not these days?
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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I had heard that as well but as you said things may have changed.
 

latte_espresso

Rough_Rock
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That's an interesting find on the HoF, I actually never heard of them.

I understand diamonds are forever, but what are the implications of purchasing a potential "old" diamond? Will there be any color discoloration or damages to the diamond?

Also, not sure if there is a dictionary for this industry's acronyms, but what is an "IS"? In the context of "Going by the ASET, it may not, but an IS on it would put my mind at ease if I was in the market for such a 2ct stone."
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I don't love that HoF diamond because I don't like the clarity. Plus, your budget allows for VS2. And it is to your advantage to buy outside of NY if you live in NY.

Your budget is perfect for either of these superideal cut stones from a very respected vendor (also posted above by HappyNewLife). They also have beautiful settings. These diamonds are far and away better than the stone you posted in your first post and also H VS2.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3956080.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3907532.htm
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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We usually call Hearts on Fire stones 'Wallets on Fire' because they're significantly marked up and overpriced but they are super ideal beautiful diamonds. We recommend people go to their local HOF retailer to view these stones against GIA XXX stones to see if they have a preference/see differences.

IS - Ideal scope. You could learn more here: https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-analytics-1535.htm
 

diamondseeker2006

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I think he'd pay sales tax at James Allen, so that's why I think the WF stones are the best option.
 

SimoneDi

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I think he'd pay sales tax at James Allen, so that's why I think the WF stones are the best option.

Ah, good point. WF diamonds are beautiful and the upgrade options can’t be beat.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Not if he's shipping outside of NY - he could have potentially visited the NY diamond district but shipping to NJ or CT, for example.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks AC, the plan would be to have the diamond shipped out of state.

That's great! The 2.41 is a beautiful option - maybe you could also contact IDJ (I.D. Jewelry in the NY diamond district /PS recommended vendor) and see if that stone is in NY for evaluation. They could provide light return images and likely beat JA pricing. You wouldn't pay tax either since you're shipping out of state.
 

latte_espresso

Rough_Rock
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That's great! The 2.41 is a beautiful option - maybe you could also contact IDJ (I.D. Jewelry in the NY diamond district /PS recommended vendor) and see if that stone is in NY for evaluation. They could provide light return images and likely beat JA pricing. You wouldn't pay tax either since you're shipping out of state.

Thanks. I was looking at it as well. 2.41 does seem massive. But in regards to fluorescence, how important is it? It said that it "Strong" and I always thought the less fluorescence the better.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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As long as the fluorescence doesn't cause the diamond to look hazy/milky, there are zero concerns with it. It's another reason why the stone should be evaluated by a gemologist to confirm how eye clean it is and that there are no negative effects of the fluorescence. I have a 3.24 G VS2 with strong fl and absolutely love - no issues and because the market doesn't currently favor fluorescence, I reaped the benefits of a lower price point for a fabulous stone!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I like the 2.41 a lot if that size is within the range of size she'd like. That's great that you don't live in NY, in that case!

My hesitation is waiting to contact someone to call that stone in unless he already reached them today. Because it is possible that stone will go fast.

I agree on fluorescence. It's a bonus in my view!
 

latte_espresso

Rough_Rock
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I'm going to check out ID J in the diamond district. Will take a look at a 2.4 ct stone is too the size in person. I initially was planning to do something between 1.6 - 2.0 and eventually settled on closer to a ~2.0.

I'll keep you guys posted! Thanks!
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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I'm going to check out ID J in the diamond district. Will take a look at a 2.4 ct stone is too the size in person. I initially was planning to do something between 1.6 - 2.0 and eventually settled on closer to a ~2.0.

I'll keep you guys posted! Thanks!

Exciting (take pics!)!!! I love to visit IDJ!!! Yekutiel is excellent, as is the rest of their team =)2
 

latte_espresso

Rough_Rock
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Hi guys, after talking to Shulmi and Yekutiel, yesterday, they went through my criteria and showed me a few diamonds, but I wasn't too enthusiastic with the ones they had in stock.

Shuli reached out to me last night with this one, which i think could be a contender. Obviously I need to take a look in person.
 

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ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Hi guys, after talking to Shulmi and Yekutiel, yesterday, they went through my criteria and showed me a few diamonds, but I wasn't too enthusiastic with the ones they had in stock.

Shuli reached out to me last night with this one, which i think could be a contender. Obviously I need to take a look in person.

The new stone definitely seems like a solid contender! All the numbers are right and H/VS1 is an excellent combo. I would ask them to call in the stone and take light return images for you to post here.
 
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