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Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement ring

H

HardHitter

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
4
Hello All

I have been dating my girlfriend now for now 4 years when August comes around and I am planning on popping the question. I have been researching diamonds online and what you should be looking for to get the best for your budget.

My current budget is $12,000-$15,000. I know that she likes a Cushion diamond with a halo setting so that is what I have been looking for.

I'm trying to make sure I get the best diamond for my budget and I'm looking for everyone's feedback based upon your experience and what you ended up with. Below are my "characteristic demands" but things have actually changed now that I've gone into a store and looked.

Carat: With my budget and the following characteristics below, I'm looking at potentially a diamond of 1.5 and the halo being around .5.

Color: Range I'm looking in is from D - H

Cut: Range I'm looking in is from Good to Signature Ideal

Clarity: I'm looking at any diamond that is SI2 and above. From my understanding, the SI range has imperfections that potentially are able to be seen by an unaided eye. If I were to get a diamond in this range, I would be inspecting the diamond for these imperfections with an unaided eye.

UPDATED: I just got back from a store and spent a few hours looking at multiple cushion diamonds. One item they noted was that with cushion diamonds, you don't really have a "cut" scale characteristic. Is this true? They explained that you can have a deep or shallow depth. A diamond that has a more shallow cut would look bigger than a deeper cut depth.

Anyway, here are some diamonds I looked at:

- 1.5C, G rated, SI1 6.9 x 6.7 - $11,476
Looked bigger than 1.5 due to shallower cut, great sparkle. No inclusions I could see without the loupe. This ended up being the diamond I compared everything to.

- 1.5C, H rated, SI1 6.68 x 6.46 - $9.891
Comparing this to the diamond above, the diamond looked smaller and I just didn't like this one.

- 1.51, G rated, VS2 6.64 x 6.64 - $11,703
Once again, compared to the first diamond, there wasn't enough "visual quality change" to spend the extra money.

- 1.52, D rated, SI3 (they rated this in between a SI2 and I) 6.76 x 6.58 -$8,512
So this is the diamond I actually ended up putting a deposit on for them to hold for a week. When comparing it to the first diamond, it made the first diamond look to have a slightly yellow tint. There is a single inclusion in the middle of the diamond however unable to see looking at the diamond without the loupe. It sparkles just as good, if not better than the $11,476 diamond.

Although I've made a deposit, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts and any recommendations.

Thank you in advance!
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Given that the D diamond you put a deposit on has an SI3 clarity, I can tell that probably none of the diamonds are GIA-graded. This is a problem because labs other than GIA or AGS are known for "cut inflation" and being somewhat lax with clarity grades. GIA is the gold standard, and there are no "SI3" clarity stones in GIA's graded scale, so it's likely that by GIA grading standards that stone would be an I1, at best. Given that it was not submitted to GIA for grading, I'd say it's a safe bet.

Why is this important? Because the other labs don't grade consistently. You could get the same grade as GIA, or 5 grades off. Since YOU don't know, it's impossible for you to find price comparisons.

For instance, the most expensive cushion D SI3 I found on the Pricescope diamond search is $5774. Meanwhile, the GIA-graded D SI2 cushions are around the price that one is. Are you paying a fair price for a strangely-graded stone, or are you overpaying by nearly $3k?
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

I appreciate your feedback on the diamond I put a deposit on. And to be honest, that was my concern as well. Do people often return their diamonds? My Dad says that most people don't return their diamonds, but more re-purpose them and then buy a new diamond. The diamond I put a deposit on is not GIA-graded. They explicitly told me up front before showing me the diamond. The rating that I provided you was the rating based upon their own ratings (they said it was on the boarder of a SI2 and I).

Perhaps it is a sales tactic, but I went through 4-5 rounds of 3-4 diamonds each round and from the first round until the last, I always chose the $11,476 diamond as the best. In comparison to the $11,476 diamond, from a naked eye, viewing at all angles, it "looked" superior in all ways. Comparing side by side, the $11,476 diamond now showed a yellow tint in comparison to the $8,512 diamond. Yes, the $8,512 diamond had an inclusion in the middle of the diamond, however from the naked eye you're unable to tell.

Maybe I am going about this all wrong, but how often do people get caught up in all these characteristic ratings. The way that I wanted to go about choosing a diamond, was for the sales person to bring out 5-6 diamonds all the same/similar carat size and then a mix of all different characteristics. From there, I would just look and rate which one I liked best and then I wanted to see the ratings. This is similar to what I did with the diamonds but the $8,512 diamond looked better than the $11,476 diamond. If you can't tell the different between the two diamonds with the naked eye, I'm trying to understand the reasoning for paying ~$3k more for the GIA rated diamond even though it doesn't look as good.

Still open to everyone's opinion. Are you paying for the ratings or the actual "look" of the diamond.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Getting to choose from a dozen cushions is a nice perk of shopping in person. however, it does require that there are nice cushions in the bunch. If all your choices are either poor or mediocre, then the best possible outcome is that you can do is choose a mediocre stone.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Hmmm.... Can you get the deposit back and contact Good Old Gold instead?
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

lioness|1402717231|3692904 said:
Hmmm.... Can get the deposit back and contact Good Old Gold instead?
Click to expand...

The deposit it fully refundable. I'm wanting to work through and see the diamond in person. I have used places like Bluenile and JamesAllen to price out, but in the end, I'll never know how the diamond is until I see it in person.

I'm planning to propose the first week of August, so I don't know how fast it is for those sites to send the diamond once selected and if I end up not liking the diamond, then how that process works.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Where are you? GoG is on Long Island.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

lioness|1402718111|3692919 said:
Where are you? GoG is on Long Island.
Click to expand...

I'm in Northern California. The place I was at today is Joe Escobar Diamonds. A well respected diamond place in the area here.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Joe Escobar is highly regarded around here. I hope the PSers who have purchased there chime in.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

re: cut performance, check out the cushion guide:
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/cushion-cut-diamond
Especially look at the video guide, as it has representative examples of several different styles of cushion and will help you train your eyes. It's half an hour long but has a TON of information.

And here is one on diamond color:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcmSj8dOLRI

HardHitter|1402708724|3692833 said:
Maybe I am going about this all wrong, but how often do people get caught up in all these characteristic ratings.
Click to expand...

Well, they determine a whole lot of the price, so if you're wanting to ensure you're paying a fair price, they matter a lot...

Since we don't have any pictures of the diamonds and can't judge a thing about what fancy shapes look like without them, basically all I can comment on is price and the fact that since they're not lab-graded the grades don't even really count too much.

If you want commentary on cut from the internet, get your cameraphone, a loupe (you can probably borrow your jeweler's), and take pics of the stones from face-on with the loupe held in front of the camera on your phone. It's a pretty neat way to get good pics, and your fiancee will be impressed if you take a close-up pic of her ring that way once you're engaged so she can text it to her friends.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

HardHitter|1402708724|3692833 said:
I appreciate your feedback on the diamond I put a deposit on. And to be honest, that was my concern as well. Do people often return their diamonds? My Dad says that most people don't return their diamonds, but more re-purpose them and then buy a new diamond. The diamond I put a deposit on is not GIA-graded. They explicitly told me up front before showing me the diamond. The rating that I provided you was the rating based upon their own ratings (they said it was on the boarder of a SI2 and I).

Perhaps it is a sales tactic, but I went through 4-5 rounds of 3-4 diamonds each round and from the first round until the last, I always chose the $11,476 diamond as the best. In comparison to the $11,476 diamond, from a naked eye, viewing at all angles, it "looked" superior in all ways. Comparing side by side, the $11,476 diamond now showed a yellow tint in comparison to the $8,512 diamond. Yes, the $8,512 diamond had an inclusion in the middle of the diamond, however from the naked eye you're unable to tell.

Maybe I am going about this all wrong, but how often do people get caught up in all these characteristic ratings. The way that I wanted to go about choosing a diamond, was for the sales person to bring out 5-6 diamonds all the same/similar carat size and then a mix of all different characteristics. From there, I would just look and rate which one I liked best and then I wanted to see the ratings. This is similar to what I did with the diamonds but the $8,512 diamond looked better than the $11,476 diamond. If you can't tell the different between the two diamonds with the naked eye, I'm trying to understand the reasoning for paying ~$3k more for the GIA rated diamond even though it doesn't look as good.

Still open to everyone's opinion. Are you paying for the ratings or the actual "look" of the diamond.
Click to expand...

Hi HH and welcome!

Just to expound on the SI3 grade, SI3 is a clarity grade created and used by EGL labs, EGL are said to grade less strictly than GIA or AGS, the latter 2 labs are considered to be the gold standard for diamond grading. This means that your EGL SI3 could be graded I1 or even lower if GIA graded the diamond, something to think about. Same with colour, if graded by GIA, the stone could grade lower there too, but if you like an EGL graded diamond better than any others you see then make any sale final on the stone checking out for colour and clarity grading with an independent appraiser.

Joe Escobar have an excellent rep so you are in good hands there. Distracts posted an excellent tutorial for cushion cuts and there are also a couple of very useful videos you can watch linked on the page which will give you a good overview of the different types and appearances of this shape.

I hope this helps!
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Hey OP
Hope you have read, and re-read Charmypoo's post, she wrote the book on this stuff. This will help you a lot. She is absolutely one of the best on this forum.
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

Here's the thing, you saw the stone, and liked it best. That's incredibly important and should lead you from here. If you are confident this is the stone, I would ask the vendor to get it GIA rated. Should it grade lower than expected, they should come to the bargaining table, prepared to make a price concession. If it rates correctly or better, ask them to split the cost of the cert. You have some time. You never know what you may do with this ring in the future, and should you wish to trade up, or realize its cash value, you need a cert.

One other thing I will share. A few years back, I bought a GIA I VS1 cushion. The stone spread exceptionally well for its 3.01 size and on paper, it was a very good stone. However, over time, I noticed that if the stone was the slightest bit dirty or in the wrong light, it fell flat. It was the worst performing stone I've ever owned and on paper, this was a well cut stone. I finally sold it. Cushions are tough, and the reason why I prefer antique cushions over modern cut cushions. Bottom line, you need to have a good gut instinct about the stone, and a cert.

Good luck- very exciting!
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

CharmyPoo|1402742582|3693001 said:
Read this .... to learn more about cushions.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/[/URL]
Click to expand...


Charmy, I have just discovered your fantastic work above thanks to Willy posting it above, I wanted to offer my congratulations to you, what a brilliant and informative piece of work!!!!!!!!! It's thorough, easy to understand and refer to, just what's needed here for cushion threads and I know I will post it often to help others buying cushions! :appl: :appl:
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

OP, you came to the right place.
Charmy, reading your guide - first time for me, too. What a fabulous amount of information!
 
Re: Advised to come here for diamond expertise - engagement

moneymeister|1402773737|3693256 said:
OP, you came to the right place.
Charmy, reading your guide - first time for me, too. What a fabulous amount of information!
Click to expand...

Isn't she amazing!!!! :appl:
 
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