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Advice on this old mine cut - pre owned

Chatz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
34
hello

This diamond has caught my eye but I’m an absolute novice on old mine cut stones (not even sure if this is one). It’s GIA certified, L colour. Any opinions please? There is a video link in the listing also:
https://www.haveyouseenthering.com/4-28-ct-old-mine-cut-platinum-ring

My questions are:
- colour: do these cuts make diamonds face up whiter? I wouldn’t normally consider an L
- is this asking price reasonable/ in the range of reasonable?
- what ‘next steps’ would you recommend I take to assess the stone further if I was to seriously consider making an offer.

Many thanks!
 

Austina

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
3,459
Having looked at numerous OECs at Old World Diamonds in NY last week, including a fellow PSers L, I was amazed at how white they face up.

Of course, that also depends on your sensitivity to colour, but WOW I was blown away.

If you decide not to go with this ring, definitely contact OWD, because they really have some seriously gorgeous stones in your price range.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,578
Looks gobsmackingly gorgeous to me.
And yes. OEC cuts do appear whiter than their “grade” but in any case the slight warm tone they might have is part of the beauty.
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,858
Strictly speaking it’s probably an OEC rather than an old mine. It’s pretty gorgeous tho it’s quite shallow (55%) and the table is huge (65%) so you won’t get the classic flower petals under the table you normally see with OECs. Great coverage for the price tho!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,193
It has quite a cool, chunky look! You could ask Yoram about whether he'd be able to recut to more OEC-like proportions/faceting?
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
27,772
hello

This diamond has caught my eye but I’m an absolute novice on old mine cut stones (not even sure if this is one). It’s GIA certified, L colour. Any opinions please? There is a video link in the listing also:
https://www.haveyouseenthering.com/4-28-ct-old-mine-cut-platinum-ring

My questions are:
- colour: do these cuts make diamonds face up whiter? I wouldn’t normally consider an L
- is this asking price reasonable/ in the range of reasonable?
- what ‘next steps’ would you recommend I take to assess the stone further if I was to seriously consider making an offer.

Many thanks!
I would recommend seeing more old cut stones in person if possible. This is not the classic faceting pattern and it is SI clarity so I would be concerned if it was truly eye clean or not. You should get a feel and see more "flavors" of old cuts to see what you love and what you don't love. It's challenging to buy online and especially if you aren't familiar with old cuts in general. You need to see what makes your heart go pitter patter. Generally yes old cuts tend to face up whiter than their modern counterparts but it really needs to be evaluated in person as it depends on the stone. But the chunkier faceting is more forgiving re color generally IMO.

I second @Austina's rec of contacting Adam @oldworlddiamonds for beautiful genuine OECs and OMCs and if you want precision cutting @OoohShiny 's rec of contacting Yoram is also a good one.

Good luck and have fun with it. And get a sense of what you love before you buy.
 

kgizo

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
1,442
I like the color and I think the price is fair (I recently bought a loose 3.96 L VS2 from OWD for less than this so depends on how you value the setting, difference in cut, and if your seller will negotiate). The setting is pretty. My personal preference is that OECs be deeper with a smaller table. Like others have said its best to judge in hand instead of photos so be sure to understand the return policy. If you decide to look at othe vendors I suggest OWD and Parks Fine Group.
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,192
SOrry did not see the video link. In the pics, the center looks dead. Yes an L can face up very white in many environments, but not EVERY environment. The color gives the stone a “glow”. Like many posters have said already you should see IN PERSON before committing that much money. First start with a vendor that knows old cuts. OWD, LAD, JBG, and consider if you haven’t newly cut oec style stones at August Vintage and Victor Canera if you want maximum light performance.
 

scoutfinch

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2005
Messages
161
I’m certainly not an expert but from my own experience, it was so helpful and informative to look at folks already recommended here like LoveAffairDiamonds and Old World Diamonds. Old cuts are so beautifully unique each in their own way. That is a showstopper at such a huge size! The L color doesn’t concern me but personally I like a smaller table and a nice puffy top!
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,789
The center looks as though it's a "pinwheel" look rather than the petal, flowery look. Erica had pointed this out to me a few years ago - the difference in pattern. I would suggest you go to Loveaffairdiamonds.com. Study the videos she has taken of the various diamonds, you can see the facet patterns. With the budget you're proposing, I would continue looking around. Adam can show you some beauties. His inventory is really something! Good luck to you.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
584
hello

This diamond has caught my eye but I’m an absolute novice on old mine cut stones (not even sure if this is one). It’s GIA certified, L colour. Any opinions please? There is a video link in the listing also:
https://www.haveyouseenthering.com/4-28-ct-old-mine-cut-platinum-ring

My questions are:
- colour: do these cuts make diamonds face up whiter? I wouldn’t normally consider an L
- is this asking price reasonable/ in the range of reasonable?
- what ‘next steps’ would you recommend I take to assess the stone further if I was to seriously consider making an offer.

Many thanks!
1). It’s not an Old Mine Cut. It’s a Circular Brilliant (see GIA lab report). It’s possibly an Early Modern Brilliant, so possibly from the 1940s. It looks like EMBor Transitional to me, due to its large table and shallow depth. It could be a Transitional, due to its blocky facets. An Old Mine Cut is typically VERY deep with a very high Crown and small table and this stone is the opposite. My experience is that 60/60 stones (yours is a 65/55) reflect whiter light, so the stone appears whiter. OMCs in my opinion show color more, because of their depth. A GIA “L” can look very light and beautiful given the right cut. You will have to observe the stone in person to see if you like the color.

If you like the faceting on this stone, I’d take a look in person. The cut will give you a larger stone for the money. I don’t see any obvious flaws, like a dead center, even though it’s a pinwheel look, not a snowflake or flower as mentioned above.

Asking price seems a little higher in the range than I would expect for that cut/color/clarity/size. You should review Jewels by Grace, Love Affair Diamonds, and Old World Diamonds, and James Allen 60/60 stones for price comparatives on the 3Cs.

Next steps after investigating price comps would be 1) put stone on hold, 2) get a video and post it here. This will allow us to see if there are obvious cut problems. 3) then, with at least a two week return period, call it in and see it for yourself (you may want to take additional videos and post here).

Last, I forgot to say: if you are just starting out on an “old cut” quest, I’d suggest you take some time before you commit to a stone. Find out what types of cuts and colors you like. ($33k is not small change for something that you might not want after you are more exposed to what’s out there.) See things in person, for example at Antique Jewelry Shows, or at vendors.

My old cut journey involved years of looking and purchasing with a balancing act of price, desired type of cut, color and size and clarity characteristics and a patience for scarcity and luck.

Pricescope members will tell you and show you what is the “perfect” (popular) Old Cut and those types of cuts will be expensive and rare. You will wait a long time if you are trying to find an prototypical excellent cut in that size. Period. Some vendors will have the requisite honesty, experience and skills to develop an inventory that is fairly priced and authentic. (Vendors recommended on Pricescope usually will know their stuff). Some vendors will not know what they are talking about (eg posting a description on their diamond that says Old Mine Cut when the actual lab certificate says Modern Brilliant) so you should post anything you have a question about here.

IMO this stone has promise, but you should start with the knowledge that this is not what you might have had in mind when looking for an OMC. Also, because it’s an Early Modern Brilliant or a Transitional with a large table, it’s not going to have the perfect light return that might matter to you once you become more educated about diamond cut types. You should put it through the Holloway Cut Advisor, in considering this particular type of cut (EMB/Transitional), as one of your points to consider. The GIA lab report doesn’t indicate crown (likely very shallow) and pavilion angles (likely shallow too), which makes me suspect it’s not got excellent light return, but that fact may be superseded by how you like the cut/faceting. Good Luck!
 
Last edited:

scarsmum

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Messages
888
Just personally I once inquired about a ring a long time ago. The same certificate was being used for at least two of the rings she advertised. Diamond direct buy I think is her website. She’s not someone to trust.
 

Chatz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
34
Thank you all so so much!! Especially re: the vendor. I realised when I enquired about the stone and she came back offering other options (some of which were clarity enhanced) that this wasn’t a genuine pre-owned ring and that it was a business. I didn’t get a good feeling and she wasn’t negotiable anyway - so onwards and upwards!!

My search for old cuts has just begun but my search for an upgrade stone has been going for around 6 years now - I’m a little fatigued Challenge is that I’m in Australia and our options for reasonably priced stones are limited - so my search has usually centred online where I’ve not been able to see anything on the hand.

I guess all the more reason to deal with a reputable vendor. I will check out those listed above (thank you again) and also probably start a journey with a couple of jewellers in Perth.

Can’t thank you enough!
 

Jimmianne

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
5,242
I was happy when it turned out that the stone was no longer an option. It did not look as though it would perform, but maybe they were just bad photos.
I suggest we post photos of our old cuts here to give the OP some of the flavors.
xxx_0.jpg
 

stonewell

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
989
Glad you’re considering some other options too.... If you’re still looking for an old mine cut, Erica just recently got this stone in that is amazing, imo

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/3-76ct-antique-cushion-cut-diamond-ags-pending-est-o-p-vs/

I just received this OEC from her last week

0BC7F534-78CE-4392-AE9D-B77D2271BAEA.jpeg 506FAB6A-5E49-4E75-982B-9DE5C8C8E9B7.jpeg

Another vendor that I don’t believe was listed before is Ivy & Rose, based in Chicago. https://ivyandrose.com/

Ilya is fantastic to work with and I’ve made several purchases from him. This is a 1.2ct OMC that’s currently being set
93EE6CE8-9E29-475E-9996-CF84D9361EB0.jpeg 8733CE5D-3403-4979-925A-545BA6843011.jpeg
 

Mamabean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2018
Messages
5,341
TE="Jimmianne, post: 4387912, member: 74196"]Oh - I just saw your question. The one I posted is an L and faces up white in person. 27C4AC4D-B69F-4F24-A3E5-AA1396AB29F5.jpeg [/QUOTE]
Jimmianne..I have the matching bracelet to your wedding band! I’ll try to take a pic!

8081C2EE-954C-4EA4-BD9E-344378A5B6E8.jpeg
 

Attachments

DanniiD

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
26
I am also from Australia and I purchased a well priced OEC - 2.14cts OP color from Adam at Old World Diamonds. I had the opportunity to visit his NY office but I would highly recommend him - he showed me lots of stones and I absolutely love the stone I chose every time I look at it.
Good Luck.

B8F0EA8E-77AD-41FD-8400-92DC7413982B.jpeg F6A66097-073D-48AA-99DA-A5A9D793D3E9.jpeg Screen Shot 2018-08-08 at 2.13.11 PM.png DSC07053.JPG
 
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