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Advice on third carat blue nile signature diamond.

T

Tanisovic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
6
Hi everyone!
My first post here. So here it goes.
I just bought a diamond. Now I have read a little bit in this forum and I see that 0.34 ct is peanuts for most here :wink2: but it is a big deal for me and it fulfills the D/IF requirement, which I think has a nice symbolic touch.
It is a Blue Nile Signature, here is the link with the GIA and GCAL reports (http://www.bluenile.com/de/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-d-colour-if-clarity_LD02677021). I know Blue Nile says every one of their signature diamonds is h&a. My heart is really set on a hearts and arrows stone, but I have no idea how to identify the pattern and verify that the stone is indeed h&a without having any instruments.
I have the stone here and I like the look of it, although I can't really judge if it has more fire and sparkle than any other diamond. I guess reading a lot about diamonds is only worth so much, when you don't really have the experience of how they should actually look. I would like your opinions on the stone based on the certificates and then I would like to know what I can do to verify that it actually is a h&a stone and that it is the right one... I don't mean to sound stupid, but what do I do in the 30 day period I have to find out, if I like the stone enough to use it on an engagement ring? Do I just look at it in different lighting or what? Could you help based on photos? If so I would gladly upload images, although you would have to tell me if there's anything special I have to do while taking the pictures.
Thanks so much in advance for your help. Just read my text again and I sound totally dumb, but I guess I am just a little helpless.
Tan
 
You can't verify it without an H&A viewer but your stone comes with pictures on the GCAL report.

You can go to your local jewelers and compare in person to see if they have anything you like better.
 
Photos would certainly help... plus we here on PS LOVE photos :) Usual advice given out here is that you can get a much larger stone if you compromise on clarity and color, but there are a few people that choose to get a D IF stone because of the symbolism. From your post, it sounds like that is the reason you went with that combination, correct? If so, then yes, keep the stone, look at it in different environments, and if you're happy, then keep it. Have you picked a setting?
 
Thank you for your quick answers! I know, I have the GCAL report here and when looking at it it somehow looks like it has hearts on that one image, but I guess I need a proper viewer. Okay so I will try to find such a viewer... not so easy, I am located in Germany and it seems like these viewers aren't really popular here. I will try a jeweller I guess...

This is the setting.



She loves that ring, so that one is decided. I "just" have to make up my mind, if I like the stone...

With regard to color and clarity: I know and I am somewhat unsure. At first I only looked for D/IF because of the symbolism. That's why I ordered the stone - I wanted to get the best of the best. That's why I didn't order at Whiteflash or James Allen, because they didn't have any h&a D/IF in that size. Now I don't really know, if I shouldn't just compromise in clarity and color and get a Whiteflash ACA 0.5 ct diamond. That would also mean I could take the second setting from the left, which I like a little more than the one on the far left.

This is the stone - not really an expert photographer. I will probably just get my real camera out tomorrow and will upload better quality pictures.

_992.jpg
 

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Just a comment about D/IF being some kind of symbol of perfection: it is a construct. It is all just branding and marketing. A couple of generations ago, the ads were for half carat stones being a symbol of engagement. When I was growing up, every woman should have a one carat stone. Then there was the right hand ring for strong and empowered women. In some countries, D/IF is marketed for its rarity. These campaigns are meant to persuade people to buy a certain kind of diamond.

Just buy what appeals to you, or would make her happy.
 
it's hard to decide what appeals to me :wink2: especially since when you shop online, you don't really see how the stones look in real life... this is the first stone I ordered so I am just lacking comparison...

I know that there are certain trends and specific marketing. But I also know that when you go to a jeweller here, all you are usually offered is G/SI. For more you have to be quite specific and demanding and then they charge a lot (a lot= 0.53 ct, D, VVS1, h&a = 5.500 EUR). So I like knowing that if I buy a D/IF/h&a online, then that is rarer than what you usually get, when you buy on the streets. and that seems appropriate for an engagement ring to me...

thank you all for your replies so far. keep them coming. I will try to upload better images tommorrow.
 
There are a few things you can do during your evaluation period. First, go into a store with your stone, tell them you have this particular one and that you would like to compare it to what they have. At first don't tell them what you paid. If they ask, just say that you would like to look at a few stones before you divulge the price. Ask them to show you what they have in the ~0.4ct D/FI range (by the way, calling ahead to see if they have something may be a good idea). Then simply compare how the stones look to you. If yours keeps coming out on top, then you know you have a winner. If you see a stone you like more, then use the price of your current stone to try to negotiate the price of the stone that you like more.

Another thing you can do is figure out what other stones may fit in your budget. For example (and these numbers are arbitrary) maybe for the same amount that you paid for your d/fi, you could get a 0.75 f/vs1, or a 1ct h/si1. Then go to a store and ask to see stones with those exact characteristics to compare to what you have. Symbolism is nice, but so is a considerably bigger stone that may not look all that different to the naked eye. At least at that point you can decide if you want to stay with the d/fi or if you are willing to compromise.

The key theng to remember is that you have a reference point (the stone that you bought). Use that to your advantage.
 
I still consider F VS1 to be a very high quality stone. I'd rather have a larger F VS1 than a smaller D IF, personally.
 
Congratulations on preparing to propose!
I love the idea of a D FL diamond for an e-ring. So sweet. The setting you've picked is pretty.

Is Germany different from the US for 'normal' or 'average' engagement ring diamond size? You could indeed get a bigger stone for the money, but if that is not 'the norm' or what you both will be comfortable with, or what your goal for symbolism is, then don't.

Ascari_2 has a good idea about taking your stone with you to a store and comparing.
Can you call around the jewellers near you and see who has an Idealscope they would let you use to take a picture for us?

Here is my first PS thread about my search for a D FL. I didn't end up buying one, and there is some slightly off topic discussion, but there is some good advice from knowledgeable people there.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-need-a-small-d-if-because-that-would-be-cool.176493/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-need-a-small-d-if-because-that-would-be-cool.176493/[/URL]

Here is a link to a diamond from James Allen:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-IF-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1520296.asp
IDJ:
http://idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=40263984&shape=B&pricefrom=0&priceto=500000&caratfrom=0.00&caratto=.5&colorfrom=D&colorto=D&clarfrom=IF&clarto=IF&polish=ANY&cert=GIA&symmetry=ANY&depthfrom=&depthto=&tablefrom=&tableto=&cut=Array&item_id=
 
Thanks again everyone!

The price of the stone was about 1.300 EUR, so it is in the range that gets me thinking, because it is that kind of money, which could get me 0.5 ct, Whiteflash ACA stones of lower (yet probably still highly acceptable) color and clarity (like http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2781297.htm)

I will take the stone to a jeweller. It seems we are somewhat a developing country when it comes to diamonds though. The places which I asked don't have idealscope or h&a equipment. And when visiting jewellers they usually don't have d/if stones there. But it will nevertheless be good to see comparisons.

I like the stones that were suggested here, but my heart is set on an h&a diamond, seeing that the technique originated in Japan, a country to which my girlfriend has a strong connection (again symbolism, but an engagement ring always is a symbolic ring). That's why I want to verify if the stone that I have bought is actually a stone with a nice h&a pattern. The homemade solution ([URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/homemade-hearts-arrows-viewer.177008/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/homemade-hearts-arrows-viewer.177008/[/URL]) probably won't do me any good, right? If it does, how does it work? Red post-its, loupe and a glass surface and then shine light from the bottom?

Oh right, the size. In Germany, getting an engagement ring is somewhat counter to the tradition. Usually you pick the actual wedding bands for the proposal and then you just switch them from the left to the right hand, when you are married. So getting an engagement ring is something special already. Stones larger than 0.5 ct are rarely seen for such rings. Jewellers will actually tell you that a 1 ct. ring looks good on a woman of 40 years, but not on the small hands of younger ladies. Personally, I would agree, although I have spent a significant time of my life in the US and know the tradition there goes towards a minimum of 1 ct. My girlfriend has told me that she doesn't care about the size, a statement which I wouldn't have taken at face value, but when she shows me rings she likes, the stones are usually 0.2 ct., while she always stays away from larger stones, which are bigger than 0.5 ct., because she feels like she couldn't wear the ring everyday, like to work, etc. So since the setting demands either a third carat or a half carat, thats the range the weight of stone will have to be in.

Thanks again for your help, further comments are highly appreciated!
 
Hi!

I just got back from various jewellers and although they were plenty clueless when it comes to diamonds (how good is the cut? "it is a brilliant" Brilliant stands for round cut in German; "see it is a 0.52 ct diamond" she said while pointing to the 5.2 mm diameter; "you will get an independent expertise." from what institute? "we work with independent gemologist Frau Meyer in southern Germany"), I had to witness again that I couldn't tell the difference in color between my D stone and their F-G stones even in direct comparison. And obviously you can't see that it is flawless anyway.
However, what I could also see is that my stone outperformed their stones in light reflection (albeit only noticable when in direct comparison), which is obviously due to the great cut of the Blue Nile stone, but will likely be the same or even more so with a Whiteflash ACA or a Brian Gavin H&A stone. I also viewed the setting again and I have to say that 0.5 ct looks much better in it. A 0.3 ct stone sinks into the setting and is somewhat overpowered by it.
So in short: h&a will have to do for symbolism, while I will probably depart from D color and IF clarity. I am currently checking whiteflash and brian gavin, although I somehow dislike that I have to wire the money and can't pay per credit card or paypal. It also is a little nervewrecking that my order will have to go through customs, which it wouldn't have to do when ordering via bluenile (anyone happen to know if there's a BGD or WF equivalent based in Europe? Can't believe that there isn't. Germany is right next to Antwerp for heaven's sake). Yet I think even the fact that BGD and WF offer the hearts, arrow, and idealscope images probably outweighs the inconveniences caused by customs and bankwire.

So even though I will probably send it back, here you have some pictures I took of the bluenile stone. I do like the stone and would probably keep it, if it wasn't for the fact that 1. I cannot verify the h&a pattern and 2. I like a 0.5 ct stone better in the setting.







thanks for linking the WF ACA stone. E-VS2 would certainly be nice and the price is managable. Should I be worried that HCA rates scintillation and fire "only" as very good? You know what else I love, that the AGS certificate includes the pavillion side as an image. How lovely is that for hearts and arrow stones, unfortunately not every one of their h&a has that type of certificate. I will probably be in touch with Wf and BGD and will be back to get your opinion on specific stones. Thank you all so much for helping!
That question about possible online alternatives or branches based in Europe would be a nice to know as well though...
 

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Tanisovic, I would also suggest that you contact Jonathan at Good Old Gold and let him know what you are looking for. This is what I did and he was able to locate a beautiful looking stone for me for a basically the same price that I would have paid at Blue Nile (maybe slightly more). However, he was able to provide a lot more information about the stone, including photos of the hearts and arrows pattern, and everything else I could've asked for. Here's the page of the exact stone that I purchased http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9769/.. He also made a comparison video of the stone I was looking at and one of their more superior stones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rya0msdIE7o..
 
Whiteflash takes credit cards. I'd say most places do if you pay the credit card fee which is about 4%.
Whiteflash and James Allen give pricescope discounts, I'm sure other PS vendors do too.
James Allen has a much longer return window than WF.

Here is a nice JA that scores 1.3 on the HCA:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1500771.asp

Here is a nice WF that scores 1.7 on the HCA:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-18976.htm

Don't all nice ideal cut rounds show hearts and arrows? I could be wrong here, but if you are sold a diamond as hearts and arrows, are you just buying a branded diamond? You can't see the hearts once it is set, just the arrows, and that is what all nice ideal cut diamonds show.
I am far from an expert, so someone more knowledgable can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
:read:
 
JaneSmith|1348335077|3272872 said:
Don't all nice ideal cut rounds show hearts and arrows?
Click to expand...

Short answer? No they don't always.

H&A is a measure of symmetry, not light performance. The angles of the crown and pavillion as well as the table and depth% are what contribute to light performance. You can have a stone with beautiful H&A that has terrible light performance if the angles are off, and vice versa. That said, if a cutter is taking the time to cut for one goal or the other, they are also more likely to strive for both.

And H&A is not a "brand" per se.
 
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