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Advice on Oval Diamond

EV112358

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
4
Hello all!

I am currently in the market for an oval diamond for an engagement ring. I've generally been looking around 2ct, L/W ratio around 1.35, around H-I color, and eye-clean which I end up gravitating toward the VS1-2 (I'm okay with lower, but end up liking those stones better). I've shopped around a LOT online, and in-person 3-4 times. On my most recent venture, I came across this Oval 2.08/I/VS1/VG/VG that I really liked. I'm no professional, but in-person I thought that it had beautiful fire and brilliance, no bow tie (which I hate, even when it is "minimal"). To me, it looked whiter than the H I was comparing it to, and it was the nicest looking stone that I have seen in-person in my shopping.

Besides looking for a general overview (I posted a few pictures below, but I don't have any professional photos and so I know that will be difficult), I have 2 main questions.

1) This is a 4-main facet cut. I've looked on other threads to try to learn about the differences, and I've seen that generally the 4-main has broad fire, minimal bow tie, but can look "blurry" inside. I also like the 8-main offset and the 6-main, but I seem to have more issue with those as the 8-main seem to have more bow ties. Assuming I like how the stone looks in-person, is there any other reason to sweat the facet style?

2) This has a slightly thick - extremely thick girdle, which I know can lead to some "wasted carat" and a smaller face-up for the weight. I've also seen that fancy stones often have thicker girdles, but is that more for pointed stones than for ovals? Any indication whether this is related to the facets style or if this is due to asymmetry of the cut? The dimensions are 9.66x7.22x4.32, which as I look around seem more similar to the 2.00-2.02 carat stones. The price I was initially quoted was about 8% below Rap, which could be partially explained by the VG/VG ratings as well (I've seen elsewhere on this site that, at least for Round's, VG/VG carries about a ~8% discount.) In general, in my negotiations can I expect additional discount because of this girdle and the "wasted carats?" Let's say I end up getting quoted closer to the 2.00 carat price and so the "wasted" carats aren't a factor - in that case, is there anything else negative about this girdle that would make me want to call in other stones for alternatives?

Thank you for your help!

I wish I had better images, but since I was seeing it in person and not online, I had to rely on my camera. I really liked the look of the stone in-person. See attached below, and the link to the video.

Video of Stone: https://imgur.com/a/b2nkd69

1111.jpg 111.jpg 33333.PNG
 

princessandthepear

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
603
I would consider passing on this stone due to the knot in its clarity plot. A knot is a smaller diamond crystal that has grown in a larger crystal. It has the potential to be knocked out of your diamond and at best leave a cavity.
 

EV112358

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
4
I would consider passing on this stone due to the knot in its clarity plot. A knot is a smaller diamond crystal that has grown in a larger crystal. It has the potential to be knocked out of your diamond and at best leave a cavity.

Thank you for your reply! I know that knots are not desirable, but even when the knot is so small, and not the first clarity-definer, in a VS1? I will speak with my jeweler more about it and why he thought the durability was sound. It seems to be near the area where a prong could cover, is this a viable strategy?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,254
1) Faceting pattern is personal preference. If you like 4 main, you like 4 main. They arent any better or any worse than the other faceting patterns.
IMO, they do tend to have some larger facets through the middle so you will get some bigger, slower flashes as well as smaller sparkles.

2) IMO, if the stone is facing up at an acceptable LxW then no need to worry about the thick girdle. Ovals at the same carat weight can vary
broadly. Did you check prices on-line for similar shape/size stones? A B&M may charge a bit more for the facility (I'm ok with that). You are
getting personalized service (they brought stones in for you to compare right?). Thats worth something in my book.

Were you able to look at the stones in different lighting? Outside? Just dont want there to be any surprises to how it performs (not saying there
would be).

For me personally, the faceting pattern and sparkle take precedence over the inclusion.
If it was a round brilliant (that are easy to find), I would say move on to one without a knot. For fancy
cuts, good light return/faceting pattern is my main concern but it all needs to be factored in.

Is that the know at about 7:30?

Can you see the knot with 10X? Just FYI, according to GIA a knot reaches the surface. Some people would never buy a stone with a knot.
My feelings (with fancy cuts) are if the knot is itty bitty and I like everything else about the stone (nice light return) then I would not eliminate
the stone because of a tiny knot. People will vary on this subject.

Edit...just realized this stone is a VS1. I would be even less concerned with the knot (I insure my stones in case anything happens to them).
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,254
Here is a similar stone

The stones popping up at JA in your spec range are...

If you can get the stone in the $14ks (or $13k range) that seems like a good price. How much are they asking for it?
 

EV112358

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
4
Here is a similar stone

The stones popping up at JA in your spec range are...

If you can get the stone in the $14ks (or $13k range) that seems like a good price. How much are they asking for it?
1) Faceting pattern is personal preference. If you like 4 main, you like 4 main. They arent any better or any worse than the other faceting patterns.
IMO, they do tend to have some larger facets through the middle so you will get some bigger, slower flashes as well as smaller sparkles.

2) IMO, if the stone is facing up at an acceptable LxW then no need to worry about the thick girdle. Ovals at the same carat weight can vary
broadly. Did you check prices on-line for similar shape/size stones? A B&M may charge a bit more for the facility (I'm ok with that). You are
getting personalized service (they brought stones in for you to compare right?). Thats worth something in my book.

Were you able to look at the stones in different lighting? Outside? Just dont want there to be any surprises to how it performs (not saying there
would be).

For me personally, the faceting pattern and sparkle take precedence over the inclusion.
If it was a round brilliant (that are easy to find), I would say move on to one without a knot. For fancy
cuts, good light return/faceting pattern is my main concern but it all needs to be factored in.

Is that the know at about 7:30?

Can you see the knot with 10X? Just FYI, according to GIA a knot reaches the surface. Some people would never buy a stone with a knot.
My feelings (with fancy cuts) are if the knot is itty bitty and I like everything else about the stone (nice light return) then I would not eliminate
the stone because of a tiny knot. People will vary on this subject.

Edit...just realized this stone is a VS1. I would be even less concerned with the knot (I insure my stones in case anything happens to them).

Thank you so much for your opinion, it was extremely helpful to read. I do like the 4-main as I seem to have too big of an aversion against the bow tie. Now that I've seen a cut that minimizes it so well, I'm spoiled! And yes, that is the knot at 07:30. I couldn't see it with 10X but I may go again today to a few stores and take another look at the stone. I assumed that the VS1 clarity takes into account stability of the stone, and that the small size is a better prognostic factor - it is great to hear that you would not be very concerned either.

Regarding the girdle, I appreciate you sending over similar JA options. My initial quote was $15,170, but this is after a wire transfer discount, so the real price is more like $15,500. That did seem in line with online prices, as I am sure that the JA options in the 13k-range (compared to similars in the 15k-range) are priced cheaper for a reason.

EDIT: You asked if they called in stones for me to compare. These were in-store already, not called in. I am waiting on receiving a selection of photos/videos from a remote dealer. I'd rather purchase locally, but this local store mentioned that they will call in stones if I know I'm going with them, and that they would try to beat whatever offering the remote dealer comes up with.
 
Last edited:

KKJohnson

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
1,836
I like both options the jeweler presented, they have a good eye and inventory. I also agree with the clarity rating and it not being the first inclusion on the list I don't think the knot is something to worry about. For the pricing he is overcharging a bit for it the I color and clarity by about 1-2k but then again with it being from a jeweler he has alot of overhead expenses so the difference in pricing isn't significant compared to online prices, I would see if he would work out a good deal on the setting or wedding bands

As far as looking at JA, this would be the only one I would consider
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,273
I like both options the jeweler presented, they have a good eye and inventory. I also agree with the clarity rating and it not being the first inclusion on the list I don't think the knot is something to worry about. For the pricing he is overcharging a bit for it the I color and clarity by about 1-2k but then again with it being from a jeweler he has alot of overhead expenses so the difference in pricing isn't significant compared to online prices, I would see if he would work out a good deal on the setting or wedding bands

As far as looking at JA, this would be the only one I would consider

Agreed that it's a bit overpriced, but that's expected with brick and mortar stores vs online.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,254
4 out of the 7 that came up at JA were in the $15k range so not out of the ballpark.
 

EV112358

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Messages
4
Thank you to all! I went to a few stores today and kept coming back to this stone. I couldn't find anything else that compared, for me, visually (let alone at a similar price). I was able to get another 1% off of the price, and am now just a few dollars over $15000. I'm happy with that and I think I will move forward with this stone! Thank you all for your help.

I took a few closer pictures / videos, better quality than above!

Video 1 (LEDs): Video 2 (Regular Room): Video 3 (Girdle):
1.16.20 1.jpg 1.16.20 3.jpg 1.16.20 2.jpg
 
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