Advice on Estate Diamond...

[happycow23]

First of all, I'd like to say I've been lurking around the forums for about a month or two now... it's been an invaluable source for research!

My girlfriend and I have been looking for an engagement ring, and I've been doing the research... we'd settled on a Verragio ring with a split shank and a halo, which I was going to adorn with an appropriately sized VS2, G, excellent cut/symmetry/polish diamond. However, my girlfriend just found an estate ring that she's now in love with, and I'm absolutely clueless on what to watch out for or how to figure out if I'm getting a decent price.

It's an uncertified 1.7 carats, J color, VVS2, 58.3 depth, 67 table, and has a platinum setting. The jeweler says it's from the 1930s, which means the platinum is most likely 95/5 iridium. The ring + wedding band is roughly $16k and includes a few smaller diamonds that I could probably buy for around $1.5k.

The girlfriend and the jeweler are in a different city, so I'm probably going to have an hour or so this weekend while I'm visiting to ask whatever questions I can from the jeweler in person.

How concerned do I need to be about the large table? Does anyone know how well does the 95/5 plat/iridium hold up over time, especially given that the ring is about 80 years old? Also, what do I need to watch out for and what questions should I be asking when buying an estate ring?

 

[tyty333]

Is this a round brilliant or a different cut? Is it certified...a lot of older stones arent so no big deal. I would asked to have it
apprasied (to find out what it is and to get a realistic value) by a independent apprasier. Look at it in different lighting to make
sure it doesnt go dull or dark. Take pictures and post.

 

[oldminer]

The ring might be in great condition, and if so, then it will last another long period of time. It might be worn out, partly worn, or restored in some way that could be just fine or not as good as new. You likely will not be able to really tell yourself. Ypou'll need some expert advice and the advice from the seller might not be 100% unbiased. No surprise. The weight, color and clarity will all be a matter of judgement if the diamond has not been removed and graded while unset. Even so, the color and clarity may not be to GIA standards. They might be, but we can't assure you.

My own daughter has an old estate fancy engagement ring that she oved and she didn't care about the quality a bit. She loved the look, like someone might liove a painting, or a sculpture. You can simply like it enough to buy it an not be ovrly concerned, but how good a deal it is, is not part of doing things on impulse.

Platinum alloyed at 95% or 90% has little problem of durability or serviceability. On an estate item the platinum alloy content will have virtually zero effect on anything. There is so much more important matters with such an item, that metal alloy content is not of any concern except if you specialize in metal analysis. Engineers might differ that metal alloy content and type make a big difference and surely they'd be correct when it comes to building a bridge, but with an antique ring, I don't see it making such an issue.

 

[Gypsy]

Is this a round brilliant or a different cut? Is it certified...a lot of older stones arent so no big deal. I would asked to have it
apprasied (to find out what it is and to get a realistic value) by a independent apprasier. Look at it in different lighting to make
sure it doesnt go dull or dark. Take pictures and post.

I like to have my appraisers working for me. So I would want to pick the appraiser and be the one who takes it in.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

(David, I thought old rings were more often 90plat/10iridium, or at least that is what I have heard.)

The ring sounds really promising, but I agree with the others that you HAVE to get an independent appraisal preferably by an appraiser who does not own a jewelry stone! What city is the ring in? Maybe we could make some suggestions of independent appraisers.

If you do make an offer, I would absolutely offer lower than they are asking and walk out if they don't take your offer at first. They'll probably come down if you don't act too anxious to buy.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just looked and saw that you can get a top quality, ideal cut, certified 1.75 ct. J VS1 (Infinity) diamond for $14,930. So the price on your ring is definitely too high! The stone is not ideal cut and is probably not Old European cut with that large of a table and shallow depth. So if it would be considered "good" cut, it would cost less than the stone above if it is somewhere near that color and clarity. Old settings will not add a lot of value under most circumstances unless there is additional diamond weight in the setting. Obviously an appraiser can clarify all this in relation to the ring in question.

I'd probably offer around $12,000 max for this ring unless your appraiser tells you that the stone is worth a lot more than we think at the moment. Then see what they say. I would not pay $15-16k. You could buy a fine ideal cut stone and have an antique setting made for $16k.

Examples of antique rings in that price range:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Art-Deco-White-Gold-2-96ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond-Old-Antique-Engagement-Ring-/260854887939?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbc29b603#ht_572wt_1270

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Art-Deco-1-86-Diamond-Platinum-Engagement-Anniversary-Dinner-Ring-JESSOP-/220863315979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336c7ac00b#ht_2535wt_1037

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESTATE-ART-DECO-1-9ct-DIAMOND-EMERALD-ENGAGEMENT-RING-/150416059430?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23057eec26#ht_892wt_1270

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Platinum-Diamond-Emerald-Art-Deco-Engagement-Ring-J32609-/130595008357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6811af65#ht_1900wt_1270

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-EUROPEAN-1-68CT-J-VS2-ART-DECO-PLATINUM-RING-/220736854057?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item3364f11829#ht_852wt_1037

 

[Gypsy]

I just looked and saw that you can get a top quality, ideal cut, certified 1.75 ct. J VS1 (Infinity) diamond for $14,930. So the price on your ring is definitely too high! The stone is not ideal cut and is probably not Old European cut with that large of a table and shallow depth. So if it would be considered "good" cut, it would cost less than the stone above if it is somewhere near that color and clarity. Old settings will not add a lot of value under most circumstances unless there is additional diamond weight in the setting. Obviously an appraiser can clarify all this in relation to the ring in question.

I'd probably offer around $12,000 max for this ring unless your appraiser tells you that the stone is worth a lot more than we think at the moment. Then see what they say. I would not pay $15-16k. You could buy a fine ideal cut stone and have an antique setting made for $16k.

Also, a certified round diamond (like the Infinity) demands a much higher price than an un-certified one. Since this stone is uncertified they should absolutely not be asking for the same price as a certified stone.

Since it includes the wedding band I'd be okay with 14500 for the set.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just added some antique rings to my last post so you can see that some rings in that price range have larger stones and some near the same size are asking less or even "best offer". So just don't overpay for this ring.

 

[Dancing Fire]

It's an uncertified 1.7 carats, J color, VVS2, 58.3 depth, 67 table, and has a platinum setting. The jeweler says it's from the 1930s, which means the platinum is most likely 95/5 iridium. The ring + wedding band is roughly $16k and includes a few smaller diamonds that I could probably buy for around $1.5k.

the #s don't look good..

 

[vintagelover229]

I wanted to chime in here since I bought an uncertified estate diamond ring from the 1930's as well. Like you I also had thought I'd get something certified or at least a very large OEC that I had found for a good deal. That wasn't the case as fate would have it because one day while checking out my regular sites I visit daily (I shamefully admit that lol) and my ring was listed for sale. It seemed to good to be true. 1.6 H VVS2 RB that showed signs of arrows for a really good price. We snatched her up and he sat on it for over a year It was worth the wait though.

That being said I took it to a trusted appraiser right after buying it. It's actually the same one WF uses so I trust his eyes because he's seen the ACA which is their super ideal cut RB.

He graded the stone H VVS1 1.64 and was very impressed with the stone. Ice had my healer here in Canada view it (he's trained as well and sells estate pieces) and he told
me it's a bit shallow so it has more weight and faces up larger. I've seem H&A and AVC and other nice stones in person and I love my stone.

It's not certified but I have no plans to sell it so it doesn't bother me. It's not perfect but it's perfect for me (actually it's absurdly large for my lifestyle but I think I can manage

It's easy to get caught up in the perfect setting/stone/band/etc combos but at the end of the day I remind myself to Luik at my ring like a regular person would. It's then when I can really see it's own beauty and not think about the "make my dream ring" and compare it to that. I love my ring and wouldn't trade it for a certified stone if I had the chance. It makes my heart sing and it's beautiful and we were happy with the price. And it's vintage-which I love!

So if it's the one get it checked out. My stone does have dark spots where there is light leakage and since I've seen super ideal cut stones I sometimes notice this. It's only in certain lighting though and I'm sure I'm the only person who can tell lol.

I'm on my phone so it's hard to type and read the thread but I only skimmed and wanted to post bc I thought you were away and found something although I could be recalling wrong :/

Good luck and come back and let us know what you end up doing

 

[Gypsy]

It's an uncertified 1.7 carats, J color, VVS2, 58.3 depth, 67 table, and has a platinum setting. The jeweler says it's from the 1930s, which means the platinum is most likely 95/5 iridium. The ring + wedding band is roughly $16k and includes a few smaller diamonds that I could probably buy for around $1.5k.

the #s don't look good..

Yeah. I missed that the first time around. that large table is EXTREMELY unusual in a well cut old cut. Are you sure you don't have the numbers reversed for the table and depth?

Can you post a pic of the stone so we can make sure its a good old cut?

 

[Rhea]

Could it be a tranny? My transitional has a huge table and is 1930s.