Advice for finding, evaluating, and pricing "salt and pepper" diamonds?

[wex]

Hi all,

This looks like a great forum. I'm new here and eager to learn.

My wife prefers the look of a pear-cut "salt and pepper" diamond as opposed to a flawless white one. We've spoken to a few jewelry designers in person who have a small selection of them available, but I'm a little uncomfortable going that route since I don't really know how to evaluate if what they're asking is a reasonable price or not. How do you compare/contrast them when each one if so different in terms of the clarity? Do GIA (or other) reports still apply?

It'd also be nice to see a larger selection. I'm considering procuring my own but am having trouble finding anything - it looks like most of the big online stores focus on the white diamonds with minimal inclusions. Are there marketplaces for these salt and pepper diamonds?

Finally I've seen there are some concerns regarding inclusions being weak points in the higher grade diamonds. Is that a real concern? Do these salt and pepper diamonds tend to shatter?

Any advice you guys could have would be really helpful. Thanks!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have seen some pretty designer rings with opaque rose cut diamonds. I have seen some that are really pretty, like gray with salt and pepper incisions , for example. I would not go after a regular pear cut with bad inclusions, because that is exactly what it will look like.

@rockysalamander posted a link the other day to a seller of those types of stones, and I’m sure she’d be happy to provide the link when she sees this.

 

[wex]

thanks for your reply! just so I'm sure I'm following you - is there a difference between an gray opaque rose cut and an opaque pear cut?

 

[Bron357]

The very nature of a “salt and pepper” diamond makes it less durable than a normal diamond. They are full of inclusions which do impair the crystalline structure. I have seen a lot of these diamonds on eBay (Indian sellers) which isn’t nexcessarily a bad place to shop, but the other issue is getting a jeweller to set or work with such a heavily included and therefore possibly unstable gem. They may refuse or warn you “all care taken but no responsibility accepted”. For that reason it might be best to stick with a vendor who is providing a completed ring.

 

[tyty333]

Have you looked on etsy.com?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/568129...uery=rose cut pear diamond&ref=sr_gallery-1-1

https://www.etsy.com/listing/568910...ery=rose cut pear diamond&ref=sr_gallery-1-20

https://www.etsy.com/listing/560946...db2e2c2f9445a2e295226892f1590e2db4c:560946758

https://www.etsy.com/listing/474960...search_query=pear diamond&ref=sr_gallery-2-14

 

[tyty333]

Alternatively, look on James Allen...just knock the clarity down to I1.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.04-carat-h-color-i1-clarity-sku-3197996

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.09-carat-e-color-i1-clarity-sku-3639798

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/0.72-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-4206797 (si2)

Edit...I like the rose cut option...kind of a natural organic looking.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

thanks for your reply! just so I'm sure I'm following you - is there a difference between an gray opaque rose cut and an opaque pear cut?

I meant a rose cut in a pear shape. They come in different colors.

Here are some random sources on etsy, and you can see the various colors. These aren't all good quality, though.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/252601...rch_query=rose cut diamond&ref=sr_gallery-1-6

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JanishJewels/items

Lots of other sellers:

https://www.etsy.com/search?explicit=1&q=rose+cut+diamond+loose&ref=related

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here's a pretty decent pear:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/568129502/huge-108mm330ctw-natural-very-light-grey?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=rose cut diamond loose&ref=sr_gallery-1-1

Here are a couple of designers who make rings with rose cuts that are heavily included:

https://www.loveaudryrose.com/bridal/engagement-rings/

https://www.sofiakaman.com/jewelry-category/wedding-and-engagement/engagement-rings/?view_all=true

https://www.rebeccaovermann.com/product-category/rings/engagement-rings/

 

[LaylaR]

I would do a search for "Galaxy Diamond Ring Pear" Galaxy diamond seems to be a marketing term that is popular to describe the look your wife wants.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Ok, I'm stupid!...why would anyone wear a S&P stone?...

 

[arkieb1]

Ok, I'm stupid!...why would anyone wear a S&P stone?...

Those and half polished and unpolished rough material put into modern rings have been "in fashion" for a while now. Black diamonds were in fashion, probably are back out again, the greys seem to be "in" at the moment but I can't keep up.

 

[SimoneDi]

I have another Q for OP, it is clear that your wife wants something “unusual”, I wonder if she was sen fancy color diamonds? I would much prefer a black or gray diamond, or even the opaque white vs S&P - 1 for durability issues, 2 because I find them completely illiquid.

Here are some examples, again, I don’t know what your budget is, but maybe some colors that you can show her:

https://www.leibish.com/black-diamonds/fancy-black-pear-25130
https://www.leibish.com/gray-diamonds/fancy-gray-pear-20630
https://www.leibish.com/gray-diamonds/fancy-dark-green-gray-pear-22994
https://www.leibish.com/white-diamonds/fancy-white-cushion-15417

 

[rockysalamander]

For a rustic diamond, like any gemstone, the type and location of the inclusions matters both for beauty and durability. But, in the case of salt and pepper or rustic diamonds, look for the diamond to have primarily solid crystals and not feathers, then there is less of a issue. Due to the physical structure, I'd stick with a good vendor and avoid the cheap ebay stones. They are cheap for a reason.

Gemstones like this come in two categories. I2/3 and slab/rose stones. The I3 and lower stones will be faceted like a traditional diamond. They are, when well selected, a clear stone with floating inclusions. The other kind are usually termed "rustic" diamonds. They are slab-cut then usually rose cut or something similar. These tend to have a body color and be opaque. They both have a beauty, but are quite different. Which does she like?

In any case, I'd approach buying these more like a colored stone not a diamond. You are looking at color, transparency, saturation and hue. Are the inclusions visually pleasing? I personally like the ones that have some transparency or opacity and are not solid colored. Many of this rustic stones will be rose cut. In either case, the cost is about what you are willing to pay. I'm not sure there is much consistency with idealized diamonds as we often see here.

I follow this vendor on Instagram and she has a amazing selection of these kinds of natural diamonds, along with lovely rose-cut gemstones.

https://www.instagram.com/calebbquashen/?hl=enHere are some examples she posted on the rustic kind (slab/rose)


Here is another vendor that has some of the more traditionally shaped stones an a video of a really pretty salt-n-pepper stone she posted.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfcXAG-hiKb/?hl=en&taken-by=anuevajewelry

 

[LaylaR]

I've actually seen some very lovely designer pieces of this kind of material. Different, but lovely.

Kifani is a designer that specializes in this look, if you want to browse.

 

[ringo865]

Honeyjewelryco on Instagram.

 

[wex]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful replies! This is turning out to be quite the learning experience. It's fantastic to find a great forum with such knowledgeable people willing to help out.

Gemstones like this come in two categories. I2/3 and slab/rose stones. The I3 and lower stones will be faceted like a traditional diamond. They are, when well selected, a clear stone with floating inclusions. The other kind are usually termed "rustic" diamonds. They are slab-cut then usually rose cut or something similar. These tend to have a body color and be opaque. They both have a beauty, but are quite different. Which does she like?

Thanks - it's helpful to parse these out into different categories. She's expressed interest in both, but I think she's leaning towards a clear stone with floating inclusions. However I think she is open to a very heavy amount of inclusions, possibly to the point of being essentially opaque with occasional "clear" areas peeking through. Unless that's going to significantly degrade the strength/integrity of the stone.

Due to the physical structure, I'd stick with a good vendor and avoid the cheap ebay stones. They are cheap for a reason.

Totally agree - I had seen some very pretty stones on Etsy and elsewhere, but they strike me as remarkably cheap and I just don't have the knowledge/skill to evaluate them effectively.

Are GIA (or other) reports generally done for these types of stones?

Would it be practical to have people send me stones directly and then have a third party evaluate them (and potentially return them if there are concerns)? I'm not even sure how I would find someone that could do this or if it would be cost effective.

In either case, the cost is about what you are willing to pay. I'm not sure there is much consistency with idealized diamonds as we often see here.

Gotcha, so it sounds like there isn't much consistency in terms of pricing? Any rules of thumb?

 

[wex]

I have another Q for OP, it is clear that your wife wants something “unusual”, I wonder if she was sen fancy color diamonds? I would much prefer a black or gray diamond, or even the opaque white vs S&P - 1 for durability issues, 2 because I find them completely illiquid.

Here are some examples, again, I don’t know what your budget is, but maybe some colors that you can show her:

https://www.leibish.com/black-diamonds/fancy-black-pear-25130
https://www.leibish.com/gray-diamonds/fancy-gray-pear-20630
https://www.leibish.com/gray-diamonds/fancy-dark-green-gray-pear-22994
https://www.leibish.com/white-diamonds/fancy-white-cushion-15417

Wow, these are gorgeous. I don't think they're quite what she's looking for, but will explore it as an option. They might be out of our price range, though. Do fancy color diamonds tend to be more expensive than the clear white diamonds?

 

[daneshpastry]

Wow, these are gorgeous. I don't think they're quite what she's looking for, but will explore it as an option. They might be out of our price range, though. Do fancy color diamonds tend to be more expensive than the clear white diamonds?

Yes, naturally coloured diamonds are generally more expensive. Another option might be a white sapphire - diamond-ish, but a unique option.

 

[SimoneDi]

Wow, these are gorgeous. I don't think they're quite what she's looking for, but will explore it as an option. They might be out of our price range, though. Do fancy color diamonds tend to be more expensive than the clear white diamonds?

Some of these are larger and with fancy color diamonds, the price mostly depends on the color. I personally love fancy yellows because they are more affordable and can look really great and “sunny” when set in jewelery. I really like the greys I shared here (greys sometimes tend to be more expensive, but again based on the color, there are variations). Fancy brown or champagne are usually less expensive and can look great if set the right way. Here is an example: https://www.leibish.com/champagne-diamonds/fancy-dark-yellowish-brown-pear-24703

 

[SimoneDi]

Yes, naturally coloured diamonds are generally more expensive. Another option might be a white sapphire - diamond-ish, but a unique option.

That is not always true. Pricing for natural fancy diamonds mostly depends on the color. Sapphire, although a beautiful stone, it has a completely different chemical makeup and performance. It may be an option for OP to explore, but I would never call it a diamond substitute.

 

[daneshpastry]

That is not always true. Pricing for natural fancy diamonds mostly depends on the color. Sapphire, although a beautiful stone, it has a completely different chemical makeup and performance. It may be an option for OP to explore, but I would never call it a diamond substitute.

I didn't call it a substitute - just another option. And I said generally more expensive, not always .

OP - sorry if I was unclear. "Most" natural coloured diamonds are more expensive than their equivalent, colourless alternative. Brown diamonds are sometimes the exception to this rule, as they are more reportedly more common when mining.

There are also human-created colour diamonds, where lower-grade colourless diamonds are treated to obtain a different colour. For example, a yellowish stone which is considered low-grade can be irradiated to produce a green stone.

Sapphires are, of course, not a diamond, but can be an alternate option.

 

[SimoneDi]

I didn't call it a substitute - just another option. And I said generally more expensive, not always .

Ok, I wouldn’t say “generally” either, there are a lot of factors when comparing fancy colors to colorless diamonds. Fancy light colors are “generally” less expensive when comparing to a D/IF diamond of similar carat. Fancy vivid colors are “generally” more expensive when comparing to a K/SI2 diamond of similar carat. And then there is the fancy colors - red, pink, blue are usually very expensive, champagne and black - not so much. But again, this is all generalization, which is not applicable to real life scenarios when evaluating colorless and fancy color natural diamonds.

 

[daneshpastry]

Ok, I wouldn’t say “generally” either, there are a lot of factors when comparing fancy colors to colorless diamonds. Fancy light colors are “generally” less expensive when comparing to a D/IF diamond of similar carat. Fancy vivid colors are “generally” more expensive when comparing to a K/SI2 diamond of similar carat. And then there is the fancy colors - red, pink, blue are usually very expensive, champagne and black - not so much. But again, this is all generalization, which is not applicable to real life scenarios when evaluating colorless and fancy color natural diamonds.

I edited my response above to clarify. I think we're both trying to convey similar information.

 

[SimoneDi]

I edited my response above to clarify. I think we're both trying to convey similar information.

I think so

 

[SimoneDi]

OP, I am also not sure if the wife may be interested in some lower color diamonds. Perhaps, when thinking of colorless diamond, she assumes “white”. Here is a fine example of a great pear on budget: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/58ct-u-v-si2-pear-diamond-gia-r7815
Another interesting one: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/ind...rangy-brown-si1-heart-shape-diamond-gia-r6841
Not pears, but here is a very cool “peachy” looking stone that is somewhat included, so maybe your wife will like it: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/ind...w-orange-i1-round-brilliant-diamond-gia-r7254
And a fancy grey that I find interesting: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/77ct-gray-i1-marquise-diamond-r7937

 

[rockysalamander]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfubFOQgqFG/

 

[wex]

OP, I am also not sure if the wife may be interested in some lower color diamonds. Perhaps, when thinking of colorless diamond, she assumes “white”. Here is a fine example of a great pear on budget: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/58ct-u-v-si2-pear-diamond-gia-r7815
Another interesting one: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/ind...rangy-brown-si1-heart-shape-diamond-gia-r6841
Not pears, but here is a very cool “peachy” looking stone that is somewhat included, so maybe your wife will like it: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/ind...w-orange-i1-round-brilliant-diamond-gia-r7254
And a fancy grey that I find interesting: http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/77ct-gray-i1-marquise-diamond-r7937

Thanks much for the suggestion, I think they're really pretty but she's more into the heavily included white/grey stones.

 

[foxinsox]

I was reminded of this thread today when I saw this on Trabert Goldsmith’s IG https://instagram.com/p/Bf_qeISlcbd/

 

[RetroTreeGal]

I was reminded of this thread today when I saw this on Trabert Goldsmith’s IG https://instagram.com/p/Bf_qeISlcbd/

The way this stone is reflecting the room light makes it look like a faceted labradorite.

 

[rockysalamander]

I ran across these and wanted to post it. Well cut and cool inclusion pattern.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-i1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3895024


https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-i1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3244288