Advice Colombian emerald price

[MBM14]

Hi all, I’m new here and also new to the emerald world. Just abit of context to see if any one can help, I will post my questions at the end. My finance proposed with a beautiful emerald ring in September. I’ve always wanted Muzo as I like the deep green, he ended up getting one from chivor because out of all the ones presented to him, this is the one he loved the most and I’m happy with that. I sort of wished I could have given him more tips on who to buy from as I follow a few emerald suppliers on Instagram like muzo emeralds ( George ) And seeing all his emeralds and prices is what made me worry about mine. My partner and I discussed the price as I wanted to know if I had to insure it and told me he paid 60K euros for the ring and I was shocked because despite being a beautiful emerald, I have seen similar ones on many accounts for way less.
My ring is 4.21 carats, chivor emerald, minor oil with a certificate from Rodrigo Giraldo lab. My partner lives in Germany and he went to his usual jeweller in Stuggart KUTTER 1825 and they sourced him many emeralds to choose, supplied by GROH + RIPP. I also asked one of the experts I follow on Instagram for their thoughts on price etc and they said he paid 3 times the amount and that the ring could have easily been just 20k and they would have made money. Ofcourse they are direct suppliers so their prices are better but they also mentioned that for that price he should have gotten a second certificate from Gubelin or similar which would just cost the supplier 800€ to confirm minor oil as they think it could be moderate oil just by looking at a few pictures I sent but they said ofcourse they would need to see it in person to be sure. We asked the jeweller and they sent our concerns to the supplier and they replied saying is not mandatory to have a second certificate for gemstones above certain price and it would be more than 800€ with customs etc and if it’s not something required at the start with prior to buying the emerald. That Rodrigo Giraldo lab is well known and respected and they are a reputable supplier in the idar oberstein area and been doing this for many years as well as Kutter jewellery etc etc.

My questions are : should I send it to Gubelin or GRS ans pay extra thousands to check that it’s minor?

If it comes back as moderate can I take this back to the jeweller.

Is the price high because he went through jeweller / supplier and they mark up the stone.

The filet is also off center. When you look at the stone from the top there is a small inclusion so they had to cut it this way to preserve color ( that’s what I was told by another expert ) but is this normal?


And just to clarify, I’m very happy with my ring as it holds so much meaning and it’s the emerald my finance chose for me. I’m just unhappy with the price he paid as I feel it wasn’t fair.

Thanks for any advice ! And sorry for the long text.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Firstly congratulations on your engagement and your very beautiful ring.

Whether you can return it or not depends on the consumer laws in your country, the person you bought it off and a whole set of circumstances that I cannot comment on. Do you think they will take it back? Will you feel bothered by this ring?

It’s very hard to put a price on these things and it can come down to many different qualities and elements. I guess my advice is to pursue the additional reports if this will niggle at you or just enjoy the ring and take it as lesson learnt. We’ve all been here at one point or another. I won’t get into details but I bought some ridiculous diamonds at ridiculous prices 20 years ago. Probably worthless now. Then I bought some CS off a charlatan on a forum. I ultimately moved on but they were a piece of work.

Decide what you can live with and move forward.

Best of luck and it sounds like you have a lovely and generous fiancé. That’s what counts in the end.

 

[dk168]

Firstly congratulations on your engagement and your very beautiful ring.

Whether you can return it or not depends on the consumer laws in your country, the person you bought it off and a whole set of circumstances that I cannot comment on. Do you think they will take it back? Will you feel bothered by this ring?

It’s very hard to put a price on these things and it can come down to many different qualities and elements. I guess my advice is to pursue the additional reports if this will niggle at you or just enjoy the ring and take it as lesson learnt. We’ve all been here at one point or another. I won’t get into details but I bought some ridiculous diamonds at ridiculous prices 20 years ago. Probably worthless now. Then I bought some CS off a charlatan on a forum. I ultimately moved on but they were a piece of work.

Decide what you can live with and move forward.

Best of luck and it sounds like you have a lovely and generous fiancé. That’s what counts in the end.

All good advice.

However, if you have doubts about the Emerald, would the OP be truly happy after spending more $$$ on additional reports, as they are unlikely to change the origin of the stone to Muzo?!

Some would put a lot of value on the origin of a stone, e.g. Burma for Rubies and Kashmir for blue Sapphires, likewise Muzo for Emeralds.

If the origin of the stone matters to the OP, then I would advise returning the stone now and inform your OH the reason(s) why (the setting would be a no-no for me as the sides of the stone are exposed and could easily be chipped etc.), and then help and assist your OH to source another stone that meets your criteria including the origin.

Good luck!

DK

 

[Crimson]

Congratulations, and welcome to Pricescope @MBM14 .
I too love Muzo Green emeralds, and I like Chivor ones too.
Your emerald is a pretty colour and looks well cut and quite clean. It’s also over four carats, and size carries a premium.
I live in Singapore,, close to gem centres like Bangkok and Hong Kong. Here, the price of high quality, cleaner emeralds starts at $10,000 a carat. The per carat price increases exponentially with size. Stones with the Old Mine, Muzo Green designation command an even higher price. If you like, you might want to visit my emerald thread; https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5214355
You mentioned Instagram. Have you visited Gemfactor emerald? They have good stones from Chivor and you might be able to get an indication of price from them.
I don’t think the price your fiance paid is terribly exorbitant.
It is very hard to compare one emerald with another just looking at websites, photos and videos. It is also not easy to photograph emeralds accurately.
I would re- test the emerald only if the certificate is old. If it is recent, such as in the last few months, it should be fine. Rodrigo S lab is the best in Columbia.
I hope you will enjoy your lovely ring and be happy that your fiancé put in all the time and money to find it

 

[Autumn in New England]

Big congrats on your upcoming nuptials!

About your questions...

1. Should I send it to Gubelin or GRS and pay extra thousands to check that it’s minor?

If I paid $70k USD, I'd want to make sure it's minor oil. I'd use Gubelin or SSEF. That's just me. It's your call! But that Giraldo lab seems to "certify" everything as minor. Your jeweler saying it could be moderate... eh maybe. It could also certainly be minor. You can't always tell by the visible inclusions. Some highly included looking stones will certify as minor, and I've seen stones that veteran miners and vendors swore would certify as minor come back as F3 from the GIA.

2. If it comes back as moderate can I take this back to the jeweller?

It depends on their return policy. While you might be right in theory (they sold it as minor, but Gubelin or SSEF says it's moderate), getting them to take it back may not be so easy. I would contact them right away and tell them what you intend to do. See what their response is. If the extent of clarity enhancement is important to you, then you have your answer. Do you know how your fiancé paid and when?

3. Is the price high because he went through jeweller / supplier and they mark up the stone?

I think the price was high, especially for Chivor material. I might expect to pay around $15k/carat for very fine Muzo material. But yes, buying at brick and mortar shops will always be higher.

4. The filet <I assume you meant culet> is also off center. When you look at the stone from the top there is a small inclusion so they had to cut it this way to preserve color ( that’s what I was told by another expert ) but is this normal?

Honestly, fine emeralds in this size are rare. I have no problem with a cutting defect here or there. It didn't create an awful window or anything... maybe just a couple of open facets. Again, whether it bothers you is the real question.

This is a beautiful stone... nice color and clarity... fabulous size... decent cut. And, as you said, it holds very special meaning for you. So you must consider all of these factors. That being said, I've found that if something bothers me now, it will only bother me more in the future. If you decide this may not be the stone for you, be sure to include your fiancé in replacing it. A new stone can still hold all of that special meaning and more! I'm sure he wants you to be 100% satisfied with the piece!!

Welcome to the forum and good luck.

 

[MBM14]

Thank you so much for reply! Sorry I mean culet, autocorrect and I can’t seem to edit it.

I think I could never replace the stone as I feel this is the one he chose for me, even when he had the chance to spend less and go for Muzo. He actually requested Muzo only but I think the gem supplier sent also chivor to the jeweller because he requested certain cut and size. I think he thought he was only being shown Muzo but then we saw the certificate it said chivor. Either way he chose it because of the color and because it stood out to him.

I’m definitely considering an extra report from a well known lab, I was told it would be €800 but I’ve been reading more and more and ofcourse there is the shipping and customs to Switzerland which will be a lot for the price of the stone I think.

The grading only worries me as that is one of the factors that drove up the price. So if it came back as moderate I would want him to get back money from the jeweller or supplier as they sold him something that wasn’t. Sure they will say they sold it as minor as that’s what the lab report says but like the expert on Instagram said to me, for that price they should be able to offer a second certificate. But the gem supplier said they only do this for 6 figures and above. While the expert I follow on Instagram says he doesn’t this for 20K and above.

He paid for the ring and stone in August and he has the receipt from the jeweller stating everything including the emerald details and report number. I wouldn’t think they would take it back but I would hope they adjust the price of it comes back as moderate.

For example this

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

ring with diamonds, - bit smaller emerald but much finer was 65k usd and Gubelin, sure he’s selling straight from the source in Colombia but it made me think that perhaps mine is too expensive for what it is and price should be adjusted if it’s not F1

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you so much for reply! Sorry I mean culet, autocorrect and I can’t seem to edit it.

I think I could never replace the stone as I feel this is the one he chose for me, even when he had the chance to spend less and go for Muzo. He actually requested Muzo only but I think the gem supplier sent also chivor to the jeweller because he requested certain cut and size. I think he thought he was only being shown Muzo but then we saw the certificate it said chivor. Either way he chose it because of the color and because it stood out to him.

I’m definitely considering an extra report from a well known lab, I was told it would be €800 but I’ve been reading more and more and ofcourse there is the shipping and customs to Switzerland which will be a lot for the price of the stone I think.

The grading only worries me as that is one of the factors that drove up the price. So if it came back as moderate I would want him to get back money from the jeweller or supplier as they sold him something that wasn’t. Sure they will say they sold it as minor as that’s what the lab report says but like the expert on Instagram said to me, for that price they should be able to offer a second certificate. But the gem supplier said they only do this for 6 figures and above. While the expert I follow on Instagram says he doesn’t this for 20K and above.

He paid for the ring and stone in August and he has the receipt from the jeweller stating everything including the emerald details and report number. I wouldn’t think they would take it back but I would hope they adjust the price of it comes back as moderate.

For example this

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

ring with diamonds, - bit smaller emerald but much finer was 65k usd and Gubelin, sure he’s selling straight from the source in Colombia but it made me think that perhaps mine is too expensive for what it is and price should be adjusted if it’s not F1

Sounds like you have your answer... you definitely want to keep this stone (and I completely understand why). So you will proceed with a new certification to make sure it is minor CE. If not, you will seek some reimbursement from the seller. Good luck and let us know how you do!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Before going through the hassle of another report think hard about what you will do if it comes back moderate. Fight for a refund with the seller? He could argue that the other lab disagreed and that’s what you bought. I sort of lean to either returning it (can you even? Would you even want to?) or just keeping it and enoying it as it is. I assume it was not a huge financial hardship for your partner to bug this, else-wise I doubt he would have spent such a sum, so haggling over the price seems uncalled for. You can’t believe what the IG person said either. I’ve almost never met a vendor who doesn’t bad mouth stones they didn’t sell.

My concern is how exposed this delicate gem is in that setting. Emeralds are soft and for a special wear price I would want it more protected personally.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Before going through the hassle of another report think hard about what you will do if it comes back moderate. Fight for a refund with the seller? He could argue that the other lab disagreed and that’s what you bought. I sort of lean to either returning it (can you even? Would you even want to?) or just keeping it and enoying it as it is. I assume it was not a huge financial hardship for your partner to bug this, else-wise I doubt he would have spent such a sum, so haggling over the price seems uncalled for. You can’t believe what the IG person said either. I’ve almost never met a vendor who doesn’t bad mouth stones they didn’t sell.

My concern is how exposed this delicate gem is in that setting. Emeralds are soft and for a special wear price I would want it more protected personally.

All salient points! I just wanted to add one thing... emeralds are actually rather hard (8 Mohs). But they can lack toughness and be prone to chipping/cracking due to their internal characteristics. Either way, the result is the same and your advice is very sound. My OCD brain just forces me to differentiate between hardness and toughness. It's annoying, yes, and I apologize. Carry on!

 

[Dreamer_D]

All salient points! I just wanted to add one thing... emeralds are actually rather hard (8 Mohs). But they can lack toughness and be prone to chipping/cracking due to their internal characteristics. Either way, the result is the same and your advice is very sound. My OCD brain just forces me to differentiate between hardness and toughness. It's annoying, yes, and I apologize. Carry on!

I was thinking that as I typed it but went for the quicker explanation and thought someone (aka you) might correct it!

How about we just say it’s a more delicate gem? Not technical but descriptive!

 

[Enhoerning]

I agree with everyone that a stone of this caliber, especially when bought in Europe, should come with a report such as Gubelin or SSEF to confirm the geographic origin and treatment level.

That being said, it looks like a spectacular stone in a very nice ring…and if somebody claims they can deliver a comparable item for $20K and “make money”, I would take that at least with a grain of salt.

Keep in mind: if making a significant purchase and then asking a direct competitor if you got a great deal…what they answer will likely be testament to their character more than anything else.

Whether an off-center culet is acceptable or not is mostly a matter of personal standards…the impact on value is fairly low compared to other factors such as color/clarity.

Also, congratulations on your engagement!

 

[Mrs_Strizzle]

You've been given some great advice so I won't repeat. Just wanted to tell you that I gasped when I saw your hand pics. It is beautiful! I personally like "imperfect" gems (culet) and joke that I like the idea of being able to pick my babies out of a line up, lol. Congratulations on your engagement!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I was thinking that as I typed it but went for the quicker explanation and thought someone (aka you) might correct it!

How about we just say it’s a more delicate gem? Not technical but descriptive!

lol Indeed!!

 

[MBM14]

Firstly congratulations on your engagement and your very beautiful ring.

Whether you can return it or not depends on the consumer laws in your country, the person you bought it off and a whole set of circumstances that I cannot comment on. Do you think they will take it back? Will you feel bothered by this ring?

It’s very hard to put a price on these things and it can come down to many different qualities and elements. I guess my advice is to pursue the additional reports if this will niggle at you or just enjoy the ring and take it as lesson learnt. We’ve all been here at one point or another. I won’t get into details but I bought some ridiculous diamonds at ridiculous prices 20 years ago. Probably worthless now. Then I bought some CS off a charlatan on a forum. I ultimately moved on but they were a piece of work.

Decide what you can live with and move forward.

Best of luck and it sounds like you have a lovely and generous fiancé. That’s what counts in the end.

thank you for your advice. I love the ring, I think I sort of feel anoyed that maybe it could be moderate oil and therefore cheaper or that he might have paid sooo much more than what its worth. I didn't want something so expensive and I feel like he was told this is how much yuo have to pay to get a decent emerald and thats what he believed but since I have seen other websites and other gems I feel he could have paid way less. I do also feel like I should move on and enjoy the ring but ofcourse there is the little feeling like he was ripped off....

 

[MBM14]

All good advice.

However, if you have doubts about the Emerald, would the OP be truly happy after spending more $$$ on additional reports, as they are unlikely to change the origin of the stone to Muzo?!

Some would put a lot of value on the origin of a stone, e.g. Burma for Rubies and Kashmir for blue Sapphires, likewise Muzo for Emeralds.

If the origin of the stone matters to the OP, then I would advise returning the stone now and inform your OH the reason(s) why (the setting would be a no-no for me as the sides of the stone are exposed and could easily be chipped etc.), and then help and assist your OH to source another stone that meets your criteria including the origin.

Good luck!

DK

Thank you DK. Even tho I love the deep green of Muzo, I also value that he was shown a few and he picked the one that he loved the most. Perhaps the Muzo he was shown at that moment didnt have amazing clarity or color, will never know....

As for the setting yes, even tho i wanted someting very simple and didnt think he would go this big on this stone making it quite high and exposed. I did think of a bezel setting.... but not sure if I want to do it now or in the future....

 

[MBM14]

Congratulations, and welcome to Pricescope @MBM14 .
I too love Muzo Green emeralds, and I like Chivor ones too.
Your emerald is a pretty colour and looks well cut and quite clean. It’s also over four carats, and size carries a premium.
I live in Singapore,, close to gem centres like Bangkok and Hong Kong. Here, the price of high quality, cleaner emeralds starts at $10,000 a carat. The per carat price increases exponentially with size. Stones with the Old Mine, Muzo Green designation command an even higher price. If you like, you might want to visit my emerald thread; https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5214355
You mentioned Instagram. Have you visited Gemfactor emerald? They have good stones from Chivor and you might be able to get an indication of price from them.
I don’t think the price your fiance paid is terribly exorbitant.
It is very hard to compare one emerald with another just looking at websites, photos and videos. It is also not easy to photograph emeralds accurately.
I would re- test the emerald only if the certificate is old. If it is recent, such as in the last few months, it should be fine. Rodrigo S lab is the best in Columbia.
I hope you will enjoy your lovely ring and be happy that your fiancé put in all the time and money to find it

Thank you you are so kind. I will have a look at what you shared

 

[MBM14]

I agree with everyone that a stone of this caliber, especially when bought in Europe, should come with a report such as Gubelin or SSEF to confirm the geographic origin and treatment level.

That being said, it looks like a spectacular stone in a very nice ring…and if somebody claims they can deliver a comparable item for $20K and “make money”, I would take that at least with a grain of salt.

Keep in mind: if making a significant purchase and then asking a direct competitor if you got a great deal…what they answer will likely be testament to their character more than anything else.

Whether an off-center culet is acceptable or not is mostly a matter of personal standards…the impact on value is fairly low compared to other factors such as color/clarity.

Also, congratulations on your engagement!

thank you for your reply and the good wishes. I have seen so many stones being sold via instagram from the big suppliers you find at the known GEM fairs and most of them come with swiss certificates even ones that aren't so expensice hence why Im a little annoyed our supplier wouldn't do that even tho they seem like a good family run company and very well stablished in the city they are from ....

it makes me wonder how much the jeweller marked it up? how much was it really? and what drove the price soo high compared to other stones I've seen of similar carats, a little less but insignificant oil // no oil ....

The person I asked on instagram seems to supply to quite alot of big brands in US and around the world and hes seems well known in the emmerald community hence why I was a little shocked and upset when he mentioned my fiance paid probably 3 times what its worth..... but I also know if my fiance bought it from him, he would have had to choose the stone via pictures .... which i find way too risky.
So I suppose to make my self feel betetr and like someone else mentioned, its the price you pay when you buy at brick and mortar shops....

 

[MBM14]

Thank you you are so kind. I will have a look at what you shared

Congratulations, and welcome to Pricescope @MBM14 .
I too love Muzo Green emeralds, and I like Chivor ones too.
Your emerald is a pretty colour and looks well cut and quite clean. It’s also over four carats, and size carries a premium.
I live in Singapore,, close to gem centres like Bangkok and Hong Kong. Here, the price of high quality, cleaner emeralds starts at $10,000 a carat. The per carat price increases exponentially with size. Stones with the Old Mine, Muzo Green designation command an even higher price. If you like, you might want to visit my emerald thread; https://www.pricescope.com/communit...d-green-muzo-emerald-ring.277080/post-5214355
You mentioned Instagram. Have you visited Gemfactor emerald? They have good stones from Chivor and you might be able to get an indication of price from them.
I don’t think the price your fiance paid is terribly exorbitant.
It is very hard to compare one emerald with another just looking at websites, photos and videos. It is also not easy to photograph emeralds accurately.
I would re- test the emerald only if the certificate is old. If it is recent, such as in the last few months, it should be fine. Rodrigo S lab is the best in Columbia.
I hope you will enjoy your lovely ring and be happy that your fiancé put in all the time and money to find it

the report is from 2023. Even tho I could potentially drive to Gubelin lab in swizertland I think they only accept when you ship the stones and when declaring the value paid for the stone I will need to pay for hefty customs.... I wonder how the dealers send all their stones to these labs? Do they also have to pay customs. It was George from Muzo emeralds who said it would be 800 EUROS to get the Gubelin report but I guess he forgot to mention the shipping/insurance/customs..

 

[Crimson]

the report is from 2023. Even tho I could potentially drive to Gubelin lab in swizertland I think they only accept when you ship the stones and when declaring the value paid for the stone I will need to pay for hefty customs.... I wonder how the dealers send all their stones to these labs? Do they also have to pay customs. It was George from Muzo emeralds who said it would be 800 EUROS to get the Gubelin report but I guess he forgot to mention the shipping/insurance/customs..

@MBM14 Since it was from 2023, it is worth getting it re – tested, just for your own peace of mind. This advice was given to me by Alexander Laut when I asked for his advice on the emerald ring that I eventually bought. The reason he gave was that emeralds could be re-oiled or even filled with resin after obtaining the lab report. Please don’t let this worry you. I believe most people are honest, but just for your own assurance, and because the price was not low, it’s better to be sure.
Besides Gubelin, there is SSEF in Basel. very near the German border! I often cross over when I’m in Basel. I’m not sure whether you’re in that part of Germany, though. I don’t see why SSEF or Gubelin would refuse to test a stone that you personally deliver and collect. You can even ask if they have an express service. I don’t think there would be an issue with customs because it’s your own ring, and people routinely wear their own expensive watches and jewellery when they cross borders.
Another way might be to look for a large jewellery exhibition with lots of buyers and sellers. At some of these exhibitions, at least in Asia, some labs buy a space at the exhibition to provide testing.
I hope this helps.
I’m not familiar with jewellers in Germany, but if you visit Zurich, I recommend Landolf & Huber, which is located at the Dolder Grand Hotel.

 

[MBM14]

@MBM14 Since it was from 2023, it is worth getting it re – tested, just for your own peace of mind. This advice was given to me by Alexander Laut when I asked for his advice on the emerald ring that I eventually bought. The reason he gave was that emeralds could be re-oiled or even filled with resin after obtaining the lab report. Please don’t let this worry you. I believe most people are honest, but just for your own assurance, and because the price was not low, it’s better to be sure.
Besides Gubelin, there is SSEF in Basel. very near the German border! I often cross over when I’m in Basel. I’m not sure whether you’re in that part of Germany, though. I don’t see why SSEF or Gubelin would refuse to test a stone that you personally deliver and collect. You can even ask if they have an express service. I don’t think there would be an issue with customs because it’s your own ring, and people routinely wear their own expensive watches and jewellery when they cross borders.
Another way might be to look for a large jewellery exhibition with lots of buyers and sellers. At some of these exhibitions, at least in Asia, some labs buy a space at the exhibition to provide testing.
I hope this helps.
I’m not familiar with jewellers in Germany, but if you visit Zurich, I recommend Landolf & Huber, which is located at the Dolder Grand Hotel.

Thank you so much, this is great advice! My partner lives across the border from Basel so I will definitely look at SSEF. I just read somewhere that you must ship the stone and you can't just drop by. So when you ship it to the lab you need to do all the customs paperwork and insurance and declare the price which then will incurred customs ... Im going to try and read more on that and check SSEF like you mentioned and see if I can drop it off

 

[Crimson]

Thank you so much, this is great advice! My partner lives across the border from Basel so I will definitely look at SSEF. I just read somewhere that you must ship the stone and you can't just drop by. So when you ship it to the lab you need to do all the customs paperwork and insurance and declare the price which then will incurred customs ... Im going to try and read more on that and check SSEF like you mentioned and see if I can drop it off

I have more information for you, and it is fun!!
How would you like your stone to travel to SSEF via Ferrari?

Here’s the link. https://www.ssef.ch/shipping-prices/
Alternatively, there’s on – site testing at Gem Geneve, but that will be next May. https://www.ssef.ch/on-site-testing/

 

[MBM14]

I have more information for you, and it is fun!!
How would you like your stone to travel to SSEF via Ferrari?

Here’s the link. https://www.ssef.ch/shipping-prices/
Alternatively, there’s on – site testing at Gem Geneve, but that will be next May. https://www.ssef.ch/on-site-testing/

thank you so much for sharing, this is all grea info

 

[Autumn in New England]

I have more information for you, and it is fun!!
How would you like your stone to travel to SSEF via Ferrari?

Here’s the link. https://www.ssef.ch/shipping-prices/
Alternatively, there’s on – site testing at Gem Geneve, but that will be next May. https://www.ssef.ch/on-site-testing/

Talk about luxury accommodations!