Advice appreciated

[remainderman]

Hi all,

I've been reading the forum for a few weeks and am getting closer to buying a stone, but thought I'd seek some comments and feedback before I proceed. The stone I'm looking at is a 1.01ct G SI2 Ex Ex Vg - full GIA report and photo attached, including a close up of the diagrams.

My main concern is the feathers, which I've read are potentially dangerous to the structural integrity and durability of a stone and there appear to be two feathers that go right to the edge. What are your opinions on how serious these might be? My second concern is the inclusion in the centre - will this stone be mostly eye-clean or will the inclusion be obviously visible when set?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

remainderman

 

[ecf8503]

I can't read anything on the GIA cert - can you post the Table %, depth %, crown and pavillion angles?

Plug those numbers into this: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

To my untrained eye it looks to have some leakage under the table. But I'm not an expert.

 

[remainderman]

I can't read anything on the GIA cert - can you post the Table %, depth %, crown and pavillion angles?

Plug those numbers into this: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

To my untrained eye it looks to have some leakage under the table. But I'm not an expert.

Thanks for your reply - stats are:

Table %: 61
Depth %: 61.4
Crown angle: 35
Pavillion angle: 41.2
Culet: None
Girdle: Slightly thick

Not great according to the HCA tool: despite being an Excellent cut with Vg symmetry and Excellent polish, it's come up as:

Light Return: Good
Fire: Fair
Scintillation: Fair
Spread: Very Good

On that basis would you advise steering clear due to light performance?

 

[msop04]

My main concern is the feathers, which I've read are potentially dangerous to the structural integrity and durability of a stone and there appear to be two feathers that go right to the edge. What are your opinions on how serious these might be? My second concern is the inclusion in the centre - will this stone be mostly eye-clean or will the inclusion be obviously visible when set?

remainderman

I think I'd be more concerned about the huge black chunk of carbon on the table. Judging from the photo, there is no way that will be eye clean. It's really big and right on the table -- probably the worst place to have a black inclusion.

(am I seeing things??? that is a big black inclusion towards the center at about 2 o'clock, right??)

 

[msop04]

Table %: 61
Depth %: 61.4
Crown angle: 35
Pavillion angle: 41.2
Culet: None
Girdle: Slightly thick

Not great according to the HCA tool: despite being an Excellent cut with Vg symmetry and Excellent polish, it's come up as:

Light Return: Good
Fire: Fair
Scintillation: Fair
Spread: Very Good

On that basis would you advise steering clear due to light performance?

Since HCA is 4.7, I'd steer clear of this stone. Not sure if you posted your budget, but if you do/did, we can help you find something great!

 

[msop04]

Not sure about your budget, but...

This one is a little smaller, but really nice... HCA 1.4
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-244503

This is a an H, but less expensive... HCA 1.7
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-241470

Would need JA to check if eye clean... Both are under $5K.

 

[soxfan]

I can't read anything on the GIA cert - can you post the Table %, depth %, crown and pavillion angles?

Plug those numbers into this: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

To my untrained eye it looks to have some leakage under the table. But I'm not an expert.

Thanks for your reply - stats are:

Table %: 61
Depth %: 61.4
Crown angle: 35
Pavillion angle: 41.2
Culet: None
Girdle: Slightly thick

Not great according to the HCA tool: despite being an Excellent cut with Vg symmetry and Excellent polish, it's come up as:

Light Return: Good
Fire: Fair
Scintillation: Fair
Spread: Very Good

On that basis would you advise steering clear due to light performance?

Yes. I continue to become more and more confused about GIA "excellent" cuts every day...

 

[Christina...]

You may find this article on feathers helpful...but I think that your larger concern may be the cut of this particular stone. Can you get an ideal scope image from the vendor?

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk

 

[remainderman]

Thanks all, really helpful. I think I'm going to let this one go due to the black inclusion in the middle (the vendor says it's eye clean but I agree that it's very unlikely to be), the poor light performance and the risk of the feathers on the edge to durability/integrity.

I'm in the UK and my budget is the equivalent of $6000-7000 including VAT (a 20% tax on goods) and the setting. Essentially I'm looking for a 1ct GIA stone, not too bothered about clarity as long as it's essentially eye-clean (or near enough) and I'm happy to go for G-H colour. I'm beginning to understand that cut and light performance are the most important things, so it would have to score highly on both.

Thanks again for your help - I feel like I'm learning so much about all of this!

 

[mcosme]

Some suggestions

HCA 1.8 http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-231815
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-230426
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.07-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-21039

 

[MaximusCruiser]

Thanks all, really helpful. I think I'm going to let this one go due to the black inclusion in the middle (the vendor says it's eye clean but I agree that it's very unlikely to be), the poor light performance and the risk of the feathers on the edge to durability/integrity.

I'm in the UK and my budget is the equivalent of $6000-7000 including VAT (a 20% tax on goods) and the setting. Essentially I'm looking for a 1ct GIA stone, not too bothered about clarity as long as it's essentially eye-clean (or near enough) and I'm happy to go for G-H colour. I'm beginning to understand that cut and light performance are the most important things, so it would have to score highly on both.

Thanks again for your help - I feel like I'm learning so much about all of this!

I am just wondering... is taking a short trip to Antwerp, Belgium a viable option to get the diamond and save the 20% VAT?

I was there 2 years ago... did not really find any bargains... then again, I wasn't really seriously looking and had no leads. But I heard many people from Europe travel there to get their diamonds and save quite a fair bit... and earn a "free" holiday.

Anyone have any experience on that?

 

[msop04]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-230426
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.07-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-21039

I really love these two that istase2000 found! You should put them on hold ASAP!

 

[remainderman]

Some suggestions

HCA 1.8 http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-231815
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-230426
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.07-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-21039

That second one (SKU 230426) does look excellent - unfortunately I think buying it all the way from the US might be a bit much!

I've found one that I think might be just right - extracts from GIA certificate below. It fits all my criteria: near colourless, excellent cut, light performance score of 1.6 on HCA, and looks to have no major inclusions on the table. My concerns are the many indented naturals around the edge (durability concern?) and the fact that the certificate worryingly says "Clarity grade is based on clouds that are not shown" - I'm asking the vendor for a close-up photograph but I wonder whether the clouds are very bad and/or will seriously affect light performance to make it SI2.

Do you guys have any thoughts?

 

[msop04]

That really would be a great stone if it's eye clean!! I'm interested in seeing the photograph! Did you find it locally?

 

[remainderman]

That really would be a great stone if it's eye clean!! I'm interested in seeing the photograph! Did you find it locally?

I'm using the website of a company that I've visited based in Hatton Garden, which is the diamond centre of London, but I suspect most of the stones are abroad and they have to ship them in. Not sure where this one is located though. Still waiting to hear back - hopefully the clouds can't be that serious if the grader hasn't even plotted them on the diagram!

BTW, it's roughly $5,500 for the stone on its own.

 

[remainderman]

That really would be a great stone if it's eye clean!! I'm interested in seeing the photograph! Did you find it locally?

Photo below - comments appreciated! I've got a hold on it and am planning on making a decision tomorrow. Looks ok to me, but I'd love to know what everyone else thinks. I can't see any inclusions from the photo with the exception of the indented naturals on the edge - one of them is quite noticeable but I'm sure it can be covered with a claw when set.

 

[remainderman]

UPDATE: I've heard back from the vendor who says that he had had someone inspect the stone and it's milky/hazy - I can't see this from the photograph or the certificate, but I've said I'll leave it. In a way it makes sense as otherwise it would presumably have been a lot more expensive!

 

[msop04]

UPDATE: I've heard back from the vendor who says that he had had someone inspect the stone and it's milky/hazy - I can't see this from the photograph or the certificate, but I've said I'll leave it. In a way it makes sense as otherwise it would presumably have been a lot more expensive!

That's a shame... Did you put the others on hold at JA?

 

[JulieN]

You should stay away from SI2s where there is a comment, "Clarity based on clouds not shown." The plot may look very clean but it often will have a hazy appearance.

 

[remainderman]

You should stay away from SI2s where there is a comment, "Clarity based on clouds not shown." The plot may look very clean but it often will have a hazy appearance.

Solid advice, thanks all. Having looked into this issue a bit more, I now realise that when a certificate says "Additional clouds not shown" it means the clouds might be fairly wide-spread and could affect appearance and brilliance - I think this is a bit irritating because diagrams I had previously understood to be fairly clear of inclusions now need to be re-considered in view of that. It must have been particularly bad with the stone I picked above because the comments specifically said "Clarity based on clouds not shown" - in hindsight I should probably have realised that it would be entirely hazy as there were hardly any other inclusions but it was graded SI2!

I've realised that I need to up my budget slightly to get something without clouds or serious inclusions - I've found a decent SI1 stone which I'm checking on now. If the vendor confirms it's available, I'll post all the specs for comments before making a decision.

Thanks again all.

 

[delight]

Some suggestions

HCA 1.8 http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-231815
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-230426
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.07-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-21039

That second one (SKU 230426) does look excellent - unfortunately I think buying it all the way from the US might be a bit much!

I've found one that I think might be just right - extracts from GIA certificate below. It fits all my criteria: near colourless, excellent cut, light performance score of 1.6 on HCA, and looks to have no major inclusions on the table. My concerns are the many indented naturals around the edge (durability concern?) and the fact that the certificate worryingly says "Clarity grade is based on clouds that are not shown" - I'm asking the vendor for a close-up photograph but I wonder whether the clouds are very bad and/or will seriously affect light performance to make it SI2.

Do you guys have any thoughts?

SKIP THIS STONE. NEVER EVER BUY A SI2 DIAMOND WITH CLEAN PLOTS.

The comment section is reason enough to ding this stone.

 

[remainderman]

Hi all,

So, after a fair bit of trial and error, I think I have found the perfect stone for me - pictures below. It's a 1 carat, H-coloured SI1 GIA stone with excellent cut and symmetry and very good polish. According to HCA, the light performance score is 0.7 - excellent across the board. And the certificate doesn't show or mention any clouds at all. The Key to Symbols isn't shown here, but the order is feather, crystal, pinpoint, indented natural.

The only issue for me is the inclusion in the table of the stone which can be seen on the photo and the diagram - this is made up of a couple of feathers and a crystal, though in my opinion from the photo this looks to be fairly hard to see and I think the stone could even be eye clean or close enough. I am asking the vendor to check it and get back to me, but assuming it is I may go ahead and buy now.

Does anyone have any comments or advice before I do?

Thanks in advance!