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Acceptable Bow Tie?

gregchang35

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
2,990
I am not an oval person. So I can’t critique as much as others. But, from what I can see it looks reasonable.

with fancy cuts, an ASET image is going to help.

But, most vendors don’t have ASET images. So, if you can get more imaging/ video of the stone face up? The video is of the entire diamond... when I see the face up video, it’s only for a very short period of time and is hard to assess. Perhaps have it on the back of ones hand / between fingers and then get them to rock the oval from side to side . Or hold the diamond in tweezers and have it rock from side to side, face up. It will help in the overall assessment.



also, get the diamond sitting on a ring setting of some sort. you will see some of the bow tie, if there is one.
 

monipod

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
472
I think as others have said with stones you can't see in person, just make sure the vendor has a sound return policy. If you're not happy with it in real life, then you can send it back.

Your stone looks pretty good to this untrained eye.
 

JP 134

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
9
Thanks for the replies everyone. Unfortunately, the store only has an exchange policy since when mounted its considered custom. I can ask for a pic of the ring mounted and ASET image if they have one. Here is a video the jeweler sent me. I think I see a bowtie on the 5 sec mark, and attached a screen shot-let me know if this is accurate. Also, Pplease let me know what to ask for, as even though I can exchange, I obviously want to get this right on the first try.

Screen Shot 2020-09-06 at 9.07.54 AM.png
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,491
Let me think how to explain this...I'll start out by saying that I consider a bow-tie to be dark where the facets are not returning light.

The facets through the center of the stone are much bigger and return light more directly than smaller virtual facets so you see the
center of the stone differently than the smaller virtual facets that tend to reach towards the rounded ends of an oval.

I second @marymm ...try to view the stone before you have it set so that it is returnable/refundable (if this is possible).

It looks like a decent oval. Some of the best ovals, IMO, have the stronger facets that reach up towards the rounded ends of the
stone. You will mainly see this as you tilt or rotate the stone.

This would be an example of what I'm talking about...more strong facets come into view as the stone is rotated. I usually find this
pattern in 6-main ovals that tend to be on the shorter side. So, it can be somewhat of a trade-off to get the best light return as well
as a nice length.


I think seeing the stone and comparing it to some videos of stones online will help you decide if its the stone for you. If you plan on
asking your vendor to bring in more stones ask for some 6 mains with good light return (there are also 6 mains that dont look good but
hopefully your vendor will weed those out.

Edit...bottom line...I think the stone your vendor has is worth seeing in person if its returnable (full refund). If not, I think I would find a
different vendor to work with (but that's me).
 

JP 134

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
9
It looks like a nice oval ... OP, why can't you buy the diamond loose and have it shipped to you for inspection while within the 30-day return period? Then either send it back with approval to set it in your chosen ring or send it back for refund?
Thanks, on a little bit of a time crunch unfortunately. So trying to make an educated decision.
 

JP 134

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
9
Let me think how to explain this...I'll start out by saying that I consider a bow-tie to be dark where the facets are not returning light.

The facets through the center of the stone are much bigger and return light more directly than smaller virtual facets so you see the
center of the stone differently than the smaller virtual facets that tend to reach towards the rounded ends of an oval.

I second @marymm ...try to view the stone before you have it set so that it is returnable/refundable (if this is possible).

It looks like a decent oval. Some of the best ovals, IMO, have the stronger facets that reach up towards the rounded ends of the
stone. You will mainly see this as you tilt or rotate the stone.

This would be an example of what I'm talking about...more strong facets come into view as the stone is rotated. I usually find this
pattern in 6-main ovals that tend to be on the shorter side. So, it can be somewhat of a trade-off to get the best light return as well
as a nice length.


I think seeing the stone and comparing it to some videos of stones online will help you decide if its the stone for you. If you plan on
asking your vendor to bring in more stones ask for some 6 mains with good light return (there are also 6 mains that dont look good but
hopefully your vendor will weed those out.

Edit...bottom line...I think the stone your vendor has is worth seeing in person if its returnable (full refund). If not, I think I would find a
different vendor to work with (but that's me).
Thank you for the detailed response! Very educational. Do you think it's possible to find a oval with less of a bow tie, or is it commonly accepted that they will all have it to some extent?
 

JP 134

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
9
ditto to seeing it with a return policy.
That is just a small bowtiie under 4-5x the obstruction of viewing it in person. Its a good sign.
Should I aim to find one without any bow tie? As these diamonds are such high prices, I want to make sure my expectations are within reason.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,431
Should I aim to find one without any bow tie? As these diamonds are such high prices, I want to make sure my expectations are within reason.
The real question is how much of an eye visible bowtie it has not a camera visable one. The photo\video does not answer that but it looks promising.
The pictures will almost always show more bowtie than in person.
ask you dealer to eyeball it and talk to yoou.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,734
That is not a bowtie - it is some tiny bits of the camera / phone being reflected back to the lens.
Here is a bowtie and a gif that shows what causes a bowtie.
round diamonds have black stars that are the equivalent - if the stars / bowtie turns white bright it is great - that is scintillation
Bow Tie.jpg Bow Tie.jpg shallow girl gif.gif
 

gregchang35

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
2,990
you have been given great advice from others and from trade members as well. So some good food for your thinking process.


WIth the imaging that has been provided, is it possible for your vendor to only show the face up side with tweezers, and not the pavilion side? The face up side is the side that most ppl will see the stone. that way, we can assess it more closely. Showing the pavilions (the side with the pointy end) is not one that ppl see at all, but does help when assessing clarity.

i feel you with respect to the time crunch. but for a safer bet, you need to be able to see the stone in person to see if there is a bow tie, and, if any, if it is an issue for you or not. And, a vendor that allows for a refund after inspecting it, and not trading it. Yes, there is a lot of handling, but that is a safer bet.

Ask vendor to put that stone in a 'standard' or similar setting to hold that diamond. Sometimes, the bow tie may be more visible once there is a metal band under the stone. that is more to do with leakage of a stone...bUt if there is no bow tie, then you are sweet.
 
Last edited:

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,734
you have been given great advice from others and from trade members as well. So some good food for your thinking process.


WIth the imaging that has been provided, is it possible for your vendor to only show the face up side with tweezers, and not the pavilion side? The face up side is the side that most ppl will see the stone. that way, we can assess it more closely. Showing the pavilions (the side with the pointy end) is not one that ppl see at all, but does help when assessing clarity.

i feel you with respect to the time crunch. but for a safer bet, you need to be able to see the stone in person to see if there is a bow tie, and, if any, if it is an issue for you or not. And, a vendor that allows for a refund after inspecting it, and not trading it. Yes, there is a lot of handling, but that is a safer bet.

Ask vendor to put that stone in a 'standard' or similar setting to hold that diamond. Sometimes, the bow tie may be more visible once there is a metal band under the stone. that is more to do with leakage of a stone...bUt if there is no bow tie, then you are sweet.
Greg the diamond does not have a bowtie.
And nothing behind the diamond like the setting has anything to do with the effect of a bowtie.
When you see a bow tie it is you looking into a diamond and seeing your head and body!
 

gregchang35

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
2,990
Greg the diamond does not have a bowtie.
And nothing behind the diamond like the setting has anything to do with the effect of a bowtie.
When you see a bow tie it is you looking into a diamond and seeing your head and body!
THanx... thaxn for clarifying, and if it changes with the movement, then it is scintilaltion. With the stone is in a ring/ setting and we see a colour thru the stone, i think it has to do more with the leakage of the stone. I am hoping that is what is transpired when i wrote it.

Apologies to those reading it, if it isn't clear what i wrote.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,734
THanx... thaxn for clarifying, and if it changes with the movement, then it is scintilaltion. With the stone is in a ring/ setting and we see a colour thru the stone, i think it has to do more with the leakage of the stone. I am hoping that is what is transpired when i wrote it.

Apologies to those reading it, if it isn't clear what i wrote.
"With the stone is in a ring/ setting and we see a colour thru the stone, i think it has to do more with the leakage of the stone. I am hoping that is what is transpired when i wrote it."
This effect (and the stars in a round) disappear when you poke a hole in a sheet of white paper and peep thru.
 

JP 134

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
9
That is not a bowtie - it is some tiny bits of the camera / phone being reflected back to the lens.
Here is a bowtie and a gif that shows what causes a bowtie.
round diamonds have black stars that are the equivalent - if the stars / bowtie turns white bright it is great - that is scintillation
Bow Tie.jpg Bow Tie.jpg shallow girl gif.gif
Hi Gary,
To clarify, is it not a bow tie because it’s not consistent at different angles? Apologies if this is obvious, as I’m new to all this. Here’s a pic of 3 precious diamonds she showed me which had bad bow ties in the light. This one looks better but at a high price point I want to get as close to “ DB3CDE10-A05F-463E-B4C6-09E65696381D.png DB3CDE10-A05F-463E-B4C6-09E65696381D.png perfect” as possible.
 

Attachments

KristinTech

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,567
DB13E0AF-88AF-4514-A557-2DBA4C1DBB2F.jpeg 4176735F-1C69-47DF-B19F-211E169FB955.jpeg

I’m just attaching these pics here for the OP and anyone reading this thread in the future. I wear these two stones daily, so I get a lot of comparison time!

My oval is 1.01 F SI1 ... The round is 1.23 E SI2 CBI. I have found that what Gary mentioned has been my experience... when the round CBI shows black arrows, the center of my oval will also go dark. You can see here that both are bright. The wide flashes of color in my oval are gorgeous when the lighting is right.
 

bright&shiny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
256
Jonathan at Distinctive Gems has a cut for ovals that is amazing. No bow ties. They look fantastic and you might want to look at them for comparison. Full disclosure - I have an older stone cut (round h&a x modified princess) from him (gog) and it out performs many others. I’m currently looking at an upgrade to an oval
 

Big Fat Facets

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
1,207
@bright&shiny @JP 134

i believe jonathan has the elyque oval and the heritage oval. two very different looks, without the bowtie.

but the website is confusing, to me. i cant tell if heritage oval is just for moissanite and lab diamonds...
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,275
@bright&shiny @JP 134

i believe jonathan has the elyque oval and the heritage oval. two very different looks, without the bowtie.

but the website is confusing, to me. i cant tell if heritage oval is just for moissanite and lab diamonds...
At the moment yes, Heritage is for both moissy and lab diamond. We cut both/either.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
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