About to buy ... final advice please.

[helios_haze]

Thanks to all Pricescopers for the valuable information on these boards! I wanted some final thoughts before I sealed the deal! I struggled with the GIA/AGS versus EGL debate and since I saw some very pretty EGL stones at a local jeweler, I decided that it can''t be THAT bad. To be safe, I went with one color grade higher than I needed compared to a GIA cert. I''m hoping the clarity grade is same as a GIA clarity grade - fingers crossed.

Size is an important consideration for us. I chose Union Diamond''s Select Ideal because it gave a HCA score of 1.0.

Questions:
Is the girdle too thick - will it affect light performance?
Is the price resonable?
Please let me know if I am missing something/making a mistake?

Price: $14015
Certificate: EGL

Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Cut Grade: EGL Ideal
Shape: Round
Cut: Select Ideal™ /EGL Ideal
Carat: 1.85
Color: G
Clarity: VS2

Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 7.88-7.79-4.8
Depth Percentage: 61.1 %
Table Percentage: 58 %
Girdle: M-SLTHK F (2% - 3.4%)
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None (Inert)
Pavilion: 36.2 degrees
Crown: 40.1 degrees

 

[agc]

I''m assuming the crown and pavilion angles are flipped. Regardless, I''m not crazy about tha ca/pa combo or the EGL cert.

 

[stone_seeker]

check out this sheet by Lorelei for rounds. Will give you some ideas on proper specs for rounds.

I dont know enough about EGL to know how they grade vs GIA and what the market thinks about them from a $ standpoint.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/30/2008 8:50:02 PM
Author: agc
I'm assuming the crown and pavilion angles are flipped. Regardless, I'm not crazy about tha ca/pa combo or the EGL cert.

I'm assuming they're probably correct, and I would without a doubt pass on this stone. You can do much better.

Use Lorelei's cheat sheet to help with the numbers.

 

[helios_haze]

My bad ... indeed the crown and pavilion were flipped!

These are correct:

Crown: 36.2
Pavilion: 40.1

Thanks for the comments so far. Does it fare better now?

 

[helios_haze]

What do your mean by ca/pa combo??

I''m assuming the crown and pavilion angles are flipped. Regardless, I''m not crazy about tha ca/pa combo or the EGL cert.

 

[helios_haze]

Here are the results of the HCA (quite good). I would appreciate understanding why posters are not excited about the stone?

Factor Grade

Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

Total Visual Performance 1 - Excellent
within FIC range

 

[jough]

In response to the comment that you could do much better, I thought I''d see what I could find similar to your specs. I''m no expert but how about this one?

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=45052516&src=builder

I couldn''t find the ca/pa but the table and depth (and price) look a little better. On the USCerted site the notes say:

"EGL USA PG IDEAL PLUS H & A GOOD SI2 EYE CLEAN"

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=7878065&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=&_ln=ps

Could be worth looking into for comparison. It''s hard to say w/o the ca/pa but you could request the cert.

Personally, I''m with you: when buying a RB, if the numbers/angles work out, why pay more for a GIA/AGS cert?

 

[helios_haze]

Thanks jough!

What does everyone think about this one?? It fits with Lorelei''s specs except for Pavilion (by 0.1° less)

Stone 86124504D
Weight 1.88 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color H
Clarity VS2
Measurements 7.97 x 7.93 x 4.85 mm
Depth 61%
Table 56%
Crown 15.5%
Pavilion 42.4%
Crown Angle 35°
Pavilion Angle 40.5°
Girdle MEDIUM FACETED
Polish EXCELLENT
Symmetry EXCELLENT
Fluorescence N/A
Culet N/A
Cut Grade IDEAL PLUS
Comments Girdle inscribed "EGL US 86124504D"
UGS Appraisal Value N/A

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/31/2008 2:39:00 AM
Author: helios_haze
Thanks jough!

What does everyone think about this one?? It fits with Lorelei''s specs except for Pavilion (by 0.1° less)

Stone 86124504D
Weight 1.88 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color H
Clarity VS2
Measurements 7.97 x 7.93 x 4.85 mm
Depth 61%
Table 56%
Crown 15.5%
Pavilion 42.4%
Crown Angle 35°
Pavilion Angle 40.5°
Girdle MEDIUM FACETED
Polish EXCELLENT
Symmetry EXCELLENT
Fluorescence N/A
Culet N/A
Cut Grade IDEAL PLUS
Comments Girdle inscribed ''EGL US 86124504D''
UGS Appraisal Value N/A

Hi Helios,

This one could be a nice stone, can you ask for an Idealscope image?

 

[helios_haze]

I saw this stone today and it is a stunner!! I am deciding betwen this one and the larger 2.22 (posted in another thread) ... tough choice but I will keep you guys posted as I wind this process down. Thanks everyone !!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/1/2008 10:31:38 PM
Author: helios_haze
I saw this stone today and it is a stunner!! I am deciding betwen this one and the larger 2.22 (posted in another thread) ... tough choice but I will keep you guys posted as I wind this process down. Thanks everyone !!

Great stuff!

 

[helios_haze]

I have asked WF to bring this in. I am excited to see the visual performance results. Should have this in a couple of days. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!

****

They will be setting this in Divisi
http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/The--Divisi--by-WF_1068.htm

I hope she likes it

****

Is the ca/pa combo OK?

Crown: 35 degrees/15.5%
Pavilion: 40.5 degrees/42.4%

 

[:)]

It definitely has potential - post the idealscope image when they get it!

 

[helios_haze]

Finally, I have the pics. Please give me feedback

 

[helios_haze]

The culet worries me ... the original cert had it as n/a ... does the culet cause a problem?

 

[helios_haze]

I wonder if those are inclusions between 4 and 6 o'clock (near the girdle)?

 

[:)]

I think you found a winner! It looks like ''schmutz'' that you are seeing between 4-6 o clock - just some oil from a hand or something - remember it is greatly magnified. Culet is fine.

 

[helios_haze]

Thanks for the quick reply

Checked with WF. Looks like those are inclusions. Waiting for another 'expert' opinion

 

[:)]

Hmm. Darn. It is a VS stone so I hope it is just the magnification of the photo making it visible. Is the expert opinion to let you know about eyecleanliness? I know that is important to you.

 

[helios_haze]

Yes I want another eye-cleanliness opinion. It shouldn''t become a mind-cleanliness issue later on!

We previously looked at the stone very closely (3 inches) but didn''t see this. It only came to our notice in the 40X picture ... so there is something to be said about that!

 

[:)]

Date: 8/7/2008 5:40:17 PM
Author: helios_haze
Yes I want another eye-cleanliness opinion. It shouldn''t become a mind-cleanliness issue later on!

We previously looked at the stone very closely (3 inches) but didn''t see this. It only came to our notice in the 40X picture ... so there is something to be said about that!

I understand! Remember clarity grading is done at 10X. If you magnify any of these enough you will see something!
Can you go back now and look again now that you have seen it at 40X to see if you can pick it out knowing what is there?

 

[purrfectpear]

You will see all sorts of things at 40X that will be invisible at 10X (where stones are actually graded at), much less visible to the eye.

 

[jstarfireb]

Is this the EGL H/VS2? They say only 1 person in 100 can see a VS2 inclusion with the naked eye, so a VS2 is virtually guaranteed to be eye clean. However, this holds for a "true" VS2 stone. You might want to ask WF to eyeball it and see if they believe it''s actually a VS2, since EGL is notorious for being incorrect on the color/clarity grades. You also might want to make sure it''s a true H; perhaps have WF get an appraisal before setting it? Otherwise, it looks nice!

 

[helios_haze]

Indeed, it is an EGL. I have carefully navigated the lower color/clarity conundrum. I found this stone after much research! I figured that the stated EGL USA, H VS2 was likely a GIA I SI1 equivalent at best or J SI2 at worst. The folks at WF have confirmed that it would rate as a GIA I SI1 and I am comfortable with that. This stone fits my needs perfectly and looks like a pretty one, to the best of my knowledge ... unless you genius PSers disagree.

What's the deal with the Star/Upper ratio of 49:51? Is that a good or bad thing?

, jstarfireb, purrfectpear - thanks for the feedback.

Ellen, Lorelei, Garry, John P. and others - I'm waiting for your final words before I pull the trigger.

 

[agc]

One concern with some diamonds with PA of 40.5 is head and shoulder obstruction. This can cause some of these diamonds to appear darker. Ask the WF staff to look at that and they will help you. This may indeed be a great diamond but don''t be afraid to ask WF questions and their opinion.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/8/2008 6:10:24 AM
Author: agc
One concern with some diamonds with PA of 40.5 is head and shoulder obstruction. This can cause some of these diamonds to appear darker. Ask the WF staff to look at that and they will help you. This may indeed be a great diamond but don't be afraid to ask WF questions and their opinion.

I don't think that would be a concern in this case and the crown angle could help balance it. Helios it looks like a good diamond!

This should help you with the star facet query - http://www.goodoldgold.com/classic.php?page=minor_facets.htm Take the diamond as a whole as you have, but the star/ upper ratio measurement is fine.

 

[helios_haze]

Thanks Lorelei. I inferred that the 49:51 ratio is OK but not the best! Did I read you correct?

What is the range for v. good/excellent on the Star/Upper ratio and Lower Girdle halves?

I have asked for the ASET image but for all purposes, have pulled the trigger (on a tight timeframe)

 

[helios_haze]

ASET image attached.

Any red flags?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 8/8/2008 11:48:03 AM
Author: helios_haze
Thanks Lorelei. I inferred that the 49:51 ratio is OK but not the best! Did I read you correct?

What is the range for v. good/excellent on the Star/Upper ratio and Lower Girdle halves?

I have asked for the ASET image but for all purposes, have pulled the trigger (on a tight timeframe)

The ratio is only part of the diamond Helios and not a determining factor on it's own, the ratio on your stone should be perfectly fine, no worries! GIA apparently award an Excellent rating to S/U ratio of 45 - 65 so you are well within that. The lower girdle also seems fine for your diamond too and the ASET also.