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Abortion Ban Victory in OK

kenny

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While I'm sure this new bill will be eventually ruled unconstitutional I find it disturbing that these people have so much power.

Not every woman can just move out of the South and live in a state where she has control over her own body.
Even if anti-choicers are in the majority in the South it's another example of how the wonderful US Constitution protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36335316

"Lawmakers in the US state of Oklahoma have passed a bill that would make the act of performing an abortion a crime.
Under the bill, a doctor who performs an abortion could be sentenced to up to three years in prison and be barred from practicing medicine the state.
Abortion is legal in the United States and abortion-rights activists say the bill is unconstitutional.
The legislation now heads to Governor Mary Fallin who has previously backed curbs on abortion.

Two abortion clinics remain in Oklahoma after the state recently enacted a number of new regulations on the facilities.
Ms Fallin, a rising star in conservative circles, has been mentioned as a potential running mate for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.
Anti-abortion groups said they hoped to use the bill to trigger a legal case that would overturn Roe v Wade, the Supreme Court verdict that made abortion legal in 1973.

Legislation similar to that in Oklahoma was enacted in Utah and Louisiana in 1991 but the laws were later ruled unconstitutional.
In recent years, conservatives have sought to tighten restrictions on abortion clinics and doctors rather than seek an outright ban.
Abortion rights advocates say these measures are meant to restrict women's access to abortion.

The new laws are particularly widespread in conservative southern states.
This week, South Carolina's legislators passed a bill that would bar abortions after the 19 weeks of pregnancy."
 

lovedogs

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This is so disturbing. Women's rights are one of my biggest concerns with the current state of the republican party. I am liberal on almost every issue, but of course feel more strongly about some issues compared to others. This (and the racism/anti-LGBT) is what scares me the most about Trump. Lots of things scare me about him, but this is the one I find the most upsetting as a woman. I LITERALLY cannot imagine how a woman could be in favor of this--even if she doesn't personally agree that abortions are moral--it's the bigger issue of women not having control over our OWN BODIES and choices.
 

jordyonbass

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Leave women and their bodies alone, if you don't like abortion then don't get one - it is that simple. Why is it so hard for people to understand that a person is entitled to their own body?
 

liaerfbv

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Abortion victories are only step one. Republicans won't rest until there's a registry of all intercourse that happens between a man and his property, wait, I mean wife, for ONLY the purpose of procreation, and any woman who orgasms will be penalized.

I'm exaggerating... but not really.
 

AGBF

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ksinger must have been behind this. She's from Oklahoma.

Deb
:saint:
 

Gypsy

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We need the Supreme Court nomination to go through.
 

JaneSmith

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They are trying to open a wedge to overturn Roe vs Wade. States have passed similar laws before, all struck down, as this one too should be.

I wonder how many of the people supporting this bill have had an abortion, and rationalized that theirs was somehow just.

Agree with liaerfbv. Some seem incensed by women who like tof*ck consequence free.

Agree with jordyonbass. Bodily autonomy is paramount.

Remember when DT said women should be punished for having abortions? He was made to walk that one back quickly because he once again straight out said a Republican position unfettered by the usual weasel-words and dog whistles.
 

missy

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Hard to fathom we are still fighting this battle. And yes it will be the poor who suffer the real life consequences should abortion ever become illegal again. The women who cannot afford safe illegal abortions and who get either butchered by back alley incompetent doctors or have unwanted babies. Unfu*king believable. OK(lahoma) you are so NOT OK.
 

AGBF

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missy|1463736798|4033920 said:
And yes it will be the poor who suffer the real life consequences should abortion ever become illegal again. The women who cannot afford safe illegal abortions and who get either butchered by back alley incompetent doctors or have unwanted babies.
This is exactly right. I am old enough to remember when abortion was illegal in most states. (Back before Roe v. Wade abortion was decided on a state by state basis. Now there is a law of the land, although one wouldn't know it to look at the craziness in our statehouses.) Back before Roe v. Wade and the laws making abortion legal in many states (which preceded Roe v. Wade) the women with money could always find private clinics with good, discreet doctors right here in the US and also places to which to fly where an abortion was safe and legal when they needed one. I believe that Puerto Rico was one such destination.

AGBF
 

ksinger

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I pretty much lack the energy to put down my feelings on this matter. There is only so much screaming at the bottom of a well that I can do - I simply cannot afford to be that churned up anymore. I merely ask you to contemplate how wonderful it is to be a person who is against almost everything her state does, and yet has to deal every day with the fact that there are never EVER enough of us here to turn the direction of the state. Yes, it makes me cranky. I'm certain no other state is more in thrall to particularly brutal expression of religion and a desire to reestablish some mythical form of the 1950s, where the women, peasants, and people who don't look and think like the lily-white overlords, knew their place in the pecking order.
 

AGBF

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ksinger|1463747016|4033939 said:
I pretty much lack the energy to put down my feelings on this matter. There is only so much screaming at the bottom of a well that I can do - I simply cannot afford to be that churned up anymore. I merely ask you to contemplate how wonderful it is to be a person who is against almost everything her state does, and yet has to deal every day with the fact that there are never EVER enough of us here to turn the direction of the state. Yes, it makes me cranky. I'm certain no other state is more in thrall to particularly brutal expression of religion and a desire to reestablish some mythical form of the 1950s, where the women, peasants, and people who don't look and think like the lily-white overlords, knew their place in the pecking order.
Keep the faith, K. I often feel the same way about being from the United States. Then I get surprised by something wonderful, like The Supreme Court holding that same sex marriage is a Constitutional right and I take heart. Some of us are on the same page that you are.

Deb :wavey:
 

liaerfbv

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ksinger|1463747016|4033939 said:
I pretty much lack the energy to put down my feelings on this matter. There is only so much screaming at the bottom of a well that I can do - I simply cannot afford to be that churned up anymore. I merely ask you to contemplate how wonderful it is to be a person who is against almost everything her state does, and yet has to deal every day with the fact that there are never EVER enough of us here to turn the direction of the state. Yes, it makes me cranky. I'm certain no other state is more in thrall to particularly brutal expression of religion and a desire to reestablish some mythical form of the 1950s, where the women, peasants, and people who don't look and think like the lily-white overlords, knew their place in the pecking order.

I live in Florida - I feel your pain. I suffer the fate that there ARE enough of us here to turn the tide, but the gerrymandering is so out of bounds we will never make a dent. I also feel certain pockets of Florida never LEFT the 1950s, much less want to progress out of it.
 

ame

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jordyonbass|1463689810|4033698 said:
Leave women and their bodies alone, if you don't like abortion then don't get one - it is that simple. Why is it so hard for people to understand that a person is entitled to their own body?
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

Laila619

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JaneSmith|1463717379|4033866 said:
They are trying to open a wedge to overturn Roe vs Wade. States have passed similar laws before, all struck down, as this one too should be.

I wonder how many of the people supporting this bill have had an abortion, and rationalized that theirs was somehow just.

Agree with liaerfbv. Some seem incensed by women who like tof*ck consequence free.
Well their "f*cking" isn't always consequence free, now, is it? There's the tiny little issue of having to stop their fetus' beating heart and then bleed out the products of conception for 1-2 weeks. Let's at least be honest. It's not really consequence free, is it?
 

JaneSmith

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Laila619|1463754088|4033976 said:
JaneSmith|1463717379|4033866 said:
They are trying to open a wedge to overturn Roe vs Wade. States have passed similar laws before, all struck down, as this one too should be.

I wonder how many of the people supporting this bill have had an abortion, and rationalized that theirs was somehow just.

Agree with liaerfbv. Some seem incensed by women who like tof*ck consequence free.
Well their "f*cking" isn't always consequence free, now, is it? There's the tiny little issue of having to stop their fetus' beating heart and then bleed out the products of conception for 1-2 weeks. Let's at least be honest. It's not really consequence free, is it?
"Miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a pregnancy before the 20th week. About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. But the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant."
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pregnancy-loss-miscarriage/basics/definition/con-20033827

I wonder how many of us have unknowingly expelled a zygote?


"Medical abortions performed in the first 9 weeks of pregnancy have a very low risk of complications. This risk is the same as when a woman has a natural miscarriage. These problems can easily be treated by a doctor.

Out of every 100 women that do medical abortions, 2 or 3 women have to go to a doctor, first aid center, or hospital to receive further medical care. In countries where childbirth is safe, 1 in every 10.000 women dies during childbirth. Less than 1 in every 100,000 women who use a medical abortion die, making medical abortions safer than childbirth and about as safe as naturally occurring miscarriages."
https://www.womenonweb.org/en/page/561/is-a-medical-abortion-dangerous

_3697.jpeg
 

kenny

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ksinger|1463747016|4033939 said:
I pretty much lack the energy to put down my feelings on this matter. There is only so much screaming at the bottom of a well that I can do - I simply cannot afford to be that churned up anymore. I merely ask you to contemplate how wonderful it is to be a person who is against almost everything her state does, and yet has to deal every day with the fact that there are never EVER enough of us here to turn the direction of the state. Yes, it makes me cranky. I'm certain no other state is more in thrall to particularly brutal expression of religion and a desire to reestablish some mythical form of the 1950s, where the women, peasants, and people who don't look and think like the lily-white overlords, knew their place in the pecking order.
Ksinger, that was a deft job of expressing your feelings. :appl:
 

monarch64

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Laila619|1463754088|4033976 said:
JaneSmith|1463717379|4033866 said:
They are trying to open a wedge to overturn Roe vs Wade. States have passed similar laws before, all struck down, as this one too should be.

I wonder how many of the people supporting this bill have had an abortion, and rationalized that theirs was somehow just.

Agree with liaerfbv. Some seem incensed by women who like tof*ck consequence free.
Well their "f*cking" isn't always consequence free, now, is it? There's the tiny little issue of having to stop their fetus' beating heart and then bleed out the products of conception for 1-2 weeks. Let's at least be honest. It's not really consequence free, is it?

I am so sorry that you and others have been brainwashed into believing everything you're told about how stuff works. I honestly cannot imagine living a life so LIMITED. But it is YOUR CHOICE to believe as you do, and to behave in ways which conform to the standards others have set for you. Just leave MY CHOICE out of it, and respect that other humans have basic civil rights to do as they please with their bodies and the contents therein.
 

AGBF

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Laila619|1463754088|4033976 said:
Well their "f*cking" isn't always consequence free, now, is it? There's the tiny little issue of having to stop their fetus' beating heart and then bleed out the products of conception for 1-2 weeks. Let's at least be honest. It's not really consequence free, is it?
First, a "fetus", when first formed, has no heart at all, never mind a beating one. My Catholic mother used to refer to the time now used as a cutoff in Roe v. Wade as a time in pregnancy called "the quickening". She told me that only after the quickening did many women become upset when they miscarried (aborted spontaneously). (I realize, of course, that "people vary", and I would never want to minimize the pain a woman experiences when she loses a pregnancy she cherishes. I cried every time I menstruated when I was trying to conceive.)

Second, "f*cking" appears to be consequence free for men. Men use abortions and pregnancy to punish women for their part in what , by definition, has to be a mutual effort.
 

JaneSmith

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AGBF|1463766883|4034064 said:
"f*cking" appears to be consequence free for men. Men use abortions and pregnancy to punish women for their part in what , by definition, has to be a mutual effort.
PIV sex should be regarded by both parties as an act that may result in pregnancy. Both have the responsibility for conception, however, the person with the uterus is the one who has a further choice about continuing the pregnancy.

This extra choice has been used to control, shame, and abuse women for millennia.
 

lovedogs

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AGBF|1463766883|4034064 said:
Laila619|1463754088|4033976 said:
Well their "f*cking" isn't always consequence free, now, is it? There's the tiny little issue of having to stop their fetus' beating heart and then bleed out the products of conception for 1-2 weeks. Let's at least be honest. It's not really consequence free, is it?
First, a "fetus", when first formed, has no heart at all, never mind a beating one. My Catholic mother used to refer to the time now used as a cutoff in Roe v. Wade as a time in pregnancy called "the quickening". She told me that only after the quickening did many women become upset when they miscarried (aborted spontaneously). (I realize, of course, that "people vary", and I would never want to minimize the pain a woman experiences when she loses a pregnancy she cherishes. I cried every time I menstruated when I was trying to conceive.)

Second, "f*cking" appears to be consequence free for men. Men use abortions and pregnancy to punish women for their part in what , by definition, has to be a mutual effort.
THIS! Even if you put aside the ridiculousness of trying to control another person's body and rights to make her own choice, there is the fact that the majority of people trying to ban abortions are men, who will never have any idea what it's like to be in a position of having to choose to end a pregnancy. This is just another way to punish and control women and keep "the patriarchy" alive. Drives me nuts that this is still happening.
 

ksinger

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AGBF|1463747354|4033941 said:
ksinger|1463747016|4033939 said:
I pretty much lack the energy to put down my feelings on this matter. There is only so much screaming at the bottom of a well that I can do - I simply cannot afford to be that churned up anymore. I merely ask you to contemplate how wonderful it is to be a person who is against almost everything her state does, and yet has to deal every day with the fact that there are never EVER enough of us here to turn the direction of the state. Yes, it makes me cranky. I'm certain no other state is more in thrall to particularly brutal expression of religion and a desire to reestablish some mythical form of the 1950s, where the women, peasants, and people who don't look and think like the lily-white overlords, knew their place in the pecking order.
Keep the faith, K. I often feel the same way about being from the United States. Then I get surprised by something wonderful, like The Supreme Court holding that same sex marriage is a Constitutional right and I take heart. Some of us are on the same page that you are.

Deb :wavey:
I'm sure you do Deb, but I'm certain you don't feel it as badly as someone from a state like mine. You at least get a warm fuzzy now and again, but the stupid never ends here. I have all the same shame from the "ugly American" currently on steroids and being displayed to the world, PLUS the additional shame of being the butt of every national joke. I suppose someone has to do it, so the rest of the country can cluck and feel superior to the benighted neanderthals elsewhere, but it does get tiresome providing that service all the time. Our legislature doesn't know how to prioritize anything over ideology and does anything they can to reinforce that ideology, in lieu of providing an adequate tax base for things like schools and roads and taking care of the poor and sick....

Lessee, what have they been working on lately....hmmmm....obviously, the abortion issue. (Which still has to go to Mary Fail'in's desk)

School is expensive, y'all, even though OK teacher pay is 49th in the country. We can't even afford that, even though we VALUE education! No, really! So, here are the latest things they've tried to sneak through:

Allow non-certed teachers - think anyone with a pulse.
No background checks for teachers - someone with a pulse AND a record. We won't look.
Allow districts to opt out of state teachers' retirement
Give teachers a raise by reducing/taking away their healthcare benefit - the Bible in play here, think the Peter and Paul saying.
Attempting to remove 111,000 of the poorest off Medicaid - because that bit about taking care of the poor was a suggestion, not a requirement.
Next election, having state question to revise the state constitution to remove the part where state monies cannot be used to support any religion. (This would allow the much-resisted monument of the 10 Commandments to be displayed on state capital grounds, AND to give preferential treatment to Christianity, which is of course the goal)
Something just in the last week about LGBT issues (courtesy of the lovely Sally Kern. Honestly, I can hardly keep up with the speed that they pump this crap out.) And bleating about states' rights and Obama overreach (think bathrooms)....like yesterday?
Oh, and just last night! The Oklahoma House, that bastion of cool, rational thought, introduced a measure to call on the US House to begin impeachment against Obama!

ANYTHING to avoid raising revenues by old fashioned TAXES, or working on the budget crisis in our state.
 

ksinger

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The anti-abortion foes are all about punishment and consequence. About ramming what is actually a religious belief, down the rest of the world's throat, and then punishing when adherence to that belief doesn't happen. Yes, Trump let slip the truth of the thought process and for once that sort of revelation actually got him in trouble. But true it was and is: in the minds of more than a few (mostly men) women SHOULD be locked up for abortion, like any murderer. That's what you do with murderers, right? (Unless of course it was your sister, or mom, or good friend, because well, that's different. And unless the abortion was at male request, because that's different too.)

And let's be honest (since we're all about being honest today), the idea that one is a person from the moment of conception flows from religion, and a particular religion at that, not EVERY religion. As a religiously inspired proposition that is open for debate (unlike the age of the earth, say) that core belief, no matter how sincerely held, is no more worthy of being enshrined in law than any other unsupported religious belief.

So, on the one hand you have people who have a deeply held RELIGIOUS/PHILOSOPHICAL belief that a fetus - no matter how small - is a PERSON.

On the other, you have people who do NOT hold that belief.

In a matter so tied to BELIEF about when/if a zygote is a person, not about some agreed upon evidence-based bright line of what constitues "human" or "person", the only logical and (wait for it) fair way to address the issues of pregnancy termination, is to leave the decision up the the person (NOT incubator) most intimately concerned.

Oh, and I personally know several of those very religious and very anti-abortion women, who HAD abortions back in the day. They are the equivalents of legislators and ministers who damn gays while being gay themselves. It flows out of fear of ostracism, and self-loathing for not being true to their professed beliefs (so they're now going to sanctimoniously insist that the beliefs they didn't really believe or follow, be applied to EVERYONE else to make up for it), but remains the height of hypocrisy.
 

Gypsy

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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/oklahoma-governor-vetoes-insane-abortion-bill

Governor (crazy) Mary of OK actually did the right thing by vetoing this. I pray to god that her "hopes" of a conservative pro-life justice appointment doesn't happen though.

ksinger. WORD. And I would move. Away. And just let the state implode. Hopefully all the lunatics will concentrate there, happily and leave the rest of us alone. I couldn't stand it. You are stronger than I am. It is an embarrassing time to be an American as it is. I can't imagine being an Oklahoman on top of it. I'd be driven to homicide.
 

hay joe

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I am anti-abortion. The opposite of pro-abortion. On no! that's right "No one is pro-abortion". Ya sure, a million plus a year but no one is for it. Give me a break.... And! I don't want in your womb!

I want no laws protecting it or eliminating it. My gosh! it's almost completely avoidable. Smarten up!

The same parental authorization that applies to the Dentist should apply to the abortionist.

This is a personal, moral issue for adults. The government is not a good place to look to find high morals.

I don't see abortion as "national women's health care" issue. Very few are done to enhance a women's health.

I don't see abortion as a religious issue either.

Let the hate spew.
 

Gypsy

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The government is not the place for morals at all.

Morality is a personal issue. And is individual to each person.

Laws against murder, etc are for the "public good." Because they are not victimless crimes. And I pretty much only believe that the only type of crimes that should be dealt with by the government are ones that have actual victims. I don't think suicide should be a crime. And I don't believe government has any right to regulate any marriages except for requiring informed consent of the adults party to it. And that's only to protect minors.

An abortion has no victim. A fetus is not a human being. It's not even an animal. This is not a moral issue. It's a fact. It cannot live outside its incubator. It has no heart, or LIFE of it's own. It's a parasite. At least until a certain point. AND UNTIL THAT POINT it is a medical issue. Pure and simple. Like removing a tumor.

Making it ANYTHING ELSE is imposing YOUR morality on the rest of us. NO THANK YOU.

If men got pregnant this would not be an issue. You could have a safe effective abortion via a pill you could get from any doctor via a prescription.

Which is the way it should be.

Why isn't it that way? Because the Christian Right doesn't believe in it. And because men want to control women's bodies.

This isn't a Christian Country. And we have freedom OF and FROM religion. And bodily integrity should be an unalienable right.

You don't believe in abortion Joe? You don't get one. Don't sleep with someone who would get one. And make sure you use 2 kinds of birthcontrol (oh, wait, is that against your morality too???) to make sure you protect yourself AND your partner any time you have sex. Or just wait to have sex only when you can afford and want a child and then only have sex for procreation. Those are all YOUR rights. But that's really all that is OR SHOULD BE your right.

You do not get to impose your morality on me.
 

kenny

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36348728

"Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin has vetoed a bill that would make abortion a criminal offence in the US state.
Although she opposes abortion, she said the measure was vague and would not withstand a legal challenge.
"

Governor Fallin must have read my opening post in this thread.
 

JaneSmith

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Ksinger, your turn on Rocinante today ;-) Nice one. You too Gypsy.

Hay joe, I am pro abortion. Anyone who does not want to be pregnant should have access to a safe abortion. No one should be forced to give birth against their will. A baby is not a punishment for sex.
 

hay joe

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Gypsy|1463796282|4034268 said:
The government is not the place for morals at all.

Morality is a personal issue. And is individual to each person.

Laws against murder, etc are for the "public good." Because they are not victimless crimes. And I pretty much only believe that the only type of crimes that should be dealt with by the government are ones that have actual victims. I don't think suicide should be a crime. And I don't believe government has any right to regulate any marriages except for requiring informed consent of the adults party to it. And that's only to protect minors.

An abortion has no victim. A fetus is not a human being. It's not even an animal. This is not a moral issue. It's a fact. It cannot live outside its incubator. It has no heart, or LIFE of it's own. An abortion has no victim. At least until a certain point. AND UNTIL THAT POINT it is a medical issue. Pure and simple. Like removing a tumor.

Making it ANYTHING ELSE is imposing YOUR morality on the rest of us. NO THANK YOU.

If men got pregnant this would not be an issue. You could have a safe effective abortion via a pill you could get from any doctor via a prescription.

Which is the way it should be.

Why isn't it that way? Because the Christian Right doesn't believe in it. And because men want to control women's bodies.

This isn't a Christian Country. And we have freedom OF and FROM religion. And bodily integrity should be an unalienable right.

You don't believe in abortion Joe? You don't get one. Don't sleep with someone who would get one. And make sure you use 2 kinds of birthcontrol (oh, wait, is that against your morality too???) to make sure you protect yourself AND your partner any time you have sex. Or just wait to have sex only when you can afford and want a child and then only have sex for procreation. Those are all YOUR rights. But that's really all that is OR SHOULD BE your right.

You do not get to impose your morality on me.

I want no laws protecting it or eliminating it. My gosh! it's almost completely avoidable. Smarten up!
I don't see abortion as a religious issue either.

You... "I'd be driven to homicide." ...nice
"An abortion has no victim. At least until a certain point." At what point is that?
 

JaneSmith

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How U.S Policy Continues To Threaten Women's Reproductive Rights Globally.

"This week, government officials, advocates, policymakers, corporate leaders, journalists, and others are in Copenhagen for Women Deliver, a major international conference focused on the health, rights, and well-being of women and girls. While women and girls have seen concrete improvements in their health and lives since the Millennium Development Goals were adopted in 2001, the right to a safe abortion remains elusive for too many. An estimated 20 million women and girls undergo an unsafe abortion each year, the overwhelming majority in developing countries. An estimated 47,000 women and girls die every year as a result—more than 800 a day—and thousands more experience grave injuries.

The United States bears significant responsibility for this state of affairs. U.S. laws and funding restrictions—and the very way we talk about abortion—are incredibly damaging globally. The U.S. policy on abortion fails women around the world in three fundamental ways.

First, U.S. policies and rhetoric fail to recognize that safe abortion is an integral component of reproductive health care and that it is a human right. The U.S. government—and many civil society organizations—prefer to stick to “safer” issues like family planning, skirting the fact that abortion is part of the full spectrum of sexual and reproductive health and rights. Even more, U.S. leaders and policymakers are wary of using rights-based language when speaking about abortion because they fear that human rights demand a higher level of action and leadership. They’re right about that. Since a woman’s ability to control her body, her sexuality, and her reproduction is a human right, we should be asking our leaders to uphold it.

Second, U.S. policies fail to recognize that abortion should be available in all circumstances. The infamous Helms Amendment prohibits U.S. foreign aid funding for abortion “as a method of family planning.” Yet the Obama Administration has continued to misinterpret this restriction as a blanket prohibition on funding all abortion overseas—even in cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the woman is in danger. Yet in none of these cases is abortion a form of family planning.

The International Women’s Health Coalition (IWHC) and others have been advocating for the U.S. government to correctly interpret the Helms Amendment—by the letter of the law. This is crucial because the United States is the largest single funder of women’s health programs globally; what it says and does matters. These restrictions have a terrible chilling effect in the field. Yesterday at the Conference, at a panel organized by IWHC, CHANGE, Advocates for Youth, and Pathfinder, panelists and members of the audience recounted examples of the damaging impact of Helms on reproductive health programs—from Kenya to Mozambique.

The problems with the Helms amendment run even deeper than its interpretation. Its wording perpetuates a good girl/bad girl dichotomy, and sends the message that women should only have access to abortion if it isn’t their fault they became pregnant. This is at odds with the reality of women’s lives; there are myriad reasons women seek abortions.

At the panel, U.S.-based abortion provider Dr. Willie Parker called this “the politics of respectability.” He warned the assembled advocates against fitting abortion into respectability boxes, like cases of rape or severe fetal abnormalities. Dr. Parker emphasized that the only justification a woman needs for an abortion is the fact that she is pregnant and doesn’t want to be. Precisely.

Lastly, the United States has failed to recognize that abortion should be legal everywhere and for everyone. U.S. policymakers—and even many international women’s health activists—limit themselves to improving access to abortion “where it is not against the law.” They are often reluctant to call for access to abortion in countries where access is restricted by law. Yet, over two decades ago, 189 countries adopted the landmark Beijing Platform for Action, which called on governments to review laws that penalize women who have undergone illegal abortions. Punitive laws are directly linked to higher rates of unsafe abortion, a major cause of maternal mortality. They increase stigma about abortion, and undermine women’s access to postabortion care, counseling, education, and, in many cases, contraceptive services. Laws prohibiting abortion do not in fact reduce the number of abortions, but make them unsafe.

Meanwhile, many countries have faced these facts and are liberalizing their abortion laws—from Nepal to Uruguay, from Mozambique to Chile. Not only does the United States ignore this important trend, but every year Congress passes the Siljander Amendment to appropriations, to bar the use of any U.S. foreign assistance funds from being used to advocate on abortion. On any other human rights issue, we would not accept national laws as an excuse for violations, but would support domestic activists working to change the situation. Why should abortion be different?

At Women Deliver, activists have highlighted diplomacy as a way the United States can show leadership without running afoul of congressional restrictions on abortion. While the Helms amendment and other legislation limit what the U.S. government can fund, Administration officials can say whatever they want. The U.S. government should use its voice to support, at all levels, abortion rights and access. As an organization active at the United Nations, IWHC has repeatedly seen firsthand how powerful this approach, when utilized, can be.

Over many years, I’ve met countess women who shared horror stories of what they endured because they couldn’t access safe abortion. Without a change in U.S. policy, women around the world—from Nigeria to Haiti—will continue to be denied these critical services. It’s time the United States—the current Administration and the next one—upholds its Beijing commitments and urges other countries to do the same."

- Francoise Girard is the President of the International Women's Health Coalition.
http://iwhc.org/2016/05/u-s-policy-continues-threaten-womens-reproductive-rights-globally/
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
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hay joe|1463800663|4034297 said:
"An abortion has no victim. At least until a certain point." At what point is that?
Viability. When it can exist on its own.

And even then, if the mother's life is in jeopardy she should not be forced to chose her child's life over her own by the law.

Your posts are incoherent. If you are going to argue the point, please post complete thoughts in proper sentences. And without insults.
 
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