A Specific Cushion Cut Question...
- Thread starter corkstone
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Welcome!
Firstly you aren't wasting anyones time, so please don't worry! We can't tell much at all unfortunately about a cushion by the numbers, we need at least detailed pics and also an ASET image if available. Concerning the crown height, there have been posts in the past saying that greater crown height can lead to improved fire/ sparkle, but some of the experts say unfortunately it isn't as straightforward as that, crown height may be good to know, but won't tell the whole story! All you can really do is to see how this diamond looks when you get it, knowing you have the return policy should you need it. Or if you aren't happy with this stone, contact an experienced vendor such as Mark at www.engagementringsdirect.com who has an excellent rep with finding cushions.
Well cut cushions can be less easy to find than rounds it seems to me anyway, but if the IF clarity is so important to you, then maybe you might want to consider VVS or even VS to broaden your options, as there may not be many IF cushions around.
Firstly you aren't wasting anyones time, so please don't worry! We can't tell much at all unfortunately about a cushion by the numbers, we need at least detailed pics and also an ASET image if available. Concerning the crown height, there have been posts in the past saying that greater crown height can lead to improved fire/ sparkle, but some of the experts say unfortunately it isn't as straightforward as that, crown height may be good to know, but won't tell the whole story! All you can really do is to see how this diamond looks when you get it, knowing you have the return policy should you need it. Or if you aren't happy with this stone, contact an experienced vendor such as Mark at www.engagementringsdirect.com who has an excellent rep with finding cushions.
Well cut cushions can be less easy to find than rounds it seems to me anyway, but if the IF clarity is so important to you, then maybe you might want to consider VVS or even VS to broaden your options, as there may not be many IF cushions around.
Thanks for the response. The clarity is important, but I didn''t need to goto IF - this one stone kind of popped up and after weighing out the options, I went for it.
I understand that without all of the needed angles it is hard to cast judgement on a stone, but the only thing that freaked me out was the inability to find a stone anywhere on the internet that shared its general dimensions...I don''t know if that makes it a good rare or a bad rare.
I see the loose diamond in the next week, other than the white paper test, what is a good way to see how brilliant a cushion cut is?
And if anyone else has some insight about the shallowness of the stone then please chime in!
I understand that without all of the needed angles it is hard to cast judgement on a stone, but the only thing that freaked me out was the inability to find a stone anywhere on the internet that shared its general dimensions...I don''t know if that makes it a good rare or a bad rare.
I see the loose diamond in the next week, other than the white paper test, what is a good way to see how brilliant a cushion cut is?
And if anyone else has some insight about the shallowness of the stone then please chime in!
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That is why it is so helpful to shop with an online vendor who has a great rep, who also has in house stones. This way besides them being able to ' talk you through' each diamond, they can send you pics of the stone, and very often the cut analysis has been done for you, so you know what you are buying.
The best thing you can do when viewing this diamond is to ask to take it out away from the store lights etc, and look at it as thoroughly as you can in more real life lighting conditions, so you can see if you like how it will perform when being worn on the finger. A diamond doesn't sparkle all the time, but it should look attractive even when in ' rest mode.' Even with all the dimensions and angles of a cushion being provided, it still doesn't really tell you that much, cushions like many fancy shapes have to be seen to be judged. Also going too strictly by any suggested numbers can mean you could miss out on some potentially gorgeous stones, so please use any numbers as a guide only! The numbers can't tell you about the individual personality, performance or faceting pattern of a cushion. It comes down to trusting your eyes in the end.
I would suggest you check out Mark at ERD in my first post above if this diamond isn't what you want, he is an expert and is known as the go to Cushion Guy for good reason - he has found many PSers stunning cushions. Also if you can, take your time and try to look at some cushions in person to get an idea of the type you like, cushions can look very different to each other and that can't be predicted by the numbers.
Also Jon at www.goodoldgold.com may be able to help you as may www.whiteflash.com
pixley
Brilliant_Rock
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Just for reference, here are a couple of examples of beautiful cushions with depths in the 50s:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-anniversary-ring-is-here.84652/ ginzagirl’s cushion
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-cushion-downgrade.43584/ Lizz’s cushion
Both are cushion brilliants with an antique style facet pattern.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-anniversary-ring-is-here.84652/ ginzagirl’s cushion
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-cushion-downgrade.43584/ Lizz’s cushion
Both are cushion brilliants with an antique style facet pattern.
I think cushions really can''t be judged by the numbers. Goodoldgold put up a neat video comparing 6 cushions with similar numbers that would probably be good to watch.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/video/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/video/
Point well taken.
Unfortunately, I live in a big-small city. About 1 million people, but when it comes to shopping and jewelry we are severely lacking. No diamond district and few jewelers, both big and small, hold a large inventory of diamonds - especially not cushions.
So my only real bet is to rely on the stores to order something that looks good - and then of course I have the power to veto the stone or take it.
That is why I am "relying" on the number so much.
Unfortunately, I live in a big-small city. About 1 million people, but when it comes to shopping and jewelry we are severely lacking. No diamond district and few jewelers, both big and small, hold a large inventory of diamonds - especially not cushions.
So my only real bet is to rely on the stores to order something that looks good - and then of course I have the power to veto the stone or take it.
That is why I am "relying" on the number so much.
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There really aren''t any set numbers which can lead you to a well cut cushion unfortunately, of course if you prefer to go by a certain depth, table and crown height that you think best, then see what comes of it if you feel you are "buying wiser'' that way. I will say this again though - if you find a cushion which doesn''t match up to your preferred proportions, don''t automatically dismiss it, as we have said before, you cannot predict with any real accuracy how a cushion will look by the numbers.
Update!
I saw the diamond today - and actually have a picture (though I''m not sure how to upload it for viewing) and I am impressed. It is absolutely 100% flawless, internally and externally.
Nice proportions, looks massive and is perfectly clear...the only thing I don''t "love" about it is that it has a slight crushed ice look to it. Alot of nice thick chunky lights, but also smaller reflective pieces.
Over all I think I got a great diamond for the price and it will go wonderfully with a Tiffany Legacy-esque sytle ring.
Anyone know how to post pictures so I can get some opinions?!
Thanks!
I saw the diamond today - and actually have a picture (though I''m not sure how to upload it for viewing) and I am impressed. It is absolutely 100% flawless, internally and externally.
Nice proportions, looks massive and is perfectly clear...the only thing I don''t "love" about it is that it has a slight crushed ice look to it. Alot of nice thick chunky lights, but also smaller reflective pieces.
Over all I think I got a great diamond for the price and it will go wonderfully with a Tiffany Legacy-esque sytle ring.
Anyone know how to post pictures so I can get some opinions?!
Thanks!
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Many thanks!
Ok. So here is the picture. The jeweler has it loosely placed in a setting just to give it a relative size...so ignore the hideous hideous setting!
Remember the diamond is a .91 carat so I think it looks pretty damn big, but like I said, alittle more "crushed ice" than I would have liked.
Opinions people (oh, and please don''t lie to me, but positive reinforcement is always nice).
Ok. So here is the picture. The jeweler has it loosely placed in a setting just to give it a relative size...so ignore the hideous hideous setting!
Remember the diamond is a .91 carat so I think it looks pretty damn big, but like I said, alittle more "crushed ice" than I would have liked.
Opinions people (oh, and please don''t lie to me, but positive reinforcement is always nice).
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Hey corkstone!
If she enjoys the crushed ice look she will love this diamond. The depth concerns me a bit and the lighting the pic was taken in may not be accurately showing what you''ll see in more common viewing conditions. Ask for a shot in office lighting against a hand or something like that.
Kind regards,
I appreciate the quick response - especially from someone as knowledgable as you - afterall, I first heard the "crushed ice" term from your educational videos.
In all honesty, I don''t think has any idea that there is a difference between a crushed ice look or a fuller-chucky look.
The picture is not the greatest, you are right. However, I must follow this up by saying that I have seen/held the diamond, both outside and in the store lighting. And I was concerned about the dimensions myself, but looking at the stone under the microscope and in various conditions, it looked brilliant.
May I ask why, as a jeweler, you would be concerned about the depth?
For the record...it costs just under $5000 CAD.
In all honesty, I don''t think has any idea that there is a difference between a crushed ice look or a fuller-chucky look.
The picture is not the greatest, you are right. However, I must follow this up by saying that I have seen/held the diamond, both outside and in the store lighting. And I was concerned about the dimensions myself, but looking at the stone under the microscope and in various conditions, it looked brilliant.
May I ask why, as a jeweler, you would be concerned about the depth?
For the record...it costs just under $5000 CAD.
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Hi cork,
Generally when I see depths this shallow in cushions, most of the time the slightest tilt/rock reveals a large patch of deadness under the table that I''m personally not crazy about which can also show up watery/crushed in the face up view You can see it in quite a few of the vids I''ve captured too in both diffuse and also spot lighting as well. When it comes to these shapes I always encourage people to see and compare so they are making the most educated decision possible, even if they dont'' have all the tecky data like ASET, IS, etc. I realize this is not always practical because gaining access to a variety of the various appearances isn''t the easiest thing to acquire and is costly in and of itself.
One of the big bennies to diamonds of this depth is the spread factor so you do have that in your corner.
Bottom line ... her *eyes* must be pleased. If you''ve seen this *you* are happy and also *she* is happy ... mission accomplished.
Keep us posted and glad to know we have been of some help in your education.
I certainly hope not! Thought I must say that I did not see that undershading when I was looking at the diamond in person - so perhaps it could be the terrible setting that they have holding it?
Rhino - thanks for your help. That was my concern too, a shallow/watery look. But this one doesn''t seem "too" bad. I don''t know if I am just settling, or maybe I have to make do with what I have. I am in Ottawa, Canada, and our diamond selection is weak. Nowhere in the city am I able to goto a store and see a selection of diamonds side by side...so I am at the mercy of the dealer to hopefully find me diamonds that meet my parameters and price range.
pixley
Brilliant_Rock
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Hi corkstone,
Numbers aside, did the stone say, "I'm the one!" to you when you saw it? I think it has a pleasant shape and colour, and it is IF, so you won't have to worry about inclusions. If you liked it in person, then that's a great sign. It is sooo hard to capture good photographs of these types of cushions - Jon's photos are about the best I've ever seen of the crushed ice type cuts.
FWIW, my stone also had a girdle reflection under the table when the photo was emailed to me and I was very worried about it having a fish-eye (the stone was at an angle when it was photographed). In person, they only appeared at certain angles and now I never see them at all, but that might be something you want to check on your stone. I would do as Jon recommended and check to see that it doesn't have "dead" areas. Try it on in the holder and walk around in different areas of the store and even outside if they'll let you. One jeweler rested the stone in a setting for me to let me see what it would look like set, which was great. Hopefully, after seeing it in different habitats, you'll be able to tell whether this is your stone.
Numbers aside, did the stone say, "I'm the one!" to you when you saw it? I think it has a pleasant shape and colour, and it is IF, so you won't have to worry about inclusions. If you liked it in person, then that's a great sign. It is sooo hard to capture good photographs of these types of cushions - Jon's photos are about the best I've ever seen of the crushed ice type cuts.
FWIW, my stone also had a girdle reflection under the table when the photo was emailed to me and I was very worried about it having a fish-eye (the stone was at an angle when it was photographed). In person, they only appeared at certain angles and now I never see them at all, but that might be something you want to check on your stone. I would do as Jon recommended and check to see that it doesn't have "dead" areas. Try it on in the holder and walk around in different areas of the store and even outside if they'll let you. One jeweler rested the stone in a setting for me to let me see what it would look like set, which was great. Hopefully, after seeing it in different habitats, you'll be able to tell whether this is your stone.
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Actually the photo does a good job of blending the reflection of the girdle under the table but yes, it is a good example of a fish eye. A careful look (good observation btw) does reveal a pretty notable reflection of the girdle under the table. It plainly appears to be a bruted girdle too.
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Hey cork. Yea it does seem like it. BTW you are not at anyones mercy unless you choose to be at their mercy. You are the one holding the key to making the decision one way or the other. One of the empowering features of this website and others that are geared towards education is to arm you so that you are at noones mercy. You are the client and you are the one who calls the shots. I''m not suggesting you abandon your local dealer but in Canada I''m sure you''re paying a bit of a premium from a local B&M. Don''t settle. You''re in the drivers seat and whether you are spending $1000 or $50,000 it is a purchase decision that will endure and and that you will live with and reflect upon all the years of your life. My suggestion is if you do decide to pull the trigger on this one is that you at least owe it to yourself to view it alongside *one* other one of comparable value but try at least seeing something radically different in the #''s. Ie. ... reverse the table/depth % for starters. Request to see one with a depth in the mid 60''s with a table in the mid 50''s. Quite honestly that''s not conclusive and it may appear very similar but you''d stand a better chance of seeing something *different* that your eyes may enjoy more notably. View some videos I''ve done and familiarize yourself with the different appearances of cushion and *ask* for the one that appeals most to your eyes. Perhaps your local can find you one.
Kind regards,
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No prob Julie.
Good advice pixley. cork, now that you see what we''re talking about take a 2nd look. To most that girdle reflection under the table is a no no. If after viewing it in diffuse lighting or natural ambient daylight and it still doesn''t bother you, then that would be a good sign.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Good advice pixley. cork, now that you see what we''re talking about take a 2nd look. To most that girdle reflection under the table is a no no. If after viewing it in diffuse lighting or natural ambient daylight and it still doesn''t bother you, then that would be a good sign.
pixley
Brilliant_Rock
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cork -
Speaking as someone who also did a cushion search from Canada - I will say it's a cushion dead zone up here. Birks has the closest thing to a decent cushion, but not all of them are well cut, and you are already set on a Legacy style setting. I ended up having mine sourced from New York and you may want to consider expanding your search to a trusted PS vendor for the sake of budget and quality. Jon has access to great cushions and would have the experience to steer you away from one with a fish-eye. I would really consider working with Jon if you aren't able to take a trip to New York. His videos are fantastic and allow you to get a sense of the stone's performance if you can't do so in person. Besides the B&M premium, you are also paying a premium for IF clarity with this stone. I'm pretty certain that you could find a stone with a superior cut and equal spread (which sounds like something that's important to you) if you went down on the clarity and considered someplace like GOG or ERD. I tend to prefer GOG for long distance transactions since ERD doesn't do high def videos and their photography skills are not so fabulous. If you can take a trip to NY, then either vendor would be great.
Speaking as someone who also did a cushion search from Canada - I will say it's a cushion dead zone up here. Birks has the closest thing to a decent cushion, but not all of them are well cut, and you are already set on a Legacy style setting. I ended up having mine sourced from New York and you may want to consider expanding your search to a trusted PS vendor for the sake of budget and quality. Jon has access to great cushions and would have the experience to steer you away from one with a fish-eye. I would really consider working with Jon if you aren't able to take a trip to New York. His videos are fantastic and allow you to get a sense of the stone's performance if you can't do so in person. Besides the B&M premium, you are also paying a premium for IF clarity with this stone. I'm pretty certain that you could find a stone with a superior cut and equal spread (which sounds like something that's important to you) if you went down on the clarity and considered someplace like GOG or ERD. I tend to prefer GOG for long distance transactions since ERD doesn't do high def videos and their photography skills are not so fabulous. If you can take a trip to NY, then either vendor would be great.
Thanks Jon. I can actually see it now, but to the plain eye I didn''t see it in the store. It WILL bug me now...
What is a "bruted" girdle, by the way? That is a term I have never heard before.
My problem is two-fold...
1) There are no diamond dealers/suppliers here in Ottawa - so really it''s pick without seeing.
2) None of the jewelers that I have contacted (5 in total) will create a setting with a diamond purchased elsewhere - one said they would, but would not insure the diamond during the setting process.
This somewhat leaves me at the mercy of the jeweler - and yes, I know I am paying a premuim for buying the diamond and setting at a local place.
My e-mail to the jeweler...
Thanks"
Do I make my case convincingly enough?!
"Unfortunately, after alot of research and opinions I must admit that I am not pleased with the stone that we have selected. I''m not sure what action we can take together - but in our mutual policy of being honest, I thought I HAD to tell you. I think you could tell that I was somewhat cautious on Tuesday.
My concerns are as follows:
The spread diamond, in principal is a great idea, but in practice has some major undesirable qualities. Firstly, it creates large pockets of "dead area", where there is little flash or brilliance. I noticed this when we met though it didn''t register until I reviewed the picture. Secondly, the diamond has what is called a "fish eye" - where the girdle causes a black circular reflection which is more visible because of the extra large table.
Obviously you and I don''t have the benefit of having multiple diamonds laid out to compare against, but I must admit that our diamond seems to have one of the lesser desired qualities - the "crushed ice/watery" look. This creates tiny flashes of reflection, but has very little symmetry and few big chunks of light.
Though cut is hard to measure with a cushion, the spread style means that a there are less compact angles for light to bounce off of - my gut feeling was, and still is, that we picked a stone with too shallow of a depth - and that an ideal cut would have the table/depth numbers reversed.
This is absolutely 100% in no way your fault - you are a tremendous asset and obviously ordering diamonds sight unseen means that we are both relying on the numbers. But I must admit, I don''t love this diamond.
What can we do here?
Thanks"
Do I make my case convincingly enough?!
Rhino. Considering my inability to view multiple stones at one time, what is my best bet to obtaining a diamond with those chunky qualities?
Also, do you think I should be able to get a diamond between .90-.99 with those nice qualities at a price under 5000?
Also, do you think I should be able to get a diamond between .90-.99 with those nice qualities at a price under 5000?
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I did a search on the GOG site and didn''t pull anything up there BUT that means nothing considering Jonathan can get you the most beautiful diamond you have ever seen, and you don''t even have to see it for yourself first! The thing that I loved about Jonathan the most is probably the fact that he wasn''t trying to sell me a diamond, he was doing everything in his power to find me THE diamodn that I would love. I only saw it in vidoes, oh that''s anotehr GREAT thing! If you can''t decide between 2 cushions that you like from GOG jonathan will make a video comparing them in different lighting, etc. he''s wonderful! I found this cushion on the site ( a little over your budget, but the good news is that you can def. get something in the H SI1 VS2 range in a carat for 5 grand) Here is one that is a little over budget but gives you an idea!
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond.php?d=3683&shape=2048&ctMin=.8&ctMax=1.3&clarity=224&color=56&resultsColumns=268435471&singleResult=1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond.php?d=3683&shape=2048&ctMin=.8&ctMax=1.3&clarity=224&color=56&resultsColumns=268435471&singleResult=1
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