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A lil'' H & A confusion...

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canadiangrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
787
Hi everyone,

I have a couple of questions about Hearts & Arrows diamonds.

I contacted a vendor recently concerning a stone that had piqued our interest. It was an AGS Class 3 stone, but the vendor told me it was an H & A - that it was a Class 3 because of the extremely thin girdle. I thought stones had to be AGS0''s to be H & A...is this possible?? Interestingly, the AGS certificate made no mention of "AGSL H & A", which is what I''ve seen when viewing other AGS H & A certs.

Secondly...if I find an ideal cut stone that comes up roses on the HCA, but it''s not a H & A stone, is it any less visually beautiful/dispersive/fiery than the one that is Hearts & Arrows? What is the intrinsic value of a H & A stone? Does it add more beauty, fire, etc., versus a non H & A stone that is cut to ideal specs?

Hope that''s as clear as mud.
Any and all replies welcome!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272

----------------
On 7/10/2003 11:27:54 PM canadiangrrl wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have a couple of questions about Hearts & Arrows diamonds.

I contacted a vendor recently concerning a stone that had piqued our interest. It was an AGS Class 3 stone, but the vendor told me it was an H & A - that it was a Class 3 because of the extremely thin girdle. I thought stones had to be AGS0's to be H & A...is this possible??

Yes it is possible but I've learned to be very skeptical when people are claiming their diamonds are H&A. We call in and inspect many stones and the vendors claim the diamonds are H&A and simply are NOT. If photographic evidence is not presented do not assume the stone is an H&A. If you are to "show them the money" let them first present the "evidence". H&A or not do you really want to purchase a diamond with an extremely thin girdle? What happens when that girdle chips or breaks ... recutting time and no more H&A possibly.

Interestingly, the AGS certificate made no mention of "AGSL H & A", which is what I've seen when viewing other AGS H & A certs.

It doesn't necessarily have to be inscribed "AGSL H&A" in order for it to be a real true H&A. We inspect (and purchase) many diamonds that are not laser inscribed at all and are some of the finest, most precision cut H&A's in the world exhibiting the most intense light return possible within the H&A's. Also ... just because a diamond is inscribed doesn't mean it's a true H&A too. I've inspected quite a number of inscribed stones that are "almost" H&A's but would miss the mark.

Secondly...if I find an ideal cut stone that comes up roses on the HCA, but it's not a H & A stone, is it any less visually beautiful/dispersive/fiery than the one that is Hearts & Arrows?

Yes. Particularly in the face up position. The facets that compose the "arrows" are the 8 pavilion mains on the bottom of the stone are are responsible for the most intense fire you'll ever observe in a diamond. While H&A's can vary in their light return ONE aspect that they all share (even some of the not so good ones) is EXTREME fire which is bounced off of the "arrows". Bold arrows will always equal intense fire at least. Scintillation is another story however.
If you peruse our website and view the optical results of the H&A's particularly under the BrillianceScope analysis you'll observe in the 5 primary light conditions, the most intense fire coming off of the pavilion mains. Browse our site and you'll see what I'm talking about.

What is the intrinsic value of a H & A stone? Does it add more beauty, fire, etc., versus a non H & A stone that is cut to ideal specs?

ABSOLUTELY. We demonstrate this to our clients each day. This is not to mention the beautiful difference you'll see in diffuse light conditions. You'll be able to observe the symmetry in H&A diamonds WITH YOUR OWN EYES and this is something you will not get in any other kind of stone including a standard ideal cut.

Hope that's as clear as mud.
Any and all replies welcome!

Hope that was as clear as mud as well.
If you'd like to see graphics demonstrating these points above view our Hearts & Arrows page where I've captured pictures under various light conditions showing these features I'm talking about. Click on the link at the bottom... go to 4C's Main Menu, go to "CUT" then click on Hearts & Arrows and the graphics are toward the bottom of that page.


Peace,
Rhino
 

canadiangrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
787
Jonathan, you rule. Perfect internal symmetry = dazzling fire. I get it now.
I am the Canuck chick with the 'Merican BF who emailed you today - thanks again for all of your amazing info.

As a sidenote, I've just noticed my avatar. When I chose it the other day, I picked the cat and clicked on it. Somehow that translates into me looking like Sammy Davis Jr. with a bad shag. Ring-a-ding-ding.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
LOL!!! Let me make one correction to your statement (not trying to be an a-hole)...

Perfect internal symmetry with the proper proportions = dazzling fire.

Tweak the minor facets correctly and you can make it a real sizzler too concerning scintillation.


Let me also add ... to those stones that "almost" get the H&A grade ... these can be very difficult to detect the difference provided the rest of the stone is cut right. Like if a diamond has one heart that's a tad smaller than the rest this is something that is not discernable in the face up position. Happy to be of service.


Peace,
Rhino

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On 7/10/2003 11:52:22 PM canadiangrrl wrote:
Jonathan, you rule. Perfect internal symmetry = dazzling fire. I get it now.
I am the Canuck chick with the 'Merican BF who emailed you today - thanks again for all of your amazing info.

As a sidenote, I've just noticed my avatar. When I chose it the other day, I picked the cat and clicked on it. Somehow that translates into me looking like Sammy Davis Jr. with a bad shag. Ring-a-ding-ding.
----------------
 

canadiangrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
787
I guess because we are on a tight budget, I am trying to maximize what I can get, without sacrificing cut, colour, carat weight, and clarity - in that order. Meaning - if one of the hearts is a lil smaller than the rest, but the rock still shoots laser beams - I'm cool! I know that would bother some - but I just want a ring that is FIERY. And if that means an I colour H & A, then so be it - I have seen a GIA certed I H&A in person, and I could not distinguish it from a G, side by side (they were both mounted in platinum.) I am not sure what you mean about tweaking the facets, but I'll take your word for it.
I like the effect of scintillation, but it's not nearly as critical to me as fire.

Must stop drinking Diet Coke before bed.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
LOL... you got to bed now girl! And yes ... H-J color in super ideals blow away the poopoo. I have a 1.22ct K color here that is an incredibly amazing stone and is more beautiful than many D-J colors on the market because of it's cut quality alone! I might even mount it up in a ring for myself! Unless Stephan buys it of course.


Nite nite,

Rhino
 

Yupi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
74
Rhino,

Know any certificate that comes with pictures of H&A ?
 
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