A gay friend may be turning straight

[kenny]

I have a gay friend in his 40s.
Recently he has been talking about dating women.

I have mixed feelings about this.
I certainly respect everyone's right to be who they are, and have no dog in the race as to which group he is in.

I know of lots of people who lived the straight life but came out of the closet later in life as gay.
This is understandable as society accepts straights more than gays, so there is a strong motivation to appear straight.
This is the first person I have encountered who lived his whole life gay and now may be identifying as straight.

I also think about the women he'd date.
Would he tell them?
Do they have a right to know he "was gay"?
Might he switch back some day?
It just brings up so many issues.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Maisie]

I wonder if he is getting broody? Has he ever talked about having children?

 

[dragonfly411]

I wouldn''t consider him straight necessarily. To me that person would qualify as bi sexual. I imagine the attraction would still be there for men, in some way, even if he didn''t admit to it.

I feel that way about people who go "gay" later in life as well, to me they are still bisexual unless they can honestly say they have ALWAYS found their own sex attractive and did things according to standards.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

I think if this is what he feels is right for himself at this point in his life then he should go for it. People deserve to be happy regardless of their sexual preference or lifestyle and what''s expected by society.

 

[decodelighted]

Interesting. I know a woman who married a man, had kids, divorced, then lived life as a lesbian for 30+ years and has recently been talking about dating men again. Curious, right? I really think some people''s sexuality is more fluid. And sometimes it has to do with the *person* they are attracted to & not the person''s sex. Dunno. To each, his own.

 

[Clairitek]

My uncle went from married life to being in a relationship with a man after 25 years of marriage (and 3 kids) and is much happier now. I say just do what makes you happy and deal with the road bumps as they come along.

 

[princesss]

Date: 3/4/2010 4:42:53 PM
Author: decodelighted
Interesting. I know a woman who married a man, had kids, divorced, then lived life as a lesbian for 30+ years and has recently been talking about dating men again. Curious, right? I really think some people''s sexuality is more fluid. And sometimes it has to do with the *person* they are attracted to & not the person''s sex. Dunno. To each, his own.

ITA with the bolded part.

 

[kenny]

Generalizing gets us into trouble but here goes.

It has been my experience that men almost always define their orientation by what they are sexually attracted to.

Women are much less likely to do this and are more comfortable with ambiguity and switching back and forth.

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Date: 3/4/2010 4:48:27 PM
Author: kenny
Generalizing gets us into trouble but here goes.


It has been my experience that men almost always define their orientation by what they are sexually attracted to.


Women are much less likely to do this and are more comfortable with ambiguity and switching back and forth.

But is this discomfort with ambiguity because of expectations placed on them by society?

 

[yssie]

+1.


Since he's already had the experience of going against societal norms, I'd guess he's comfortable enough in his own skin to do what feels right for him, now, so I don't think anyone needs to be worrying that he's making a choice to "fit in", if that was a concern

I'm sure if he finds the right woman his relationship history will come up, but until he chooses to divulge it I don't see that it's anyone else's business


Kenny - you're sweet to be concerned

 

[Lilac]

Date: 3/4/2010 4:42:53 PM
Author: decodelighted
Interesting. I know a woman who married a man, had kids, divorced, then lived life as a lesbian for 30+ years and has recently been talking about dating men again. Curious, right? I really think some people's sexuality is more fluid. And sometimes it has to do with the *person* they are attracted to & not the person's sex. Dunno. To each, his own.

I definitely agree with this statement that sometimes people are attracted to the person rather than the sex, but I would assume this would only be the case if they were bisexual (rather than strictly heterosexual or homosexual). If one is sometimes attracted to men and sometimes attracted to women I don't see how they can say they are *either* straight or gay.

It sounds like your friend is bisexual (which is totally his choice - to each their own).

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 3/4/2010 4:55:00 PM
Author: yssie
+1.



Since he''s already had the experience of going against societal norms, I''d guess he''s comfortable enough in his own skin to do what feels right for him, now, so I don''t think anyone needs to be worrying that he''s making a choice to ''fit in'', if that was a concern

I''m sure if he finds the right woman his relationship history will come up, but until he chooses to divulge it I don''t see that it''s anyone else''s business



Kenny - you''re sweet to be concerned

Ditto.

For what it''s worth, a floormate from freshman year of college was a lesbian, and then became straight and met a guy a couple years later. Now they''re married. They seem very happy. I wouldn''t have predicted that my floormate would end up married to a guy 4 years later (back during freshman year) but it worked out well for her. I hope things work out well for your friend Kenny, and ditto what Yssie said - it''s very sweet that you''re concerned for him!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/4/2010 4:19:10 PM
Author:kenny
I have a gay friend in his 40s.
Recently he has been talking about dating women.

I have mixed feelings about this.
I certainly respect everyone''s right to be who they are, and have no dog in the race as to which group he is in.

I know of lots of people who lived the straight life but came out of the closet later in life as gay.
This is understandable as society accepts straights more than gays, so there is a strong motivation to appear straight.
This is the first person I have encountered who lived his whole life gay and now may be identifying as straight.

I also think about the women he''d date.
Would he tell them?
Do they have a right to know he ''was gay''?
Might he switch back some day?
It just brings up so many issues.

What are your thoughts?

I know many that came out of their straight life to be who they truly are and that''s gay.

My brother wasn''t in that camp, he was gay pretty much from day one. I think you all know I lost him to aids.

One of my bestest friends was married, had 3 kids, and came out late in life, and he had a 30 year relationship with his partner before his partner died. His partner took my brother''s place once my brother died.

I don''t know what this guy is thinking. Maybe he''s thinking, it will be easier to be straight??

WHICH isn''t true, being untrue to yourself is harder, and the more conflicted and confused and depressed you will become.

My thought is, he''s having a hard time. He''s looking for an easy out. But what he''s doing isn''t good for his psyche, nor will it help his situation.

If you are really good friends with him, you should say something...

If he''s going to throw him self into dating women, the women need to know he lived life for many many years as a gay man.

If the woman wants to date him fine, but she needs the 411 on his sexual past.

I am a firm believer in getting tested for HIV and AIDS., No matter who you are sleeping with...

You sleep with everyone that person slept with...

I can''t tell you how many young adults I know that are struggling with this. They want to come out, everyone knows they are gay, but yet they are too afraid.

People say it''s easier today, and I say yes it is. But it''s still a very hard thing ...

 

[purrfectpear]

Your friend lost the opportunity to identify as "straight" several years back. Bi or Bi-curious maybe

FWIW, having sex is not the only factor in identity IMO. As an example, I could easily be gay "from the waist up"

I could have a girl crush and happily live with one for years if I wasn''t expected to participate beyond kissing.

 

[kenny]

Thanks Kal.
I am so sorry about your loss.

I have discussed the sober subject of HIV/AIDS with my friend and he has assured me he stays safe.

There really is a strong tendency to think he's really gay and should just accept it, and see this straight thing as responding to social pressure.
I'm fighting that tendency and trying to respect whoever/whatever he is.

 

[Arcadian]

Kenny, this is something you have to let him figure out for himself. Maybe he found himself attracted to women and decided why not try it? I have a bisexual friend whom I''ve known for 15 years. He''s the type that is attracted to whomever at the time, its not about what sex they are for him.


Sexuality for some is fluid, and its not based on the sex of the person their with. And I do agree that more women think more this way than men...but I think the guys are starting to catch up.

-A

 

[Haven]

It''s sweet of you to be concerned for your friend.

I''m of the "sexuality is fluid" persuasion. I totally had a crush on Kristy McNichol when I was younger, and have had them on other women since. Yet, I''m happily married to a man today.

I understand men may tend to view things differently, but if this makes your friend happy, more power to him.

 

[packrat]

A friend of mine and my brothers from school recently resurfaced after years of no contact. He and my brother talked, and our friend said a lot of the same things-that he is now thinking he is straight, even tho he''s been with his partner for umpteen years. He did date girls in school, and there was gossip about his sexuality, but we didn''t care. When my brother was telling me all this, he said he felt like our friend was having personal problems with himself, his company and his partner and then after I contacted him initially (thru myspace of all places!) it was like talking with all of us, our group, brought up "old times" and that made him start to question things. Also, that he wondered if you know..he''s w/women at first, and nothing is working out, so he decides to date men, and then he has a falling out w/his partner, so decides men aren''t for him and women must be. Like having a sexual orientation affair, if that makes sense. One sex doesn''t treat him right, so he chooses the other.

I would think if your friend decided to date women now, he should tell them that in the past he dated men. Not tho, if he''s taking them out for a sno cone or something, no he doesn''t have to do a tell all, but if he''s going to become serious and intimate with someone, he should.

 

[somethingshiny]

I''ve never personally seen a person "turn straight." Obviously it''s more common the other way around. My two initial thoughts are:

Does he want to start a family? Perhaps he sees having a "mother" rather than a "partner" as a better fit for the family he wants. Perhaps he doesn''t think he''d be successful in adoption with a partner.

Is he becoming more attracted to women on a social or emotional level rather than men? Physical attractiveness only lasts so long, maybe he sees a woman as a life partner more than a man.


Maybe he just really wants a threesome and is scoping out women who could join him and whomever.


If he''s lived this long being gay, I''m sure that he has contemplated MANY things in "going straight."

Do the women have a "right to know he was gay." IMO, yes. But, I also think that a mate should be completely forthcoming with the number of partners, the safety involved, testing, etc for any relationship. For me, this is first date stuff because it could be a deal breaker right off the bat (gay or straight). I also think a woman has the right to know so that she has the option of becoming sexually involved for her own personal reasons. And, last but not least, I think the woman needs to know and be assured that he is straight (if that''s important to her). It would be awful for a woman prone to jealousy to live with the thought of "another woman" AND "another man."

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I''m of the Kinsey school of thought when it comes to sexuality (the movie "Kinsey" was interesting too fyi). I think the majority of people are neither 100% gay or straight, but probably some mix, and that mix can probably change as you go through life. I know personally, my preferences shifted from girls to guys as I got older. I''m currently married to a lovely man, but I would self identify as bisexual. Haha, I''ve argued with friends about whether words like bisexual/homosexual apply to your past sex history, your present sexual activity, or just your current sexual attractions. I think it''s a definition people make for themselves depending on what feels right, so when my friend says she''s a lesbian but is just happening to be dating a guy, I have no arguments.

And I''ve known people who have gone from one end of the spectrum and back again, though granted these people are in their 20s and probably still trying to figure themselves out.

I would just wait and see how his dating women thing goes, and if it makes him happy, then good for him

 

[megumic]

Do some research on Pat Califia - sexuality can in fact be very fluid as Haven mentions.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Well, first I acknowledge that other than a handful of friends and another handful of relatives (gay) - I am not really in-the-know about what makes sexuality tick, but I have some theories... bare with me, disagree, but don't hate on me - I'm not a homophobe! lol

... I think that at least in part it is phermonal. I can look at a woman's body and find it attractive but the smell I find repulsive. Not the perfume, new clothes, who does your hair smell - you know the smell I am talking about. I find the smell of a man attractive. I imagine that a gay man can find a woman's body attractive but find no attraction whatsoever about getting up close and personal.

... I think that the vast majority of men are gay because of what I said above, but that women are sometimes gay for that reason and sometimes because they have come to hate or distrust men so vehemently and are not opposed to women. probably still more because of natural attraction to same sex rather than feeling repelled by the opposite sex, but not always.

... I think that with all of the possibilities out there genetically - (I love bringing up gender mosaics to homophobes) I think it is possible for someone who was always attracted to one sex to have their own hormonal change that makes them attracted to the other. I don't know that sexuality is as definitive as gay or straight 100% of the time. Sometimes it is, but it doesn't have to be. Some people float between the sexes with ease - I think they have the best of both worlds. I am so straight it's not funny. No attraction toward women at all. But I had a close friend who was a lesbian years ago who once a year hooked up for a one night stand with a man. She didn't like men, but she said every once in a while she needed a real c**k.

I think love and sex comes in all forms both naturally and unnaturally and the key to ANY relationship is honesty.

What was the question again? lol

ETA- do you think it could be some sort of male biological clock thing? Like an irrational hormonal desire to impregnate someone? I know I had an irrational hormonal desire to BECOME impregnated (that desire is long gone lol), do you know if he has ever wanted children?

 

[kenny]

Date: 3/4/2010 8:56:09 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

... I think that at least in part it is phermonal. I can look at a woman's body and find it attractive but the smell I find repulsive. Not the perfume, new clothes, who does your hair smell - you know the smell I am talking about. I find the smell of a man attractive. I imagine that a gay man can find a woman's body attractive but find no attraction whatsoever about getting up close and personal.


... I think that the vast majority of men are gay because of what I said above, but that women are sometimes gay for that reason and sometimes because they have come to hate or distrust men so vehemently and are not opposed to women. probably still more because of natural attraction to same sex rather than feeling repelled by the opposite sex, but not always.

Speaking for myself I'm quiet certain that the scent of a woman did not make me gay.
In fact I have never experienced what I believe you are refering to.
I must have discussed, "Why are we gay?" with a zillion gay men and not a single one has ever cited a woman's scent.

Of course I can appreciate the beauty of a woman, much as I can appreciate the beauty of a sunset, but neither of those cause that special response.

I do concur that some women are with women as a result of negative experiences with men.
I've met several lesbians who have conveyed this very story.
I believe men and women are quite different when it comes to this subject of "why we are gay".
AFAIK I was born this way.
I have memories from when I was a very small child that now I understand indicated my orientation.

 

[trillionaire]

I guess I can understand you being curious as to what brought on the change, and certainly I could understand being concerned that he is being sexually responsible (for himself and others), but beyond that, I''m not sure if it''s that big of a deal. Sexuality is fluid, and so is life. Is your concern that this change might be a symptom of a larger problem going on with your friend? Because otherwise, I believe strongly that your bedroom is your business...

 

[Cehrabehra]

I was just thinking about this in the shower, Kenny, and I think that this guy is really brave to say something like this. It takes a lot of guts to come out of the closet in our society... and to have lived as a gay man and been embraced by the gay community for all of these years and realize you''re not 100% sure and admit that... it''s a risk. Yes, there is more support in our world to be a straight man, but HIS community is his support and I don''t know how many will support this. Maybe he just needs to butter his bread on the other side to realize he doesn''t like it - maybe he''s going through a real physiological change - who knows? But friends who are supportive are such good things when someone comes out... they can only be just as important now when you wonder what might be in the next room.

 

[kenny]

If his orientation is changing that's none of my business.
He owes nobody any explanation.
I am determined to express no opinion to him on the matter.
I am not prying.
He is the one discussing the subject.
I only want to understand and be supportive as a friend.
This is the first time in my life I've encountered this.

He has not expressed a desire for children.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/4/2010 9:13:23 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 3/4/2010 8:56:09 PM

Author: Cehrabehra


... I think that at least in part it is phermonal. I can look at a woman''s body and find it attractive but the smell I find repulsive. Not the perfume, new clothes, who does your hair smell - you know the smell I am talking about. I find the smell of a man attractive. I imagine that a gay man can find a woman''s body attractive but find no attraction whatsoever about getting up close and personal.



... I think that the vast majority of men are gay because of what I said above, but that women are sometimes gay for that reason and sometimes because they have come to hate or distrust men so vehemently and are not opposed to women. probably still more because of natural attraction to same sex rather than feeling repelled by the opposite sex, but not always.

Speaking for myself I''m quiet certain that the scent of a woman did not make me gay.

In fact I have never experienced what I believe you are refering to.


Of course I can appreciate the beauty of a woman, much as I can appreciate the beauty of a sunset, but neither of those cause that special response.


I do concur that some women are with women as a result of negative experiences with men.

I''ve met several lesbians who have conveyed this very story.

I believe men and women are quite different when it comes to this subject of ''why we are gay''.

AFAIK I was born this way.

I have memories from when I was a very small child that now I understand indicated my orientation.

LMAO - oh Kenny, if what you got from me is that the smell of a woman made you gay then I did a really lousy job of explaining myself. (or are you twisting my words?

) I want to assume you know what phermones are - right? It''s not "the scent of a woman" it''s a hormonal thing and I absolutely agree that you were probably "born this way".

I didn''t talk before of visuals and I know men are VERY visual people and honestly the sight of a nice set of pecs attracted me from a very young age so you won''t get any argument from me there!

Honestly I''m not trying to go against anything you''re saying - trying to expand upon it. Unfortnately I have to leave for a few hours so in the mean time try only to twist the things I say into wonderfully beautiful eloquent things that make lots of sense and cause your head to bob in agreement haha

 

[Cehrabehra]

one last thing - just in case my use of twist is twisted... know that I am attempting humor - silly comment I know but just in case didn''t want that to hang for hours - I know you''re sitting at the edge of your chair for what I have to say I can''t stop being sarcastic - I''m going now lol

 

[kenny]

This is a subject where we''ll find a lot of opinions.
I can only report my opinion and I think it is fine when opinions vary.
No problem.

 

[Kaleigh]

You''re a great friend Kenny.

Look, if this is what is going to make him happy.. that''s great.

People are a work in progress. You never know what they will do.

But having a good friend like you, is a wonderful thing.

Perhaps if this fails, he will feel comfortable in talking about it with you.

Maybe he won''t.

But the whole thing is very interesting, and am glad you brought it up.

I know many don''t want to discuss this sort of thing.

That''s how I grew up and it made it all the more difficult.

Ugghhhhh