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A different parenting view...

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curlygirl

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I''m going to copy and paste this because it''s from a board that you have to become a member of in order to read. I found it very interesting and fascinating to read about how different things are done around the world. I know we all have different parenting styles but this just puts things in perspective when you think you''re "doing it wrong". There really isn''t just one way to raise your children. Not looking to debate anything, just posting something that I thought was interesting.


We live in Indonesia now, after many years living in the US. Anyway, parenting style here is so very different from in the US. I don''t know if its exactly AP. Here are some examples. People don''t do CIO ever (it''s not a choice. People just don''t do it and dont know of it!). People loooooove formula. People spank. Nannies (live-in at that) are ubiquitous (ummm, I have one). Co-sleeping is rampant, but lots of the children sleep with the nannies. People babywear all the time, but with sucky carriers.
Lots of people practice EC to an extent. Solids start at a very very early age, and lots of kids at at 1.5-2 are still eating porridge type babyfood.

So overall, I think the belief is that babies are babies, and they need that constant companionship. ....but parents are not the sole caretakers.


Anyway, I was reading on a local forum. And 1 post made me smile. A mom of af a 2.5 year old girl is worried because she''s only drinking 400ml of formula a day. AND she''s worried because the girl is NOT waking up at night till 4.30 for more milk. So she asked the forum whether she should wake up her daughter more often to drink more milk. The answers range from don''t bother (and count your lucky stars) to a mother with a 3 year old who''s still giving her son milk at 8pm bedtime, 1am, and 4am!


I just find the whole thing hillarious.... .it is totally the opposite of what people would be asking on an online forum in the US.


This is quite common. I ask my nanny, and the common assumption here is that babies/toddlers wake up numerous times at night, drink milk, and go back to sleep.


So, just a story from a different corner of the world.

 

KimberlyH

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Interesting read, curly. One of my girlfriends was born and raised in France, moved to Canada at 24 and the U.S. at 26. She had her first baby in August and it has been very interesting talking to her about how she''s doing things, what is typical or normal, etc. Her perspective on pregnancy/parenting is close to mine which has been great for me (I wonder how much of it is cultural and how much of it is that we are friends and think alike).
 

Tacori E-ring

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How interesting! Puts things in perspective. I guess it proves no matter WHAT we do, SOMEONE will think we are screwing up our kids.
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fieryred33143

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Date: 10/18/2009 12:27:01 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
How interesting! Puts things in perspective. I guess it proves no matter WHAT we do, SOMEONE will think we are screwing up our kids.
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LOL so true

As a side note: a lot of people I run into in my community are so surprised that a) I''m waiting until 6 months to introduce solids and b) that I haven''t given DD any solids yet. I had one person suggest that I should have been giving her soups starting at one month to "toughen" her tummy
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DivaDiamond007

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Date: 10/18/2009 12:27:01 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
How interesting! Puts things in perspective. I guess it proves no matter WHAT we do, SOMEONE will think we are screwing up our kids.
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+2.

We all do what''s right for our families - even if someone, some where thinks what you''re doing is wrong.

I get a lot of raised eyebrows when I tell people that my 15 month old still doesn''t STTN and is not allowed to have juice.
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Hey, his doctor says he''s healthy and thriving so why should I worry?
 

Mara

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lol Tacori...you are so right re: someone somewhere thinking we''re screwing them up.

re: different strokes...i read an article recently about babies in another countries where nannies are a basic requirement, even for families with not a lot of money. that you ALWAYS have the child with some type of caretaker, they are rarely left alone, even when sleeping. i don''t remember where or what the details were but that one part of the article stuck with me.

it is still common to give the babies water in a bottle from day one? my mom was telling me how we all got 2-3 bottles of water a day, basically from birth to interchange with the milk, when we were growing up. i thought i don''t really hear moms talk about water at all, so i wondered if it still was still done. seems like it should be...i mean we drink a lot of water in general but maybe breastmilk has a high enough content of water? i don''t even know.
 

mia1181

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Mara- I don''t know where it is culturally customary in other places but here in the U.S. doctors recommend NOT to give babies water bottles. The reasoning is they are essentially on a liquid diet so they are already getting plenty of hydration from BM or Formula. It''s just not necessary. Also it fills their little tummies up when they could be getting nutrition.
 

miraclesrule

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"Experts" in the U.S. change their minds every generation or sooner. WE used to always give our babies water, we were TOLD to do so by our physicians. I think it''s wise to check the soft spot because it can reveal possible dehydration. Just because they get enough milk from the breast, doesn''t mean that a baby could use additional hydration. Babies can spit it all up, poop it all out, etc.

But I can''t get my daughter to do anything that isn''t in her current baby books, despite evidence to the contrary. As long as you are willing to trust your instincts and experiment with safe alternatives, if necessary, than I give a big thumbs up.

I am just wondering how long my daughter will be able to go with employing a nipple pacifier.

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Pandora II

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I grew up on an island in the pacific where no baby was ever allowed to squeak let alone cry. My brother was born out there and the housegirls that we had would go crazy if my mother didn't pick him up endlessly. They also thought that fixed bedtimes were odd and if they were ever left to babysit my parents always came home to find all three of us up and generally dancing on the table.

Everyone breastfed openly and babies were worn all the time, many of the expat women started to do the same. Weaning was onto the soft flesh of young coconuts and then onto normal food. Co-sleeping was what had to happen as whole families slept in the one room.

I will say that in the last week I have decided that I am not worry about STTN, or creating bad habits or anything else of that sort and we have resorted to full bed-sharing. I have had the best nights sleep in 6 months despite Daisy being in the middle of a growth sput, and I've also worked out how my fabric sling thing works and I'm wearing her most of the day and actually get things done for once. She's happier, I'm happier and DH is happier - hooray!

Mara, I've always given Daisy a little bit of water - always in a cup (a normal one) and never more than a tablespoon or so, that way she's getting extra fluids and yet not filling up on things that have no calories.
 

miraclesrule

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I hear ya Pandora!! I had to babysit last night and the baby was so fussy. I told me daughter that I wasn''t going to do that again with a peanut sling or something to snuggle the baby around with me. My shoulders were killing me by the time they got home.

My daughter promised to break it out of the package before tomorrow night when I am slated to babysit again. Thank goodness...otherwise I was going to have to go buy one today.

Happy Babie=Happy Everyone Else.
 

Tacori E-ring

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Miracle, I disagree with experts changing their minds constantly. I think things change as doctors learn more. For example my MIL did NOT understand why we asked her not to put a blanket in our baby's crib. After all it was good enough for her kids. But we NOW know that blankets are a contributing factor to SIDS. That is not to say all babies who use blankets in their crib will all die from SIDS but it is a risk. Was it worth it to take that risk in order not to offend her? Ummm...no. Same goes with putting your baby to sleep on his back, rear facing car seats, BPA free bottles, no water until 4-6 months, no solids until 6 months, etc...I listen to my pedi first and foremost. Its been 30 years since either grandma has had a baby. Things change. Every parent should research on their own and trust their gut.
 

fieryred33143

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Ditto Tacori again. As we move forward, knowledge changes. Back when we were all kids, car seats weren''t a requirement. Now you can''t leave the hospital without a car seat and some even require proof of an inspection.

Mara re: water- it isn''t recommended anymore everywhere. Breast milk and formula have enough water and it is essentially empty calories. If you do give water, it isn''t recommended to give as a meal replacement.

FI''s grandmother asks me every time we see her if we''re going to give her water and when are we going to give her water. And when Sophia has hiccups, forget it lol
 

TravelingGal

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There was an article last year on why infants under 6 months (and now they are saying under 1 year) should not have water. Something about kidneys not knowing what to do with it and sodium levels going haywire. It can also lead to seizures.

I googled it and here''s an article (but not the one I read last year).

http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/newsDetail.aspx?id=4844

Curly, interesting article. However, being Korean, I think perhaps that these different parenting styles lead to different kinds of ADULTS. Culturally, Indonesians and many other South Asians/East Asians are quite different from Americans. I wonder if this has anything to do with it. Americans value independence. Asians are the opposite.
 

Mara

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interesting re: the water... i had further discussion with my mom about it today. i agree for the most part that additional knowledge is power (umm car seats=good), but i also think that there can be knowledge overkill (or like greg says 'analysis paralysis'). a lot of the things our parents did have been improved on, BUT i also tend to think that many home remedies got us all through our childhoods and that knowledge passed down throuhg generations shouldn't be totally discounted. mentally also, i am not the world's biggest fan of western medicine. i think it's more about trial and error than really knowing what is wrong and what to do 'right'.

i asked my mom if we were ever colicky and she said one of my sisters was slightly so but my grandma would give her rose hip tea and chamomile and it would calm her down. though i'm sure if i looked i could find some article on why herbal teas are horrible for the babies.
 

softly softly

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I think this just highlights how we develop parenting strategies to suit our lifestyles. My FIL spent grew up in Africa and spent a lot of time in Indonesia and the Solomon Islands during his professional life and I remember him telling me after my first was born how in those cultures he had observed that babies are cared for by the extended tribe or village and as a result rarely cry because they are constantly held (something about their feet not touching the ground for the first year). As I was one person who did not have a village to support me, or indeed even any family close by and as I had a husband who travelled for 9 days out of every fortnight, I gently suggested to my FIL that such a scenario was perhaps not possible in my house. However I guess now I can see his point and there were times it would have been nice to be surrounded by an extended family of people to help me.

Tgal your observation about how different parenting styles lead to different adults is interesting.
 

fieryred33143

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Mara Here is a link to kellymom.com discussing water for breastfed babies. Again if you want to give water, that''s totally your choice I just wouldn''t give it as a meal replacement which is what a lot of moms used to do: http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/baby-water.html

I probably do a lot more research than is necessary but I''m not a fan of the "it was done back then and we turned out fine" argument. I get into a lot of debates with my mom and MIL because of it: water, solids, CIO, blankets in crib, when to move to own room...the list goes on and on
 

miraclesrule

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Ditto Mara (LOVE your pendant btw! It has me rethinking bezel settings)

American children are NOT getting healthier. Every single statistic will prove that. Our infant mortality rate is Unacceptable. We don''t even crack the top ten on any key indicator compared to other developed countries. Many of our new "rules" on child rearing are not because we have evolved, it is because America was so hellbent on independence that they wanted to do everything differently and then realized that our new ways had unforeseen negative consequences. (It''s also one of the reasons we don''t even know the metric system).

I don''t equate drinking water to seat belts. The latter being a no-brainer. I''m not suggesting that every child should be fed water either. My intent was to illustrate how dependent this current generation is on "experts" instead of their own instincts. It''s one thing to be cautious and another to be downright fearful to deviate from the "one size fits all" mentality.

I just wish new mothers weren''t so fearful and trusted their own senses...assuming the mother had sense. Although, it is hard in America since as T-Gal states, we value independence. I wish we could find a way to bring back community.
 

Mara

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thanks fiery, I will read the link. i would not do water as a meal replacement. would someone replace one of their own meals with water and think it's nutritious?! heck no! my Mom gave us water because she said it helped with constipation and that it made a diff vs just breast milk or formula. it is baffling to me that babies can process FORMULA which is essentially man-made but yet their body can't process water...something our own bodies are made up of by a huge majority.

i don't blanket the good with the bad from the old days. given that my grandmother raised 4 kids and my mom 3...that is 7 more than i have birthed OR raised, so i listen to what they have to say even if i don't always agree.
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my mom is still appalled that we can't put stuffed animals in the crib anymore...hehe.

miracles.. i adore my pendant..just an fyi! and i agree re the one size fits all mentality. it seems like most parents you run into is SURE that their way is the best way...i notice it all the time now since people love to proffer their opinions once they see i am preggo.
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i at least like hearing all the opinions...it's interesting for sure.
 

Kaleigh

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Date: 10/19/2009 12:01:39 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Ditto Mara (LOVE your pendant btw! It has me rethinking bezel settings)

American children are NOT getting healthier. Every single statistic will prove that. Our infant mortality rate is Unacceptable. We don''t even crack the top ten on any key indicator compared to other developed countries. Many of our new ''rules'' on child rearing are not because we have evolved, it is because America was so hellbent on independence that they wanted to do everything differently and then realized that our new ways had unforeseen negative consequences. (It''s also one of the reasons we don''t even know the metric system).

I don''t equate drinking water to seat belts. The latter being a no-brainer. I''m not suggesting that every child should be fed water either. My intent was to illustrate how dependent this current generation is on ''experts'' instead of their own instincts. It''s one thing to be cautious and another to be downright fearful to deviate from the ''one size fits all'' mentality.

I just wish new mothers weren''t so fearful and trusted their own senses...assuming the mother had sense. Although, it is hard in America since as T-Gal states, we value independence. I wish we could find a way to bring back community.
+100

I so agree with this... I wish Mom''s today could just listen to what their insticts tell them... Remember what was said about a mother''s instinct?? Today no one wants to make a move on anything unless it''s in a book.... Or was told by TV by the current fave Pediatrician...


My kids were given bottles of water, did they love them? Niope. But I wanted them to get used to drinking water . As Martha Stewart would say,, " it''s a good thing "
 

TravelingGal

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Each generation is going to have issues because of parenting. Our generation had a lot of moms using CIO. I think we''re probably more independent that the future generation is going to be. I also think we''re probably more detached. I think we''re breeding an entire generation who are not going to be as quick to think on their feet, and that includes people who are CIOing and cosleeping. We just CODDLE our kids more. No one leaves young children alone now, ever (unless you want CPS to come to your house.)

ANY method you use, I believe LOTS of love AND discipline are required. The challenge is finding balance.

As for things our parents did that now the experts say is bad...I am a big believer that my mom screwed up on one thing: JUICE. Argh, I wish she didn''t give me juice. Back then, she thought it was nutritious. At a young age, I still remember hating milk over juice (still don''t like milk to this day). Well, I think it set me up for a life long problem with my teeth! OK, probably a slight exaggeration, but my front two rotted and fell out before they were due to fall out. I still get cleanings 4 times a year instead of the regular two because things can go downhill so easily.

So yes, sometimes our parents did not know best. But all in all, my mom did a great job and I was lucky we didn''t die sleeping in the back of hatchbacks while moving!
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 10/19/2009 12:45:32 AM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 10/19/2009 12:01:39 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Ditto Mara (LOVE your pendant btw! It has me rethinking bezel settings)

American children are NOT getting healthier. Every single statistic will prove that. Our infant mortality rate is Unacceptable. We don''t even crack the top ten on any key indicator compared to other developed countries. Many of our new ''rules'' on child rearing are not because we have evolved, it is because America was so hellbent on independence that they wanted to do everything differently and then realized that our new ways had unforeseen negative consequences. (It''s also one of the reasons we don''t even know the metric system).

I don''t equate drinking water to seat belts. The latter being a no-brainer. I''m not suggesting that every child should be fed water either. My intent was to illustrate how dependent this current generation is on ''experts'' instead of their own instincts. It''s one thing to be cautious and another to be downright fearful to deviate from the ''one size fits all'' mentality.

I just wish new mothers weren''t so fearful and trusted their own senses...assuming the mother had sense. Although, it is hard in America since as T-Gal states, we value independence. I wish we could find a way to bring back community.
+100

I so agree with this... I wish Mom''s today could just listen to what their insticts tell them... Remember what was said about a mother''s instinct?? Today no one wants to make a move on anything unless it''s in a book.... Or was told by TV by the current fave Pediatrician...


My kids were given bottles of water, did they love them? Niope. But I wanted them to get used to drinking water . As Martha Stewart would say,, '' it''s a good thing ''
I think today''s moms do. You read the books that your instincts tell you is the way to go. People read what they want to hear and believe in, and confirms their opinions in the first place.
 

E B

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Date: 10/18/2009 1:09:21 PM
Author: fiery

As a side note: a lot of people I run into in my community are so surprised that a) I'm waiting until 6 months to introduce solids and b) that I haven't given DD any solids yet. I had one person suggest that I should have been giving her soups starting at one month to 'toughen' her tummy

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kellymom has a section explaining why it's best to wait until 6 months or later to give solids to an EBF baby (if you haven't already seen it) with links to various studies.

(Soup at one month?
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)

ETA: Nevermind, I see you linked to it above!
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miraclesrule

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OMG TGal...I can relate. I was a total Kool-Aid kid, and have the dental bills (including teeth implants) to show for it.
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I still try to encourage my daughter to dilute her 100% apple juice with water and she turns 30 tomorrow.
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Reading this thread has me feeling like I did when I had to ask my daughter what "lol" meant, or "MOB". What is CIO?
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Mara- Congrats!! I didn't know you were expecting! So exciting.
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TravelingGal

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Date: 10/19/2009 1:13:35 AM
Author: miraclesrule
OMG TGal...I can relate. I was a total Kool-Aid kid, and have the dental bills (including teeth implants) to show for it.
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I still try to encourage my daughter to dilute her 100% apple juice with water and she turns 30 tomorrow.
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Reading this thread has me feeling like I did when I had to ask my daughter what ''lol'' meant, or ''MOB''. What is CIO?
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CIO is Cry It Out.

And yup, I have an implant too.
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miraclesrule

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Ahhhh, thanks for the translation. I''ll impress my daughter with my oh-so-current Grammaness
 

cdt1101

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Ok, I wasn't going to comment on this thread because it's not supposed to be about debate, but ladies, really??? WATER?? I mean soon air may not be good for our infant either
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Mara - FWIW, our pedi DOES recommend water and has since Lex was born. Only an oz or 2 a day. I didn't start it until recently (at about 4 months) and I put it in a sippy so he can figure it out for himself. Our pedi is pushing 60 though, so a lot of his thought is "old school." Like he knows Lex always slept on his tummy (since 3 weeks old) and while of course he can't 100% support, he doesn't harp on it either. Gave me the "speech" and then a little wink wink
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I don't know, I just think that there is ALWAYS going to be some study that says this or that is "best."

But then I'm clearly out of my mind because my son has slept on his belly, w/ a blanket, and had baby food before 6 months
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ETA: I did not BF...I 100% do think it's the best and understand why moms choose to do it exclusively for a lot longer than formula fed babies. So a lot of my decisions are because he wasn't BFed.
 

MonkeyPie

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I think this is definitely one of those things where every woman is different and she has to go with what she thinks is right - even if everyone else disagrees.

My mom put a tiny amount of baby cereal in my (and my brothers) milk at two weeks old, and it let me sleep through the night without being hungry. But not every baby can do that so young, it really depends on your baby. She also didn''t even take vitamins while pregnant and thinks it''s weird that I am. And my brother and I were never sick as children, beyond the occasional bout of allergies, and we still aren''t. To be perfectly honest, I am going to try it with my baby and see how she does - if I can get her to sleep through the night without months of sleep training, I am all for it!
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fieryred33143

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lol CDT-I think the water issue is different for formula vs breastmilk. From my understanding, pedis do recommend water when you give formula but I''ve only read that in passing.

Miracle-If you really want to impress DD, call it “The Ferber Method” instead lol
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I try to do a combo of things with my whole 3 months of parenting experience
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. I do a lot of research, take into account what my elders tell me, and try to follow my instincts as much as possible.
Here’s a good example: moving Sophia to her own room. Mom thought she should have gone into her own room from day 1. She doesn’t think its good for babies to “breathe adult air”, whatever that means. MIL thinks babies should stay in the room with the parents until at the very minimum one year old. Research says to keep them in your room until at least 4 months because that’s when the risk of SIDS is significantly reduced. But I could tell Sophia was ready to be away from the noise FI and I make and out of her little bassinet at 2 months so that’s when she was moved.
 

cdt1101

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Fiery - glad you got the humor in my post..I wasn''t trying to offend anyone. I just think some of what''s put out there is sooooooo ridiculous! I think we all agree that we try to use our instincts as much as possible. We also put Lex in his room at around 2 months. Our rooms are right next door so we were comfortable w/ it.
 

anchor31

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I''m not a worrier, so my plan with the upcoming little one is more of a "go with the flow" sort of thing. Yes, I do want to try breastfeeding exclusively until 6 months, but my mom wasn''t able to breastfeed us and we''re still very intelligent and have no allergies, so I''m not going to let anyone make me believe I''m a bad mother if it doesn''t work out. Yes, I want to do some baby wearing because attachment is important and all that, but I also believe that I deserve a break every once in a while and don''t plan on co-sleeping. I hadn''t heard of the water debate before and I find it a bit surprising! As long as it''s not used to replace a meal, I''m not sure I see how harmful it can be to give a little extra hydration to a child.

As far as the generational gap thing goes, I was given a pregnancy, labour and child care book at my first trip to the hospital, and I lent it to my mom (and will lend it to MIL once my mom is done reading it) so we can open a discussion about what we plan or not on doing with our own child. The only thing I''m actually worried about is sleeping... MIL told me she used to surround the babies with pillows. That''s a big no-no for me, and if she wants to babysit for the night or something, she will have to understand that.

Generation gap or no, everyone always has conflicting opinions anyway. I can''t ask my mom for advice on breastfeeding, so I asked other women, and one told me to not time the feedings and the baby will stop when he''s done; another told me to time it so the baby doesn''t start using you as a pacifier. I think at one point we just have to go with what works with us and our child since we are all different and all of our babies are different.
 
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