A Daycare WWYD and Toddler Behavior

[Loves Vintage]

I brought my sweet little girl to DC this morning. There is a little boy there, around the same age as her, that runs around like a nut! When I first arrived, the teacher was telling him to be nice and gentle with another girl. I also heard her say that his behavior made her very unhappy and that she didn't want to see that. I assumed he was just playing rough.

Then, when I was talking to the teacher, we turn around and he is on top of my baby (almost 15 mos.)!! She must have been crawling, and he somehow pushed her down into the floor mat. Her face was on the floor, she was crying, and he was on top of her!! He was playing, I'm sure, but still. So, the teacher ran over, removed him and told him to be gentle, and then picked up S and comforted her. I didn't say anything, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm wondering, does this happen every day? Is this normal toddler behavior? What is this teaching my daughter about life? And, what am I supposed to do knowing that she is probably getting knocked-down by some crazy little boy every day that she's there!?!?!

Anyone want to try to help me not freak-out? I do not have a lot of kid experience. I know all kids are different, blah, blah, blah, but I don't want my sweet baby pushed around like that, pretty much ever. I know things like this are going to happen every now and again, but how am I supposed to continue to send her there when it's pretty much guaranteed that her face is going to get pushed into a floor mat. It is not an image that is playing well in mind right now.

 

[yellowducky]

I brought my sweet little girl to DC this morning. There is a little boy there, around the same age as her, that runs around like a nut! When I first arrived, the teacher was telling him to be nice and gentle with another girl. I also heard her say that his behavior made her very unhappy and that she didn't want to see that. I assumed he was just playing rough.

Then, when I was talking to the teacher, we turn around and he is on top of my baby (almost 15 mos.)!! She must have been crawling, and he somehow pushed her down into the floor mat. Her face was on the floor, she was crying, and he was on top of her!! He was playing, I'm sure, but still. So, the teacher ran over, removed him and told him to be gentle, and then picked up S and comforted her. I didn't say anything, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm wondering, does this happen every day? Is this normal toddler behavior? What is this teaching my daughter about life? And, what am I supposed to do knowing that she is probably getting knocked-down by some crazy little boy every day that she's there!?!?!

Anyone want to try to help me not freak-out? I do not have a lot of kid experience. I know all kids are different, blah, blah, blah, but I don't want my sweet baby pushed around like that, pretty much ever. I know things like this are going to happen every now and again, but how am I supposed to continue to send her there when it's pretty much guaranteed that her face is going to get pushed into a floor mat. It is not an image that is playing well in mind right now.

LV, i'm sorry that this is happening to your daughter. are there many caregivers around, or do you find the ratio of adults to children to be such that you think this is likely a common occurrence? i do have a somewhat sad but slightly amusing story to share that might reassure you. i had a coworker who had a young nephew, who was probably about a year and a half in age. my coworker brought his nephew to a company event that was open to family members. throughout the night, i noticed that whenever anyone got somewhat close to the child (even just to say hi), he'd try to slap whomever it was. i asked my coworker what was going on and was told that he, the child, had been bitten by another child at daycare, and after that, he started swatting away anybody who got too close. so, i guess at the very least the lesson is that children are resilient and they'll adapt? last time i checked, he is a healthy and happy boy, if it's any reassurance to you. however, i think i'd feel exactly like you do if i were in your situation.

 

[Loves Vintage]

YD - Thanks for your reply! Yes, there are indeed a sufficient number of care providers. But, even still, I was right there! I don't even remember why we were turned around while we were talking. Oh, we were putting her food in the fridge. We were turned for maybe 10 seconds. I didn't even notice at first. The teacher saw him and reacted fast, so I don't think it's an issue with the DC. I do think this kid is a problem! But, I just don't know how much of a problem. I have a call in to the DC to discuss it. I don't want to sound like a complainer, but I also don't want to be apologetic for being overly-protective or for being a first time mom, or for whatever, which is what I typically do. I just don't think it's right that I pretty much have to accept that she's going to have to learn to deal with this. I do appreciate your story, but also don't want my sweet-natured baby to become a hitter as a result of this kid (or any kid for that matter!) The rest in her class are more laid-back though, as far as I know.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

That sounds like a potentually dangerous situation. There is no way the staff can watch that little problematic boy every second and you shouldn't have to worry that every time someone is cleaning up or doing another task, your baby could be hurt by that child. If the child is a problem child, IMO, he should be removed from the day care center. My experience was my kids were in PT preschool and there were a couple of "mean" kids, as my boys interpreted it and one day, I went in and noticed that there were less kids at the school and after a few more days, those kids hadn't returned. I mentioned to the owner how quiet it was and it turned out she KICKED OUT the problem kids! Yes, she actually concluded it was better to have less income than to have kids who could hurt other kids remaining at the school and she basically cleaned house. Up until then, my older son never adapted, he just complained that he had been hit a few times. Removing the bratty kids was the solution the owner came up with and it made it easier for all the children, staff, & parents.

You should talk to the owner because she is responsible for keeping your baby safe! That is her JOB!

What can be inferiorating is if the excuse is the child had family "issues" at home. That is what I ran into when talking to the owner. ALL the kids had some sort of story or another, which explained why they acted that way, but didn't excuse the daycare for allowing those kids to remain there. I think the owner realized that. Maybe a few other parents took their kids out b/c of that?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, my older son likes to lie on top of Ryder all the time too, and push him over, and pull him around by his legs So what you describe is pretty "normal" in my house. He gets a few warnings and a time out if he does not listen. He just likes to play physically.

I don't think he does that to kids at daycare, they are very good about teaching the kids to respect each others personal space and bodies. I wonder if he is new to daycare and has not learned the routine yet? I admit, the repsonse of the caregiver seems a little ineffectual. It is not how they handle such things at my daycare.

ETA: Gonna be honest, I think some of the other responses are a little hysterical -- yes I mean yo uMC We are talking about toddlers here, right? Like kids under age 3? I spent a lot of time at my kids daycare watching the kids, and they can get overly physical when they get excited, and kids that age also do not have a good sense of others kids "bubbles". It is not the end of the world. Your daughter will learn to push back and claim her space, which is part of growing up. In fact, she will likely bite that other boy Serves him right! OUr sone Hunter often got bitten at daycare, which we knew meant he was getting in other kids space. A good caregiver will respond appropriately, intervene when possible, and make clear expectations. But these things happen when kids are together. You cannot avoid it and I also do not think you should try.

 

[Loves Vintage]

I value all of your responses.

I will admit that my inclination is to stop sending her there, quit my job, and hover over her whenever we meet other kids to make sure they do not harm her. I do realize that is not a sane/rational/good response, which is why I ask other people for opinions and insights. I do not have any context for dealing with stuff like this, and I am beginning to realize that little kids have their own little worlds that I am just beginning to learn about.

Dreamer - Thank you for your response. I was glad to see you responded because I know you will tell me like it is! He is not new to daycare. He's been there since at least 3 months of age, and he's there five days a week. He started walking very early (8 mos.) I do think he probably gets very excited in the mornings when all the other kids arrive. Maybe he calms down as the day progresses? I do think he must be very challenging for his parents!

MC - I did call again and left a message (this time with another teacher who answered) for the director. At the very least, I want her to know that I am concerned about it. I call in every day she's there, and all I am ever told is that she had a great day, what she ate, and how much fun she's having playing. I mentioned it to another mom at work, and she said, non-chalantly, "oh, they only ever tell you about an incident if the other kid leaves a mark. . . . " ETA: She was referring to her child's daycare, not the one that I go to. So, she meant, generally speaking, daycares don't call unless . . .

 

[NovemberBride]

I am with DD here - sounds like pretty typical toddler behavior. I understand it was upsetting to see your DD pushed down, but it doesn't sound as if she was seriously hurt and it also sounds like the teacher responded appropriately. If you are going to send your kids to daycare/pre-school, you have to accept that they will sometimes be pushed, hit or bitten and sometimes they will be the one doing the hitting, pushing or biting (yes, even your sweet perfect angel!). As long as the teachers are reinforcing appropriate behavior, there is not much else you can do. If every kid who pushed or bit another kid was kicked out of daycare, the daycare would go out of business because there would be no kids left. I do think you need to accept that things things are going to happen. And no, these "problem kids" aren't going to turn your sweet-natured baby into a hitter, what is going to happen is that she is going to turn into a toddler and go through the same phases that all toddlers go through, which includes the hitting, kicking, biting phases!

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I have to say I agree with Dreamer here. I know it's upsetting for sure to see, though, so you have my empathy. You say this little fellow is around the same age as your daughter, which means he's around 15 months, right? Toddlers have little to no impulse control and if this boy has physically developed faster and/or earlier, he's simply just more adept at being physical.

I only have my own little sample of two, but from watching my own kids as well as seeing friends who have both boys and girls, there is an obvious difference in the way little girls play from little boys. Boys are much more physical than girls, at least with my son and daughter and all our friends' kids. Also, in my son's class, there are 7 boys and 1 girl. At one point, the lone girl left and I asked the teacher how it was going with all boys. She said it was really hard, since the girl had a more "feminine" influence on the boys, if you will- she played with dolls and strollers and the boys would follow suit. But once she was gone, all they wanted to do was wrestle each other and get physical. And teachers of this age know that there is a lot hitting/biting that goes on as part of normal development. I think his class gets more outside time than typical so the boys can run out their energy. With my own kids, both will play with strollers but my daughter will wheel around her doll and pretend to go shopping, while my son takes his stroller and rams into my daughter, us, the wall, etc., all while making noises. Or she'll pretend that the toy dinosaurs are having a tea party and he's all roaring and making them fight.

Having said all that, if the boy is physically aggressive often, it doesn't make him a "bad" kid, but is incumbent upon the daycare to work with the family to see if there are any triggers where they can anticipate roughness about to occur. Also, children at that age are clumsy and what is intended to be a gentle touch by a toddler often is a slapping or something harder. He may have been trying to hug your daughter but ended up pushing her over, etc.

 

[Dreamer_D]

LV you are being a bubble wrap parent, and your daughter will not thank you for it later I know you are a great mom, but you are letting your anxiety get the better of you here. I say that with love and respect: Nothing you have described so far is anything out of the ordinary for toddler behavior in my opinion. I know it is hard, the older your kids get you have less control of their envionments. It gets worse when they get older. But part of them growing up is letting them grow up and giving them a chance to learn social and emotional skills.

And yes, claming her space -- whether through biting, or hitting, or crying to alert an adult -- is part of that. If she was not in daycare but had an older sibling, she would be used to this by now You should SEE the things Hunter does to Ryder! And with a smile! Playing! He tries to pick him up, ride him like a pony, drag him around by an arm or a leg. And he will say "Ryder likes that!!" while he squishes his face to make him look like a fish As long as he is not too rough and Ryder does not cry, we let them interact. I think Ryder actually does like it, until he gets hurt and doesn't like it anymore. But that teaches Hunter something and Ryder something too, about communication and boundaries and space. But other kids at daycare who have bigger bubbles than Ryder has will react VERY quickly to let the offending child know that his/her behavior is not ok! They will first cry or scream, and if the other child does not listne, they will hit or bite. Hunter used to get bitten a lot And Yes, they only tell you about incidents when another child leaves a mark. Let me tell you, Hunter got those little notes about 25 times in his time in the infant program (up to about 22 months). Kids that age are little animals. Every time we got a note like that we would ask the teachers what Hunter was doing to get bitten -- and the answer was always that he was getting too close to another child. Now that hunter is older, we have conversations like this: Hunter -- "Susy bit me today." Me -- "Oh? What were you doing when she bit you?" Hunter -- "I was pushing her."

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have to say I agree with Dreamer here. I know it's upsetting for sure to see, though, so you have my empathy. You say this little fellow is around the same age as your daughter, which means he's around 15 months, right? Toddlers have little to no impulse control and if this boy has physically developed faster and/or earlier, he's simply just more adept at being physical.

I only have my own little sample of two, but from watching my own kids as well as seeing friends who have both boys and girls, there is an obvious difference in the way little girls play from little boys. Boys are much more physical than girls, at least with my son and daughter and all our friends' kids. Also, in my son's class, there are 7 boys and 1 girl. At one point, the lone girl left and I asked the teacher how it was going with all boys. She said it was really hard, since the girl had a more "feminine" influence on the boys, if you will- she played with dolls and strollers and the boys would follow suit. But once she was gone, all they wanted to do was wrestle each other and get physical. And teachers of this age know that there is a lot hitting/biting that goes on as part of normal development. I think his class gets more outside time than typical so the boys can run out their energy. With my own kids, both will play with strollers but my daughter will wheel around her doll and pretend to go shopping, while my son takes his stroller and rams into my daughter, us, the wall, etc., all while making noises. Or she'll pretend that the toy dinosaurs are having a tea party and he's all roaring and making them fight.

Having said all that, if the boy is physically aggressive often, it doesn't make him a "bad" kid, but is incumbent upon the daycare to work with the family to see if there are any triggers where they can anticipate roughness about to occur. Also, children at that age are clumsy and what is intended to be a gentle touch by a toddler often is a slapping or something harder. He may have been trying to hug your daughter but ended up pushing her over, etc.

This is all SO true about gender.

 

[janinegirly]

LV - I don't send DD to daycare (I have two DD's as you know, age 3 and 6months) but would have had the same response as you ....meritted or not, it's important that you feel comfortable (I admit I can have issues with trust, but isn't trust the foundation that is required in any childcare set up?). Of course the little boy is just a child and likely harmless and yes our children will need to learn to fend for themselves, but still your DD is very young and I imagine you know her temperment which also impacts how you react (my older DD is very sensitive, physically small and easily intimidated for example).

I'd call and set up a conference, explain your concerns. This just puts it on the radar and maybe they'll keep an eye on your DD and pay a bit more attention. I forget when the kids start talking but soon you'll be able to ask DD yourself what's been going on . I wouldn't pull her out of the DC, it's not really that significant an incident yet - unless it happens again and seems like the DC is not handling it properly (maybe do some surprise drop in visits), but if you continue to feel concerned and unease, revisit all options in a few wks,etc.

 

[Loves Vintage]

LV you are being a bubble wrap parent, and your daughter will not thank you for it later I know you are a great mom, but you are letting your anxiety get the better of you here.

Haha! No, actually, I am trying really, really hard not to do that! I absolutely acknowledge that I have a propensity for anxiety, and I am trying really hard to fight against that for the sake of my daughter. That's why I posted here, and that's why I'm talking to other moms about what is normal.

I do thank you for your post though because you are really helping to educate me on what is normal.

LS, Thank you too for your insights into toddler behavior! I cannot say enough how little I know about all of this, so I do appreciate learning from you all. This little boy used to be the only boy in the room, but now there is another. He's usually playing on his own, well, whenever I've been there.

 

[janinegirly]

LV you are being a bubble wrap parent, and your daughter will not thank you for it later I know you are a great mom, but you are letting your anxiety get the better of you here.

Haha! No, actually, I am trying really, really hard not to do that! I absolutely acknowledge that I have a propensity for anxiety, and I am trying really hard to fight against that for the sake of my daughter. That's why I posted here, and that's why I'm talking to other moms about what is normal.

I do thank you for your post though because you are really helping to educate me on what is normal.

LS, Thank you too for your insights into toddler behavior! I cannot say enough how little I know about all of this, so I do appreciate learning from you all. This little boy used to be the only boy in the room, but now there is another. He's usually playing on his own, well, whenever I've been there.

Oh, I think I might be an anxious mom too so maybe I'm not helping .
And my 3 year old can be unintentionally rough with the baby (especially when she first showed up!), but it's minimal and gotten alot better. So I think toddler "rough and tumble" behaviour might be different among children, and of course, genders.

 

[Loves Vintage]

LV - I don't send DD to daycare (I have two DD's as you know, age 3 and 6months) but would have had the same response as you ....meritted or not, it's important that you feel comfortable (I admit I can have issues with trust, but isn't trust the foundation that is required in any childcare set up?). Of course the little boy is just a child and likely harmless and yes our children will need to learn to fend for themselves, but still your DD is very young and I imagine you know her temperment which also impacts how you react (my older DD is very sensitive, physically small and easily intimidated for example).

I'd call and set up a conference, explain your concerns. This just puts it on the radar and maybe they'll keep an eye on your DD and pay a bit more attention. I forget when the kids start talking but soon you'll be able to ask DD yourself what's been going on . I wouldn't pull her out of the DC, it's not really that significant an incident yet - unless it happens again and seems like the DC is not handling it properly (maybe do some surprise drop in visits), but if you continue to feel concerned and unease, revisit all options in a few wks,etc.

Thank you for understanding! Yes, I totally acknowledge that my response may not be warranted; however, it's the one I'm having, and I am trying to deal with it in a reasonable manner. I will talk to the director. I am sure she has dealt with stuff like this again and again. I do trust her, and I also like her very much, which helps and is one of the main reasons why I decided on this place.

 

[Skippy123]

I think boys do do that! It would bother me to though; I separate my boys when they do that. I try to redirect them but I would find out if it happens often. I am sorry. I hope it was just a one time thing. hugs to you and S!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Listen LV don't let me invalidate your feelings at all, there are clearly as many mothers who feel like you as there are mothers who would see it like I do! I am not sure there is a "right way" per se. But I do think trying to keep a perspective is a really good idea. It is easier to be a little more laisse fair with parenting. I am very disciplined with my kids, and adopt what I call a "mindful" approach to parenting where I try to act with intention when I parent. But at the same time I use what I jokingly call "benign neglect" to make life simpler and less full of worry. An example, if my kid falls over and bonks his head I dont rush to him unless he cries. At least 3/4 of the time he's ok, and the other 1/4 I comfort him. But I am a low anxiety person, so it is maybe easier for me to take that approach. At the end of the day there are few absolute rights and wrongs with parenting. You do not need to be perfect and do it all right. Your kids will do fine as long as you are "good enough", which means reasonably responsive, available, warm, kind. You are all those things. This type of thing you are dealing with now is just the extras, not the essentials; how you respond will not determine your daughter's fate, it will just color it.

 

[janinegirly]

Similar to what DD says above, I guess my point was not that you're not "warranted" in your response (in fact I'd be the same), but more that it doesn't matter what the majority feels, it matters what you feel because you are paying a DC a fair amount of $ to give you peace of mind while you are at work. Of course you do have to accept that daycare is not like family, or a nanny (one on one attention) but there are advantages to that (socialization!). In my case I decided against it but maybe this is why my DD is less likely to join in with other kids at preschool and be ramubunctious (or maybe it's just her personality).

Anyway, you need to do what you need to do to feel better ...maybe let a few days pass so initial impulsive thoughts subside, but if you feel the same way - even after the talk with the director - then you're totally justified to take action - it's your baby and your $$.

I also think it's a bit different when an older sibling is rough with the younger one (we have all experienced that..and I admit I freak out about it more than the baby does -- she laughs!) when compared to an older boy at school. It's natural to want to protect and not being around is tough. Anyway, it'll work out and you're doing great .

Keep us posted!!

 

[packrat]

Boys are so incredibly different than girls-I have a brother, so I knew that but..I don't remember us at toddler age, I just remember playing compromise games of "My Little Pony meets Transformers Insecticons" and "Barbie moves next door to Insecticons". London wasn't around other kids very often, my one friend who had kids had two boys at the time, so there was some parental interference during play time there, but one boy was a few years older so he liked to help keep them playing nicely. When London started preschool when I'd volunteer there, there were only a couple boys so I never saw anything to be concerned about. Then..Trapper came along, and he learned to crawl and then walk and then..smash toys on the wall and leave dents and chip the paint and leave paint marks that no Magic Eraser has been able to magically erase, throw toys at London, kick her, bit a couple times-even just in a crawling stage, that boy could do some damage. Never seen anything like it before. I said something to mom that I thought there was something seriously wrong w/him, and she said "Yes well..I thought your brother was going to grow up to be a serial killer for years, and he's fine"



Cuz yeah, that helped you know.

Boys are rougher than girls. London has had to learn to defend herself against the onslaught of Into Shit Bob, and mom tells me I had to do the same thing. Your daughter will too.

 

[Kunzite]

LV - I think part of the reason this is bothering you so much is that in your mind you see this happening all day, every day that S is there. The reality is probably much different and this is an isolated case. Drop off time is naturally more chaotic than the rest of the day because the teachers are being distracted by the parents! I assure you the teachers know exactly which kids play rough and make sure to keep their eye on them. Drop off and pick up time is also the only real "free" time they have at our DC, the rest of the day is filled with crafts, circle time, snacks, lunch, and nap time. So the percentage of time during the day that the kids are running around like this is small. One of the reasons I like sending O to DC is that he's learning on his own how to deal with these social situations. And S did deal with the situation, she cried and got the teachers attention. Yes she's small still but she'll only benefit from learning how to deal with these situations in a controlled environment. Good luck! I think talking to the Director is a great idea so you can make sure that you're on the same page and she can hopefully help put your mind at ease.

 

[Pandora II]

LV - totally normal behaviour for this age group. They learn to deal with it - and not necessarily by hitting back - although my siblings and I beat the hell out of each other for years.

I picked Daisy up from nursery this afternoon and a child pushed her really hard (I know the child as his mother is a friend and I recommended the nursery to her. The kid has never been to nursery before and also at 2.5 doesn't speak and I think he gets very frustrated about things but he's a nice kid and the mother is STRICT). Anyway, Daisy turned round, looked at him and said 'don't push, it's not nice. You don't do that'.

I've picked her up twice with black eyes where she's fallen off things - I got a written report from the nursery about each occasion and D was totally unbothered (she's had 2 black eyes at home as well - actually she looks like a battered kid most of the time as she's utterly fearless and does silly things like jump off tables when I'm not looking). I don't see a massive difference in girl v boy behaviour to be honest, but that may be because I have a mad tearaway.

I love her nursery and think the staff are brilliant with all the kids - they discipline well, and all the children are happy and nice to each other in general. One thing that is important to me is the staff child ratio - here it is by law 1:3 for under-2's, 1:4 for 2 year-olds and 1:8 for 3 years and over. D's nursery has 18 months - 5 years and a ratio of 1:4 so a beady eye is kept on everyone.

I think you need to relax - I wanted to wrap my child in cotton-wool too. IIRC I wanted to buy her one of those helmets in case she fell over until DD said she'd report me for child cruelty!

 

[Munchkin]

From the perspective of a mom of a 15 month old boy and a pediatric provider, what you described is normal toddler behavior. In fact, for a minute, I truly wondered if you were posting about my son! Toddlers don't understand physical boundaries. Further, they are fascinated by strong reactions to their behavior (crying, flinching, etc) and often repeat undesirable behaviors just to elicit the response. It isn't done with malice but by means of exploring interactions in the world. They don't realize how much they can physically hurt others.

If this child were routinely harming your daughter, you would have noted marks and received incident reports. If they wrote incident reports every time a child was pushed or struck, they wouldn't have any staff free to watch the children!

The first time I got a report that my B had been bitten I flew into overprotective mom mode. You know what? B was being a beast to another boy, and the boy reacted. I'll never forget the day I dropped off B and watched my sweet kid run across the room, rip a paci from another child's mouth and put it into his own! We only allow a paci at bedtime and all B could focus on was the instant gratification.

Also, please know that what follows is NOT to bash you. For what it's worth, I am a self proclaimed "Nervous Nellie." I had such anxiety after the 1st time B had to be admitted to the hospital for dehydration/vomiting (I was out playing tennis and he was home with my husband) that I stopped planning ANY evening activities for months! Yet, even I don't call daycare unless there is something specific I need to discuss with the staff. I.E. I've called on days that I knew he was "off" to see if he perked up or if they thought he was getting sick, etc. IMHO calling every day she is there seems excessive. Doesn't your DC provide you with written communication about what she has eaten/done/napped? You can always ask for more details at pick up, right?

My fear is that you are so nervous that you aren't allowing your daughter to just experience the natural highs and lows that come with daycare. She is going to get hurt. She is going to get hit, pushed and bitten. Calling daily won't stop that and may increase your anxiety. What will you do the day you first hear she's been bitten? Leave work? Build up the even in your head all day so you're imaging a horrible wound? The fact that you call daily won't encourage the staff to be more vigilant with your child.

You know what else is going to happen? She'll learn to share. She'll learn personal boundaries. She will work through toddler viruses so, come school, she will be healthy, socially adjusted and without separation anxiety. That sounds like the makings of a happy adult!

Good luck. I hope the terrible feeling I'm sure you have in your stomach is calmer after a night's sleep and a good talk with the DC director.

 

[KimberlyH]

Because I'm no nonsense about physical inapprpriateness if my daughter pushed I'd want her placed in some sort of time out immediately. I know I'm an outlier in that regard though, and so I would understand and accept throat the response of the caregiver was reasonable and I would have forgotten all about the incident shortly after it happened. That isn't to say I wouldnt be upset when it happened, because who wants to see their kid pummeled, but I know enough about child behaviors to know toddlers have little concept of physical boundaries and no understanding of empathy so I tend to be pretty lax when my kid gets knocked around a bit.

You clearly feel differently though, so what I would do doesn't matter. U need to do what makes you comfortable, whether that means finding a new daycare or speaking with teachers and the director. But my guess is they won't Change much about how they handle anyone but you, because it sounds like he was just being a toddler.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Because I'm no nonsense about physical inapprpriateness if my daughter pushed I'd want her placed in some sort of time out immediately. I know I'm an outlier in that regard though, and so I would understand and accept throat the response of the caregiver was reasonable and I would have forgotten all about the incident shortly after it happened. That isn't to say I wouldnt be upset when it happened, because who wants to see their kid pummeled, but I know enough about child behaviors to know toddlers have little concept of physical boundaries and no understanding of empathy so I tend to be pretty lax when my kid gets knocked around a bit.

You clearly feel differently though, so what I would do doesn't matter. U need to do what makes you comfortable, whether that means finding a new daycare or speaking with teachers and the director. But my guess is they won't Change much about how they handle anyone but you, because it sounds like he was just being a toddler.

That's actually why I posted here because I really am interested in how you all feel. I truly was not sure how to feel about it because I genuinely was not aware of that toddlers had this lack of physical boundaries. It may sound strange, but I really didn't! I've had friends who would complain that their kids had gotten bitten by other kids at their dc's, or co-workers who had to have the meetings with dc because their kid was biting or pushing, but no one has ever said, oh well my daughter was bitten at daycare because the other child is such and such age and isn't fully aware of physical boundaries or whatever else. This is very much a learning experience for me, and I am so glad I can come here for well-reasoned and thoughtful responses.

Question about time-outs -- at what age do parents start that? And, this is an honest question -- if the kid is running around like a nut and knocking other kids down because he doesn't understand physical boundaries, then how would a time-out help? He's not going to learn about physical boundaries that way, so why bother?

 

[Loves Vintage]

Boys are so incredibly different than girls-I have a brother, so I knew that but..I don't remember us at toddler age, I just remember playing compromise games of "My Little Pony meets Transformers Insecticons" and "Barbie moves next door to Insecticons". London wasn't around other kids very often, my one friend who had kids had two boys at the time, so there was some parental interference during play time there, but one boy was a few years older so he liked to help keep them playing nicely. When London started preschool when I'd volunteer there, there were only a couple boys so I never saw anything to be concerned about. Then..Trapper came along, and he learned to crawl and then walk and then..smash toys on the wall and leave dents and chip the paint and leave paint marks that no Magic Eraser has been able to magically erase, throw toys at London, kick her, bit a couple times-even just in a crawling stage, that boy could do some damage. Never seen anything like it before. I said something to mom that I thought there was something seriously wrong w/him, and she said "Yes well..I thought your brother was going to grow up to be a serial killer for years, and he's fine"



Cuz yeah, that helped you know.

Boys are rougher than girls. London has had to learn to defend herself against the onslaught of Into Shit Bob, and mom tells me I had to do the same thing. Your daughter will too.

Thanks for your response Packrat. I laughed, as I often do when you post, at the bold! You're very funny! You should post more often!! Anyway, it's an interesting thing re: boys vs. girls, isn't it? I will surely keep it in mind.

 

[Loves Vintage]

LV - I think part of the reason this is bothering you so much is that in your mind you see this happening all day, every day that S is there. The reality is probably much different and this is an isolated case. Drop off time is naturally more chaotic than the rest of the day because the teachers are being distracted by the parents! I assure you the teachers know exactly which kids play rough and make sure to keep their eye on them. Drop off and pick up time is also the only real "free" time they have at our DC, the rest of the day is filled with crafts, circle time, snacks, lunch, and nap time. So the percentage of time during the day that the kids are running around like this is small. One of the reasons I like sending O to DC is that he's learning on his own how to deal with these social situations. And S did deal with the situation, she cried and got the teachers attention. Yes she's small still but she'll only benefit from learning how to deal with these situations in a controlled environment. Good luck! I think talking to the Director is a great idea so you can make sure that you're on the same page and she can hopefully help put your mind at ease.

Yes, Kunzite, that is exactly what I was worried about. Thanks for picking up on that from my first post! So, all I knew, as of yesterday morning, was that within a 5 minute time span, this kid was corrected for being too rough with two other kids: S and the first kid. So, as time passes, I start thinking, is this what happens to my daughter all day long? And, you are right, it is a drop-off time thing. I will do another post with my update.

 

[Loves Vintage]

LV - totally normal behaviour for this age group. They learn to deal with it - and not necessarily by hitting back - although my siblings and I beat the hell out of each other for years.

I picked Daisy up from nursery this afternoon and a child pushed her really hard (I know the child as his mother is a friend and I recommended the nursery to her. The kid has never been to nursery before and also at 2.5 doesn't speak and I think he gets very frustrated about things but he's a nice kid and the mother is STRICT). Anyway, Daisy turned round, looked at him and said 'don't push, it's not nice. You don't do that'.

I've picked her up twice with black eyes where she's fallen off things - I got a written report from the nursery about each occasion and D was totally unbothered (she's had 2 black eyes at home as well - actually she looks like a battered kid most of the time as she's utterly fearless and does silly things like jump off tables when I'm not looking). I don't see a massive difference in girl v boy behaviour to be honest, but that may be because I have a mad tearaway.

I love her nursery and think the staff are brilliant with all the kids - they discipline well, and all the children are happy and nice to each other in general. One thing that is important to me is the staff child ratio - here it is by law 1:3 for under-2's, 1:4 for 2 year-olds and 1:8 for 3 years and over. D's nursery has 18 months - 5 years and a ratio of 1:4 so a beady eye is kept on everyone.

I think you need to relax - I wanted to wrap my child in cotton-wool too. IIRC I wanted to buy her one of those helmets in case she fell over until DD said she'd report me for child cruelty!

Thanks, Pandora! I always love to hear stories about your Daisy! Such a strong-willed girl! Come visit us in the 12-36 month thread with more stories whenever you like!!

 

[Loves Vintage]

Listen LV don't let me invalidate your feelings at all, there are clearly as many mothers who feel like you as there are mothers who would see it like I do! I am not sure there is a "right way" per se. But I do think trying to keep a perspective is a really good idea. It is easier to be a little more laisse fair with parenting. I am very disciplined with my kids, and adopt what I call a "mindful" approach to parenting where I try to act with intention when I parent. But at the same time I use what I jokingly call "benign neglect" to make life simpler and less full of worry. An example, if my kid falls over and bonks his head I dont rush to him unless he cries. At least 3/4 of the time he's ok, and the other 1/4 I comfort him. But I am a low anxiety person, so it is maybe easier for me to take that approach. At the end of the day there are few absolute rights and wrongs with parenting. You do not need to be perfect and do it all right. Your kids will do fine as long as you are "good enough", which means reasonably responsive, available, warm, kind. You are all those things. This type of thing you are dealing with now is just the extras, not the essentials; how you respond will not determine your daughter's fate, it will just color it.

I recall you posted about your benign neglect philosophy of parenting in the past. I'm really just trying to figure this all out as we go. Seems to be going well so far! I really like hearing about what other people are doing.

I will say the bolded is something that I think about. Perhaps because I am so messed up as an adult! Perhaps I should actually start reading some parenting books?

Just for the record, I don't run to S every time she falls either (only if she cries.) I don't have time too!

 

[Loves Vintage]

From the perspective of a mom of a 15 month old boy and a pediatric provider, what you described is normal toddler behavior. In fact, for a minute, I truly wondered if you were posting about my son! Toddlers don't understand physical boundaries. Further, they are fascinated by strong reactions to their behavior (crying, flinching, etc) and often repeat undesirable behaviors just to elicit the response. It isn't done with malice but by means of exploring interactions in the world. They don't realize how much they can physically hurt others.

If this child were routinely harming your daughter, you would have noted marks and received incident reports. If they wrote incident reports every time a child was pushed or struck, they wouldn't have any staff free to watch the children!

The first time I got a report that my B had been bitten I flew into overprotective mom mode. You know what? B was being a beast to another boy, and the boy reacted. I'll never forget the day I dropped off B and watched my sweet kid run across the room, rip a paci from another child's mouth and put it into his own! We only allow a paci at bedtime and all B could focus on was the instant gratification.

Also, please know that what follows is NOT to bash you. For what it's worth, I am a self proclaimed "Nervous Nellie." I had such anxiety after the 1st time B had to be admitted to the hospital for dehydration/vomiting (I was out playing tennis and he was home with my husband) that I stopped planning ANY evening activities for months! Yet, even I don't call daycare unless there is something specific I need to discuss with the staff. I.E. I've called on days that I knew he was "off" to see if he perked up or if they thought he was getting sick, etc. IMHO calling every day she is there seems excessive. Doesn't your DC provide you with written communication about what she has eaten/done/napped? You can always ask for more details at pick up, right?

My fear is that you are so nervous that you aren't allowing your daughter to just experience the natural highs and lows that come with daycare. She is going to get hurt. She is going to get hit, pushed and bitten. Calling daily won't stop that and may increase your anxiety. What will you do the day you first hear she's been bitten? Leave work? Build up the even in your head all day so you're imaging a horrible wound? The fact that you call daily won't encourage the staff to be more vigilant with your child.

You know what else is going to happen? She'll learn to share. She'll learn personal boundaries. She will work through toddler viruses so, come school, she will be healthy, socially adjusted and without separation anxiety. That sounds like the makings of a happy adult!

Good luck. I hope the terrible feeling I'm sure you have in your stomach is calmer after a night's sleep and a good talk with the DC director.

Hi Munchkin, Thanks so much for your response! Very helpful to know this is all normal. I did want to respond to the bolded. I do not call because I am worried that something bad will happen to her. I just call in the afternoon to hear what she's been up to and how her day has been going. It's a call that I really look forward to. And, then I e-mail my husband and tell him what we talked about. My DH is extremely laid-back, but I guess we both have boring jobs, because if I don't e-mail him by like 2, he'll ask me if I've called yet! I guess we've just grown accustomed to these little updates. They do indeed send home a note each day. I should mention that S is there 2 days per week, so it's not like I'm calling every day of the week! Maybe it is too much, but they've never indicated that it's a bother.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

That's actually why I posted here because I really am interested in how you all feel. I truly was not sure how to feel about it because I genuinely was not aware of that toddlers had this lack of physical boundaries. It may sound strange, but I really didn't! I've had friends who would complain that their kids had gotten bitten by other kids at their dc's, or co-workers who had to have the meetings with dc because their kid was biting or pushing, but no one has ever said, oh well my daughter was bitten at daycare because the other child is such and such age and isn't fully aware of physical boundaries or whatever else. This is very much a learning experience for me, and I am so glad I can come here for well-reasoned and thoughtful responses.

Question about time-outs -- at what age do parents start that? And, this is an honest question -- if the kid is running around like a nut and knocking other kids down because he doesn't understand physical boundaries, then how would a time-out help? He's not going to learn about physical boundaries that way, so why bother?

I can address your bolded statement. I have a biter/hitter (son) and a child who has never hit or bitten in her life (daughter). You can imagine my shock to see my son in action after having a child who is simply not physically aggressive (she has never responded physically to defend herself even when my son is hitting or biting her)- I was thinking, what kind of feral child do I have?! Actually, he has been bitten more than he has been the biter; just yesterday, I got a call from daycare saying another child had bitten him on the thumb. We have repeatedly asked his teachers if he's overly aggressive or physical and they always say no, that it's very normal for kids this age to push, hit, or bite and that he doesn't do anything that's out of the ordinary. Now that I've had a biter myself, I more fully understand that it's nothing that we're doing to make him become a biter, but of course we address each and every offense.

But like I said, if this boy (who let's face it, at 15 months is still really a baby himself) is regularly aggressive (again, most likely without intent or malice), then I do believe it's incumbent upon the daycare and the parents to work to ascertain what, if anything, is triggering his behavior. Some kids don't do well with transitions, so maybe drop-off is a particularly bad time for him. My son has been in daycare since he was 6 months old (he just turned 2 last week) and at times still finds drop-off hard, so I wouldn't say that the longer a child has been in daycare necessarily always means that certain aspects of being in daycare, like drop-off or pick-up, are smooth and easy. And don't forget, children this age get frustrated easily- they can't talk to express themselves and they're in pain because they're teething- so some can bite or hit as part of their frustration.

But, I did want to say again that I understand! When we put our daughter in daycare, she was almost 18 months old and there was a boy who seemed really aggressive towards her- he'd come up to her and hit her, etc. We were shocked! We talked to the teachers/director just to make sure they were aware of what was happening, as this child was like this to a lot of kids, and they knew and were working with the parents. And in the end, as they matured, sure enough, he grew out of that phase.

And about the timeouts- opinions vary widely, but my own opinion is children this age are too young to understand the rationale behind timeouts. I've put my son in a "timeout" before just to get him to cool down and to separate him from my daughter, but I don't think he understands why. My daughter at 3 or 3.5 understands and gets the concept, but not my son.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Ok, I'm back with my update now. All is well. I spoke with the director on the phone. She said yes, he is very rambunctious, particularly at drop-off time! She suggested they could keep him in the adjacent room (the next group up) until he settles down. I said, well, that's where he was when I first got there yesterday, and I mentioned the other incident (? not even sure what to call it?) with the other kid. She suggested I speak with the teacher. The teacher said he was trying to hug S (Hello LS!!! That's what you suggested might be the case!) and isn't fully aware of his movements or whatever. So, I think she was crawling, he went to give her a hug and kind of fell on top of her, and she got startled. She also said that he settles down once they start circle time and activities. She assured me that S is not getting beat on every day. If she were concerned about the other kid's behavior, she would not have hesitated to have his parents in for a meeting. I am completely satisfied with this response. A lesson learned! Thanks everyone!