What do you think of this diamond - Idealscope included

[metro]

Please chime in!
Is this a good image? I doesn't appear as dark in the Idealscope image as other stones I've seen, so I need your expert opinions, please! Is this a keeper?
Carat - 2.04
DEPTH %: 59.90
TABLE %: 58.00
CROWN ∠: 34.00
PAVILION ∠:40.60

 

[skypie]

Looks great! Approaching a 60/60 style, if that's what you prefer.

 

[metro]

Thanks @skypie. I'm not sure what a 60/60 style means.

 

[skypie]

It refers to a diamond with a table % and depth % of close to 60%. It results in less fire but more white light return. It isn't better or worse than a more traditional MRB just a different look that some like or dislike.

 

[gm89uk]

Looks good, if you want to share the other idealscope images you've seen and what you think is dark, you may be dismissing other good stones, just in case there are other good ones out there for you to consider.

 

[metro]

It refers to a diamond with a table % and depth % of close to 60%. It results in less fire but more white light return. It isn't better or worse than a more traditional MRB just a different look that some like or dislike.

Thank you for the explanation! I did not know that. Interesting. Not I REALLY want to see this stone in person.

 

[metro]

Hello, @gm89uk. Here's a pic of the Idealscope of my current diamond. The center of the diamond is not that much lighter than the rest of the image, which looks darker to me. It could totally be the lighting, but I don't know - hence my question.

The image of the new stone seems a bit all around lighter, which a lighter center, which I wasn't sure was a reason to keep looking. I hope you see what I mean.

Current Diamond


Possible New Diamond

 

[sledge]

Overall the IS image looks pretty good. With a shallower 34 crown, I would prefer to see your pavilion around 40.9 but as evidenced in the IS image, it's still working out okay. Here is how proportions only look when looking at the AGS proportions charts.



I might add that one major difference I see between your current stone and potential new stone is the lower girdle facets (LGF's) on the new stone appear to be closer to 80, whereas I'm guessing the LGF's on your existing stone are closer to 75. I mention this because you may have inadvertently developed a preference.

Keep in mind the following:

• GIA reported 75 LGF's = 73-77 actual
• GIA reported 80 LGF's = 78-82 actual
• Smaller LGF's = fatter arrows
• Bigger LGF's = skinnier arrows
• Many people prefer fatter arrows
• Smaller LGF's can enhance diamond appearance in dark/soft lighting
• Larger LGF's can enhance diamond appearance in bright lighting
• Generally speaking, 75-80 LGF is acceptable

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/facets-the-lower-halves.htm

 

[metro]

@sledge - WOW! That's very interesting about the arrows. I've learned something! I think I've always been attracted to skinner arrows as that's all I ever had. Like you stated, I may have developed a preference. Now I'd like to see what fatter arrows look like in real life!

 

[sledge]

@sledge - WOW! That's very interesting about the arrows. I've learned something! I think I've always been attracted to skinner arrows as that's all I ever had. Like you stated, I may have developed a preference. Now I'd like to see what fatter arrows look like in real life!

Glad it helped. However, based on your existing stone and the new one you are considering I would say your current one has fatter arrows. Do you still have a copy of your old GIA/AGS certificate? If so, what value do they report for the LGF's?

Below are some quick screen caps I took below to show you how to find them:

 

[metro]

@sledge Thank you! I don't have the report that shows the diamond diagram, only this info:
Report Type: GIA Diamond Dossier®
Date of Issue: December 17, 2007
Laser Inscription Registry: GIA 16639641
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.25 - 6.30 x 3.88 mm
Carat Weight: 0.93
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 61.8 %
Table: 56 %
Crown Angle: 35°
Crown Height: 15.5 %
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43 %
Star length: 55 %
Lower Half: 75 %
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Cloud

No sure if this has the info you're seeking or not. In any case, I do appreciate you taking the time to read my post and comment. It's very much appreciated. Thank you!

Chance, can you post a pic of what fat arrows might look like in real life? Here's a pic of my diamond.

 

[sledge]

First off, your current stone is gorgeous! Great pic of the arrows!!

You have 75 LGF's. This is reported as "Lower Half" on the last set of data you posted. What is reported on your potential replacement?

Some good reading here if you are interested:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/facets-the-lower-halves.htm



Out of curiosity have you seen the possible replacement with your own eyes yet? I am worried it may have a personality different than what you currently own.

Your current stone has a higher 35 crown coupled with a 40.8 pavilion and 56 table and 61.7 depth. That steep crown and small table will produce lots of fire!

The replacement stone has a shallower 34 crown with a shallow 40.6 pavilion and 58 table and 59.9 depth. Good news is the stone will size up well because of the shallow crown and large table. It has good angles but the shallow crown and large table will produce a bright white light return as opposed to rainbow light like your current stone.

Most people prefer the style of your existing stone, although there is nothing wrong with the style of the potential replacement. You just need to be aware of the difference. Also if the replacement stone has 80 LGFs it will have smaller bursts as opposed to larger bursts of light return.

Not discouraging you. Just trying to give you a complete picture. I would definitley compare the stone loose against your existing stone before making a final commitment to it.

 

[metro]

@sledge THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BREAKING IT DOWN FOR ME!
Thank you for the link as well, though it's very technical. I'm still not that versed in all the technical diamond talk.
As far as the potential new stone - no I haven't seen it in person. Looking at the GIA report, it has LGF of 75%. I have been looking to upgrade my current stone through JA, so my search is based on the JA website. I might go about searching the wrong way, but I normally just go by looks, then I'll put the numbers into HCA, then if that's all good - I'll request the ASET. It takes so much time! I wish I could just look at the numbers and know.
I want my upgraded stone to be on par to what I have now or better - just larger! I'm sacrificing on color, but not cut. My new stone must have lots of fire! So I thank you for pointing out the differences with this new stone contender. I'm not in a rush so you're not discouraging me in the least! I REALLY appreciate all the info you've past on. That's exactly why I come here!

Here's the proposed new stone

 

[sledge]

You're very welcome @metro. I'm glad I could be of help to you.

I know you are looking for around 2 carat. But if you will confirm color, clarity and your budget then I'd be happy to take a look for some alternates on your behalf. Also, let us know if we have to work with a particular vendor (JA, WF, BGD, etc) so you can get trade value back from your original stone.

In regards to the LGF's, I am thinking there could be a few reasons why the LGF's in your existing stone appear fatter to me:

• As already noted, when a reported value of 75% is given, this can actually represent an ACTUAL value between 73-77. This is just a pure guess, but one solution would be that your existing stone is 73% or somewhere in the lower echelon, whereas the new stone is around the 77% mark; therefore, confirming there is a size difference in the actual values although both stones both share a reported value of 75%.
• Another potential solution is the image of your existing stone is larger than the new stone and perhaps an optical illusion is occurring. To help eliminate that possibility, I re-sized the picture of your existing stone to the same size of the proposed stone and placed them side by side. To me, it appears there is still a difference. Although this is a magnified view and would be less noticeable (if at all) with the naked eye.

 

[bmfang]

Your current stone is utterly gorgeous. To be honest, I think it looks better than the stone you are now considering.

 

[gm89uk]

Additional to rounding, the same LGF % will produce variation in the 'arrow fatness' with different pavilion/crown combos. An FIC top heavy diamond like a 38/40.4 will favour much longer LGF (80+) or there will be too much contrast, for example.

Just wondering, where was your first diamond from? Looks fantastic. Are you upgrading through the same vendor?

 

[metro]

@bmfang - THANK YOU! Though I do plan to trade-in, apart of me will be sad to see this gem go! It's really a beautiful diamond!

@gm89uk - Thank you for the information. I'm seriously taking notes! I am looking at only JA at the moment, since I purchased my current stone from them.

@sledge - I can see the fatter arrows in the images side by side - thank you for posting them. Your explanation makes sense. I've never heard of LGF before and I'm glad to be learning something new, besides the 4 C's of diamond shopping. Reading through the older treads discussing arrow thickness makes my head hurt! Folks getting VERY technical, throwing out numbers and angles and variations, Oy! It losses me, I'm not ashamed to admit.

I am looking to upgrade my .93/G/SI2 stone (yes, it's an SI2!) to the 1.50-2.00 mark. Since I plan for this to be my last upgrade, I want to make it count! My current stone is in a halo setting and I'm use to that larger presence on my finger. I now want a solitaire or 3-stone setting, so the larger the stone, the better. I've only ever worn colorless diamonds E-G, so getting a warmer stone is going to be a change for me. I am sensitive to color, but I am prepared to sacrifice to meet my price point. I have never seen a K-colored stone in person, but I've seem many beautiful rings online and have looked through every single thread I could find showing pictures of body color. In reality, I think I would prefer a J, but I would consider a K for sure. Since I'm looking at trading my current diamond in, I must go with JA. If I could trade it in to another vendor, that would be great - but I know no such vendor, so I'm resigned to JA. I paid $3600 for my current stone 10 years ago, so I have to at least spend $7200 with JA for trade up. My budget for the stone is up to 12K.

Here's my criteria:
Vendor: JA
Budget: $7200-12K for the stone. Would like to keep the cost down as much as possible as the setting is going to cost $$$$.
Size: 1.50-up. Ideally, I want closer to 2ct. My ring size is a 3/4 so this size will look nice on my finger without making me uncomfortable.
Color: Would like to stick to a J, but I'm ok up to a K. I've only ever worn E-G colored stones and I can see a difference between E and G. I'm color sensitive. With that said, I've seen some beautiful online K/L colored stones with body color that leans more towards the brown that I found appealing. I just don't want to SEE any body color when I look down at my ring in casual settings, like the office.
Clarity: Up to an eye clean SI2! I rock a beautiful SI2 now! I don't mind a little flaw here and there, as long as it doesn't impact the over beauty.
Shape: Not to open another can of worms, but I'm looking for a round or a radiant cut! I do love a good radiant as they elongate my short fingers, LOL.
Time Frame: None. I'm in no rush. I just want the perfect stone for me! I know that may take time.

Any direction you can give me to a great stone would be very much appreciated! You've been such a help and a wealth of information and I appreciate you taking the time you have to educate me.

 

[farrahlyn]

Speaking of fat arrows:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4748738

you mentioned radiants so i took a quick look and this one caught my eye:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/2.15-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-sku-5677385

 

[metro]

@farrahlyn Those are fat arrows! I like it! And that radiant ain't to shabby either! Perfect! Thank you for giving me some considerations!

 

[gm89uk]

Hey Metro, is that $7200 to 12k including or excluding the value for your upgrade?

 

[gm89uk]

sorry @metro ignore my last question, I read your reply to sledge.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5903566

Yes it's deep, but I'll forgive that a little due to the table and crown, the clarity profile for an SI2, and the mm/$. It's within budget (especially if paying by wire, remember to ask for a JA affinity discount).

Inclusions are multiple smaller feathers under the crown. There is a cloud I can see in the video at the table/crown junction around 7oclock, which appears to be reflected else where, but I cannot see any diffuse clouds. The light intensity seems slightly less under the table as it can appear on a 36/40.6 combo but it has beautiful arrows, and a small table to match the high crown with a lovely 16.5% crown height. I would expect it to pass the idealscope test.

I think for your situation, and budget, seems like a great catch.

 

[metro]

@gm89uk Thank you for finding this stone for me! I'm going to request the Idealscope.

Also, what's the JA Affinity discount?

 

[gm89uk]

@metro just a word of caution that JA will only allow up to 3 idealscopes for your potential stones. I would clarify with the gemologist that it is eyeclean first, and are particularly that the clouds are not causing any transparency issues.

 

[gm89uk]

@metro would love to see the idealscope of that diamond if you got it. What did you decide for in the end?

 

[metro]

@gm89uk Hello! I did request the idealscope, along with the radiant. They did send me the radiant, but not the round. They did put it on hold too. I need to reach out to them again to see what's up. It looked promising!

 

[metro]

In case anyone can comment, here's the radiant ASET.

 

[sledge]

Some articles & comparisons for you:
https://beyond4cs.com/grading/aset-reference-charts/
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/education/how-to-read-an-aset-image

Poor - Average

Good - Above Average

Best – Excellent

 

[flyingpig]

Some articles & comparisons for you:
https://beyond4cs.com/grading/aset-reference-charts/
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/education/how-to-read-an-aset-image

Poor - Average

Good - Above Average

Best – Excellent

I am not a big fan of this chart for radiant cuts. Radiant cuts come in so many different ratios, flavours and pavilion facet designs. None of the three stones under Best-Excellent is good for me. If I am picking one from JA, this one caught my eyes.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/1.71-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-5466286

I am not liking the J 2.15 J VS2.

 

[metro]

@gm89uk - Well, the idealscope for that diamond never showed up, and when I requested it again, they said the diamond either sold or was hold. That was quick! I just had it on hold myself - waiting for the idealscope.

@sledge - I've seen that chart for radiants, though I don't fully understand it. It seems like the bottom left for the "Best - Excellent", wouldn't be a good stone. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see as good indicators for cut. The one I received from JA has more greens and reds, which I would think is a good thing. I wish I could just take JA word for it if it's a good stone or not. Seems like every ASET/Idealscope they send me, comes with praising comments from their online rep. I feel overwhelmed with all this reading material and research for finding the right stone. UGH! You've been ever so helpful though - and I appreciate all the advice you've given! Thank you!

@flyingpig - Thank you for the link to the radiant. It is lovely, though a bit over my budget! Seems like finding a nice one isn't as easy finding a nice round. Though I love round diamonds, I love the elongated look of a radiant on my short fingers. They just look so elegant to me.

 

[flyingpig]

@gm89uk - Well, the idealscope for that diamond never showed up, and when I requested it again, they said the diamond either sold or was hold. That was quick! I just had it on hold myself - waiting for the idealscope.

@sledge - I've seen that chart for radiants, though I don't fully understand it. It seems like the bottom left for the "Best - Excellent", wouldn't be a good stone. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see as good indicators for cut. The one I received from JA has more greens and reds, which I would think is a good thing. I wish I could just take JA word for it if it's a good stone or not. Seems like every ASET/Idealscope they send me, comes with praising comments from their online rep. I feel overwhelmed with all this reading material and research for finding the right stone. UGH! You've been ever so helpful though - and I appreciate all the advice you've given! Thank you!

@flyingpig - Thank you for the link to the radiant. It is lovely, though a bit over my budget! Seems like finding a nice one isn't as easy finding a nice round. Though I love round diamonds, I love the elongated look of a radiant on my short fingers. They just look so elegant to me.

Finding a well cut radiant is hard. To be more precise, it is unlikely that whatever radiant cut stone you find will get approval by PS members here. We really value light return. And elongated radiant cuts are terrible in reflecting light in general by design. For me, it is the even distribution of light return and how it blends well with leaky facets that is important.
Good luck. It will be a long and rewarding journey.