Victor Canera or CBI for super ideal with VC setting

[Moos16]

Hello, longtime lurker but first-time poster here!

I have fallen in love with some of Victor Canera's designs and know that I definitely would like one of them for my engagement ring. However, his website does not list the type of stone that I want (in terms of color/carat), and I don't live near LA so I probably can't go see his stones in person. I think that if I wanted a stone within my parameters from Victor, I would need one custom cut from him, and I'm not sure how comfortable I am doing that. With the custom route, I worry that I would be tied down to a stone that checks out on paper, but for some reason I am unhappy with when I actually see it in person. I know that his stones are super ideal but they do not seem to come up on PS as often as WF/BGD/CBI do, so I'm also not sure how his stones compare to the other, more often discussed super ideal vendors.

In the alternative, I live near a jeweler where HPD/CBI diamonds could be sent for me to check out in person. HPD does list a few diamonds that are within the parameters of what I'm looking for. I imagine that it would be a lot more complicated for me to purchase a non-VC diamond and send it to him though. (Insurance? Shipping?) I'm not sure if it would be a huge hassle that isn't worth it though, as they're all super ideals anyway at the end of the day. (Right?)

What would you guys recommend: get a custom-cut stone from VC sight unseen, as I'm getting the setting from him, or buy the diamond from HPD separately and ship it to Victor for setting? I'd love to hear from CBI owners, VC stone owners, and those who have shipped their own stone to VC for a VC setting.

 

[KKJohnson]

I would confirm with VC if he will set a CBI prior to debating this because if he won't set it then that might be another deciding factor for you to consider. Having said that I don't believe you could go wrong with either as both vendors produce stunning diamonds even if you had to go custom.

How do you feel about the upgrade program of each vendor?

 

[MissGotRocks]

It is always easier to buy the stone and setting from the same vendor but it can be done the other way too. I think Victor offers a discount on the setting if you buy the stone from him. You might want to give him a call and let him know what kind of diamond you are looking for. You never know what he has in the pipeline coming his way. His ideal cut stones look really good - don't think you'd be disappointed there.

On the other hand, you can't go wrong with CBI either. You could maybe talk to them about the type of setting you are looking for and see what they could do. It doesn't hurt to ask either vendor and then you'd be sure you were making the right choice about stone and setting should you decide to use two different vendors to make your ring.

 

[AV_]

Unless you are after a seriously unusual stone, it should be possible for VC to provide & organize your inspecting the diamond before it is set, methinks. 'Custom' seem to be particular terms for diamonds difficult to source.

(guessing)

 

[chamois]

Ditto the above.....

If you do decide to go the HPD CBI route to look then you’ll be in good hands. Their upgrade policy is a plus and one of the best IMO.

What size are you looking at ?

 

[Moos16]

I would confirm with VC if he will set a CBI prior to debating this because if he won't set it then that might be another deciding factor for you to consider. Having said that I don't believe you could go wrong with either as both vendors produce stunning diamonds even if you had to go custom.

How do you feel about the upgrade program of each vendor?

I'll check with him though hopefully it won't be a problem. His website says he will set outside stones anyway. Fingers crossed!

I think they have basically the same upgrade policy (upgrade if $1 more and the original cost applies to the new diamond) but CBI has the buyback policy which sounds really nice to have. Unless there is some catastrophe I don't think I would actually use the buyback option, and I'm not sure I would use the upgrade option either... but I'd like to keep my options open in case DSS kicks in!

Ditto the above.....

If you do decide to go the HPD CBI route to look then you’ll be in good hands. Their upgrade policy is a plus and one of the best IMO.

What size are you looking at ?

Right now I think I want a 2.5 carat round H or I, but I'm not sure if I is too low. I am not very color sensitive at all and couldn't really spot the tint in an ideal (not even super ideal) I, but I worry that as time goes on, the color will be more noticeable and start to bother me.

 

[whitewave]

VC last I heard basically only works with outside stones when his volume of projects is low.

Meanwhile, HPD uses a luxe bench that does impeccable works. They do my 3 stone.

 

[kmoro]

If you’re dealing with WF, for example, they are willing to work with customer-provided settings. First, I would ask them if they can work with VC directly and source the setting for you. If not, you may be able to have the VC setting sent to them for diamond mounting.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Right now I think I want a 2.5 carat round H or I, but I'm not sure if I is too low. I am not very color sensitive at all and couldn't really spot the tint in an ideal (not even super ideal) I, but I worry that as time goes on, the color will be more noticeable and start to bother me.

This one!...
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10437

 

[chamois]

I'll check with him though hopefully it won't be a problem. His website says he will set outside stones anyway. Fingers crossed!

I think they have basically the same upgrade policy (upgrade if $1 more and the original cost applies to the new diamond) but CBI has the buyback policy which sounds really nice to have. Unless there is some catastrophe I don't think I would actually use the buyback option, and I'm not sure I would use the upgrade option either... but I'd like to keep my options open in case DSS kicks in!



Right now I think I want a 2.5 carat round H or I, but I'm not sure if I is too low. I am not very color sensitive at all and couldn't really spot the tint in an ideal (not even super ideal) I, but I worry that as time goes on, the color will be more noticeable and start to bother me.

You may even want to consider a J or K CBI to get a larger stone. I would certainly look at a few different colour options to decide on your colour tolerances. I am very happy with my K CBI.

 

[lovedogs]

Both vendors are excellent. In general, I would stick with one for both stone and setting to make things easier. HP Diamonds has an incredible high end bench, so I wouldn't hesitate to go with them for the entire piece. I adore my CBI.

 

[bludiva]

VC last I heard basically only works with outside stones when his volume of projects is low.

Meanwhile, HPD uses a luxe bench that does impeccable works. They do my 3 stone.

Victor came on here a while back to comment that they do work with outside stones depending on the setting. Some that are more intricate they use their stones only if I remember correctly.

 

[sledge]

I can understand the draw to VC's settings. Even simple designs look very, very eloquent and high quality. You do need to confirm if VC is setting outside stones. About a month or so ago he was, so I don't think it's an issue but still better safe than sorry.

What specifically are you looking for in a diamond that makes it "unique"?

I don't think anyone would deny a CBI/HPD stone would be lovely, but when you factor in a one stop shopping experience and discount on the setting when buying an in-house stone, I'd be tempted to go VC for it all.

If you are simply worried about color, then talk with VC. My guess is they can arrange to have a few stones sent your way to compare in person. Maybe to a local jeweler, or trusted appraiser, in your area.

FYI, when you narrow down a few stone selections -- let us know which ones. We can take a peek at the specs and images and confirm the awesomeness or possibly steer you a different way.

Last thoughts -- when thinking about upgrades, etc for the future don't forget to consider what selection you will have available to upgrade to. You are starting well at 2.5 carats. A future upgrade could likely include something in the 3-4 carat range. Not everyone will have a large selection of stones that size, so while you may have a great upgrade policy, you may have limited opportunities to exercise the option.

 

[Moos16]

Thanks everyone for your posts so far. I know I want a superideal or AGS000 2.5 ct round for under $35k, but I think I am flexible when it comes to color and clarity. I can also go a bit under 2.5 if it works better with my budget. I can baaarely spot the warmth in a GIA XXX I color 3 ct (like it takes me 5 minutes staring at the sides), but cannot in a GIA XXX H color 2 ct and definitely not G color. I have not seen 2.5 ct AGS000 in person in any of those colors yet.

I have been looking at this 2.5 G VC because I thought SI1 should still be pretty eyeclean but there's a big black inclusion that looks enormous when it's magnified like that lol https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104100800001-2.528-g-si1-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

 

[chamois]

Thanks everyone for your posts so far. I know I want a superideal or AGS000 2.5 ct round for under $35k, but I think I am flexible when it comes to color and clarity. I can also go a bit under 2.5 if it works better with my budget. I can baaarely spot the warmth in a GIA XXX I color 3 ct (like it takes me 5 minutes staring at the sides), but cannot in a GIA XXX H color 2 ct and definitely not G color. I have not seen 2.5 ct AGS000 in person in any of those colors yet.

I have been looking at this 2.5 G VC because I thought SI1 should still be pretty eyeclean but there's a big black inclusion that looks enormous when it's magnified like that lol https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104100800001-2.528-g-si1-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

The dark inclusions (a few) would worry me in the size of this stone. More info needed on how ‘eye clean’ this stone is.

 

[carbonfan]

As someone who has purchased diamonds from both Victor and HPD, I can attest that you will receive incredible quality and amazing customer service from either of these trusted vendors. And I can confirm that Victor does in fact set client-supplied MRB stones for the vast majority of his designs. There are a few designs that are super intricate and he reserves these for in-house stones, but this is noted on the web site for those designs. So I think you are safe there, but it is certainly less complicated to get the stone and setting from the same vendor if possible. What type of setting did you have in mind?

Also, if you are interested in the 2.528 stone, just ask Victor about the inclusion. He will give you his honest opinion and can even have another video created for you. I don't know if you are open to a stone that slightly exceeds 2.5ct, but if so, I would definitely consider this one as well... it is stunningly gorgeous and is 9mm to boot!

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104097357001-2.824-i-vs2-ideal-hearts-arrows-round

 

[sledge]

I'd also be a little concerned about the black crystal on the table of that 2.5 carat stone you linked. As already suggested, I'd reach out to VC and inquire if the stone is eye clean or not.

Also, keep in mind, there is no universal definition for "eye clean". Many vendors define it as 10" away looking at the top of the diamond with 20/20 vision and good lighting.

Depending on your visual acuity, you may want to adjust that definition. For instance, when I was searching I wanted mine eye clean 6" away from top & sides with 20/20 and good lighting. Obviously, the more strict you get, the more stones you eliminate and/or you push the price higher as you may find yourself pushing into a higher clarity level. I found myself buying a VS2 stone which I was okay with to be honest, but the stone was much smaller so the cost wasn't as much to make that decision.

In regards to color, I think you would be wise to look at some AGS stones in person. Color grading in general is very subjective as it's done by humans using a master set of stones to compare against. AGS uses master sets that GIA approves so you'd think they would be identical. However, there may be very minor differences between master sets and then again, the human element.

Clarity grading is also done by humans and subjective. For these reasons, both AGS and GIA indicate that both color and clarity should fall within 1 +/- grade if retested.

Some people on this forum believe that AGS color grading is a smidge softer than GIA. For the reasons I stated above, I am not sure I buy into that. But for those that believe it, they do so because they were snake bitten.

Again, I'd encourage you to view some AGS color graded stones and see if you come to the same conclusion. You should, but better safe than sorry on a purchase this size. Also, since you seem to have a pretty good understanding of your color sensitivity in relation to GIA grading, then you should be able to have an open conversation with either VC or HPD and say "I want no less than a GIA H" or whatever color you deem to be your cutoff limit.

A final thought -- it appears you are not the wearer. When buying my fiancee's ring, I went with an H as she did not appear to be, or have signs of being, color sensitive. I learned after proposing that she is actually very color sensitive and could easily see the tint in the H stone. Luckily for me, she is also color tolerant and not bothered by the tint. Still, for any future upgrades I will likely go F+. As I mentioned earlier, her stone is much smaller than what you are considering. Hers is a BGD Blue 0.867 H VS2. Color and clarity is normally more noticeable in larger sizes as you have more body.

So I'd strongly encourage you to consider her color and clarity sensitivities in your decision analysis.

 

[AV_]

Your impression of G, H, I is exactly how the grades are intended to work. If the setting will include YG, it may be worth considering I with YG. Then, fluorescence is another detail; it is said to bleach out near-colorless white (your impression us the last word) & it is 'glow' beyond color to me.

 

[kmoro]

Victor came on here a while back to comment that they do work with outside stones depending on the setting. Some that are more intricate they use their stones only if I remember correctly.

I’m sorry, I think I’m missing something? Why would you p;refer to ship the diamond instead of the setting? Is Victor the only one that can set a diamond into one of his settings?

 

[Moos16]

These are my top two choices right now (size 6 finger). How low in color/clarity would you guys personally go for a 2.5 superideal for either of these?

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/six-prong-pave-solitaire-with-scalloped-basket

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/the-gabriella-six-prong-solitaire

I also like pave on the prongs like in this ring below, but I have not seen rings like that before. Would they make the prongs weaker somehow or be more difficult to maintain?

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/the-collette-split-shank-solitaire

 

[mrs-b]

@Moos16 -

I've had a few of Victor's signature H&A stones, and they're stunning. Please don't ask me to explain this, because I just can't - but I've said here on PS before that Victor's signature H&A stones are my very favorite. To my eye, there is just something prettier - something more feminine - about them. I don't know what it is, but all of his stones I've had have had the same look.

Personally, I'd stay at an H or above. 2.5ct is big enough that it will show any tint if it's there, so I'd err on the side of caution. VC also has a wonderful upgrade policy, in that there's no restrictions on how much you have to upgrade by. I don't believe his buy-back is quite as good as CBI, but, overall, his policies are good.

Good luck!

 

[chamois]

Here are my thoughts....I really like the first VC setting you listed. If it were me wearing that setting though I would be worried about wearing it 24/7 in case any stone(s) fell out. With that said, I would opt for the second option you listed and be totally comfortable wearing it all the time.

As for colour, only you know your tolerances.....find out what they are (if you can) and go from there. To save money and gain size I personally would choose either a J or a high K (nearer to a J) but that is me. I have a CBI K and you would never know it is a K!!!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think the 6-prong scalloped solitaire is a very elegant setting and I like the Gabriella. I also like Victor's split shank settings, particularly with a halo. I personally would not have pave on prongs. I'd have it in a halo and on a shank, but nowhere else, and especially not on the doughnut (base of the head) because it will scratch the wedding band.

I'd personally not go lower than I color in a modern round and prefer H or higher. I prefer VS2 and higher, but I think a very clean SI1 can be a great buy. I am a little more flexible in antique diamond color, however.

 

[Moos16]

@Moos16 -

I've had a few of Victor's signature H&A stones, and they're stunning. Please don't ask me to explain this, because I just can't - but I've said here on PS before that Victor's signature H&A stones are my very favorite. To my eye, there is just something prettier - something more feminine - about them. I don't know what it is, but all of his stones I've had have had the same look.

Thank you, that makes me feel a lot better. I had noticed that for the same carat size, Victor's diamonds measured just a tiny bit smaller than CBI's so I was worried that maybe that implied something about the cut quality or appearance, but I am glad to hear that they perform well!

 

[Nicholas A]

Hi Moos16!

Our signature hearts and arrows line actually has an excellent spread to them. The allowable depth ranges are 60.3-62.0% so consumers are actually getting an excellent diameter to carat weight ratio.

We love diamonds that have a lot of fire so our preference is for crown ranges that are 34.5°-34.9° In our inventory for example, only 6 diamonds actually have a crown less the 34.4°. Other manufacturers may have more shallower crown angles from us which can have a very very effect on diameter. The difference would be really negligible though.

Ciao!

 

[Moos16]

Hi Moos16!

Our signature hearts and arrows line actually has an excellent spread to them. The allowable depth ranges are 60.3-62.0% so consumers are actually getting an excellent diameter to carat weight ratio.

We love diamonds that have a lot of fire so our preference is for crown ranges that are 34.5°-34.9° In our inventory for example, only 6 diamonds actually have a crown less the 34.4°. Other manufacturers may have more shallower crown angles from us which can have a very very effect on diameter. The difference would be really negligible though.

Ciao!

That makes sense, thanks for your post Nicholas!!!

 

[Nicholas A]

Sure thing!
I meant to say very very small effect on diameter obviously between shallow crowns and steep crowns

 

[sledge]

I was traveling and didn't get a chance to respond yesterday but @Nicholas A is spot on about the stone size being directly related to the stone proportions.

Start changing table, depth, crown angle or pavilion angle and it affects the diameter. Also it can alter a stones personality, even while staying in ideal parameters.

For instance a stone with a 58 table, shallow 34 crown and steeper 40.8 pavilion will favor a little more white light return and have a slightly larger diameter spread. Whereas a stone with a 54 table, steep 35 crown and shallow 40.6 pavilion will be a little more firey but have a slightly smaller diameter.

The above is pretty much an exaggerated difference. Most the time, especially in H&A stones like VC and CBI the proportions will be closer and harder to discern a difference.

I would need to see the proportions of each stone where you noticed the difference but I think you are talking negligible differences. In regards to diameter, it takes approx 0.20mm (about 1/128th inch) before human eyes can detect the variance and then only in a side by side comparison.

Many times we see someone worry about 6.02 x 6.04 vs 6.07 x 6.09. That is 0.05 difference and not even detectable to the human eye.

 

[Mcgregor]

Less than a year ago mrs-b offered a VC diamond for sale. I had already fallen in love with VC’s Orchid Six Prong Trilogy Setting with Side Pears. Mrs-b was heading to LA the following week and most graciously offered to drop the diamond off at VC to be set. I, in turn, emailed VC and spoke to both Nicholas and VC regarding what I wanted. The ring was returned in a very timely fashion and the workmanship on the ring was, and is, exquisite. The diamond is exemplary, little metal shows due to the fine craftsmanship and the prongs are gorgeous! Unlike so many PS’s, I have had no DSS. I wear this ring daily and just love having it on my finger.
I admit to never having seen a CBI in person, so I cannot comment on CBI.

 

[WinkHPD]

We love diamonds that have a lot of fire so our preference is for crown ranges that are 34.5°-34.9° In our inventory for example, only 6 diamonds actually have a crown less the 34.4°.

Hello Nicholas.

First of all, welcome to Pricescope.

Since CBI is mentioned in this thread I wanted to add relevant information to your comments above. That crown height and fire correlation comes from a world of 2D proportions. While it’s a good century-old rule of thumb in the big picture, it doesn’t consider the possibility of modern 3D crafting goals which can boost fire potential regardless of such an average. CBI’s specific fire proposition involves all 57 facets. So it’s the same diamond to diamond, not confined to one number.

If you or any readers are interested in the science, please see this explanation by John Pollard. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-fire.242606/#post-4388614

We are living in a wonderful world of capabilities. There is so much possible within a diamond that report numbers cannot capture what’s happening in 3D. Of course as I imagine you will agree, few producers truly take advantage of those capabilities.

To that end I firmly believe there is no substitute for getting the actual diamond in your hands and making a tour of in-person comparisons to see what speaks to you. Here also, I imagine we agree.

Wink