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Unheated Sapphire and Jeweler's Heat?

corundum_conundrum

Shiny_Rock
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I just took an unheated sapphire ring to a local jeweler to have prongs re-tipped. He said that sapphires could withstand the heat of a jeweler's torch so it wouldn't need to be unmounted....

However, this is an unheated sapphire. Does that make a difference in terms of jeweler's heat? Should I have him unmount it? My googling has said that sapphires can withstand jeweler's heat, but I've not found anything about how that affects an unheated sapphire. Will the jeweler's torch turn it into a heated sapphire, or is the heat not high enough?

Thanks for any expert knowledge!
 

corundum_conundrum

Shiny_Rock
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I'm not an expert, so hopefully others will chime in, but until then here is a link to a very good article on the subject:
https://www.ganoksin.com/article/hard-facts-sapphires-rubies/

Thanks, I saw that article too--and frankly a few more that were even more alarmist.

I had a tournamaline cracked by a local jeweler in Chicago and he had it recut to try to hide it. Ever since then, I've been pretty paranoid about local jewelers.

I think I'm going to cancel the order and send it off for repairs to someone with more expertise in Colored Stones.
 

Bron357

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My understanding is that the heat of the jewellers torch if butane isn’t hot enough or for long enough to turn an unheated sapphire into a heated sapphire. What is of more concern is inherent flaws in the stone that might expand due to heat. I know this is definitely an issue with Emeralds.
These days though the better jewellers are using lasers, that doesn’t pose the same risks or issues as the heat is just on the spot where they aim.
Though not all jewellers have a laser in the kit bag, so that’s why it’s better to go with a more experienced jeweller even if more expensive due to the more specialized equipment they have.
Opals also must be removed from their settings before using a jewellers torch.
 

lmyracle

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I had my unheated sapphire re-tipped a few weeks ago. The jeweler used a laser and all went well. I was mostly concerned with someone trying to swap out my sapphire, but luckily found a great jeweler. I may have overpaid (350 for 4 longer/thicker prongs?) but he seemed super knowledgeable. (I should also mention I talked to 3 different jewelers before I decided to go with him and they all thought I paid 3x what I did for my sapphire -- so yay -- I give that credit to fellow PSrs that helped me with my purchase.)
 

corundum_conundrum

Shiny_Rock
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My understanding is that the heat of the jewellers torch if butane isn’t hot enough or for long enough to turn an unheated sapphire into a heated sapphire. What is of more concern is inherent flaws in the stone that might expand due to heat. I know this is definitely an issue with Emeralds.
These days though the better jewellers are using lasers, that doesn’t pose the same risks or issues as the heat is just on the spot where they aim.
Though not all jewellers have a laser in the kit bag, so that’s why it’s better to go with a more experienced jeweller even if more expensive due to the more specialized equipment they have.
Opals also must be removed from their settings before using a jewellers torch.

This Jeweler did say he planned to look at it more closely for inclusions to make sure the heat wouldn't "burst a crystal" or anything like that. Still, it seems if some disruption of inclusions is a risk, it's not worth subjecting it to the kind of heat. Obviously a heated sapphire has already been subjected to crystal bursting temps, so that's less of a risk with a heated stone, I'd think.

I'm just going to cancel the order. The Jeweler seemed nice, but I'm nervous about his expertise with CS.
 

MollyMalone

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Honestly, I nowadays would only use -- for any kind of repair or resizing job -- a repair bench that employs a laser welder. Granted, I live in NYC where laser welders are not "exotic." But there are doubtlessly benches in the Chicago metro area that have made the investment in the equipment & training. Lester Lampert is the jeweler with an on-site bench that a Chicago friend of mine suggests you consider:
https://lesterlampert.com/jewelry-repair/
https://lesterlampert.com/field-museum-project/
https://www.yelp.com/biz/lester-lampert-chicago
 

corundum_conundrum

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Honestly, I nowadays would only use -- for any kind of repair or resizing job -- a repair bench that employs a laser welder. Granted, I live in NYC where laser welders are not "exotic." But there are doubtlessly benches in the Chicago metro area that have made the investment in the equipment & training. Lester Lampert is the jeweler with an on-site bench that a Chicago friend of mine suggests you consider:
https://lesterlampert.com/jewelry-repair/
https://lesterlampert.com/field-museum-project/
https://www.yelp.com/biz/lester-lampert-chicago

Thanks for the specific recommendation, Molly. If I still lived in Chicago I would definitely check them out, and may still check them out as I often have to travel to Chicago for work.

Your post also got me thinking about lasers, and I was able to search for laser jewelry repair in my area, and was able to find something in small city 45 minutes away. I'll be calling them tomorrow (right after I pick up my ring from my nice, but old-fashioned jeweler).
 

chrono

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Can't speak highly enough of benches that use lasers. It can do much more and with fewer risks.
 

corundum_conundrum

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I called 2 places with lasers near me. One told me they would still have to remove the stone, since even the laser poses risk. The other place seemed to think it could be left set.

Another place I called didn't have a laser, but said sapphire should never be subjected to a Jeweler's torch.

And I thought lapidaries disagreed about technique!
 
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MissyBeaucoup

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My local jeweler resized a ring for me using a laser and didn’t have to remove the stone first. It is an unheated sapphire with a large inclusion. If I understood right, the ring is water-cooled while it is being worked on.
 

corundum_conundrum

Shiny_Rock
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I dropped the stone off with a jeweler with a laser welder with the understanding that the laser was to be used to retip the prongs.

I got a call today saying their bench was not comfortable using the laser to retip the prongs for fear of damaging the stone. They would have to unmount the stone.

That makes two benches in my area who are unwilling to use their laser without first unmounting the stone.

My options now are to: 1) unmount the stone to fix the prongs or 2) try to mail out the stone to someone comfortable enough with a laser to do the work, if anyone knows any jewelers who do work by mail. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm leaning toward unmounting at this point.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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I dropped the stone off with a jeweler with a laser welder with the understanding that the laser was to be used to retip the prongs.
I got a call today saying their bench was not comfortable using the laser to retip the prongs for fear of damaging the stone. They would have to unmount the stone.
That makes two benches in my area who are unwilling to use their laser without first unmounting the stone.
My options now are to: 1) unmount the stone to fix the prongs or 2) try to mail out the stone to someone comfortable enough with a laser to do the work, if anyone knows any jewelers who do work by mail. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'm leaning toward unmounting at this point.
Since you're not aiming to keep the prongs "as is" & because the latest bench with a laser welder has examined the stone in person & opined that it's best to remove the sapphire, I too would be inclined to go with their assessment. The nature of whatever inclusions there are may be giving them pause (by any chance, is this a yellow sapphire -- that could compound their hesitancy).
 

chrono

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Second the removal of the sapphire before starting work.
 

corundum_conundrum

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Since you're not aiming to keep the prongs "as is" & because the latest bench with a laser welder has examined the stone in person & opined that it's best to remove the sapphire, I too would be inclined to go with their assessment. The nature of whatever inclusions there are may be giving them pause (by any chance, is this a yellow sapphire -- that could compound their hesitancy).

The stone is a strong color shifter--blue to purple. There's some silk lines--one you see with the naked eye, but not at arm's length.

The Bench who examined it said that the laser would be too risky because "one wrong move and the laser could reflect off the metal and shatter the stone." There was no specific mention of inclusions.

The other laser welder (recommended to me as the premier jeweler in the area) told me over the phone they have had the laser for ten years. Without examining the stone, they told me that they would never use a laser without unmounting a sapphire. They had a similar line as the new jeweler: "one false move and it will shatter."

I guess there's some serious hesitancy about using lasers for repairs near sapphire in my area.

I'm going to have the original, local jeweler unmount the stone to fix the prongs. Thanks for the advice all.
 

Stone Hunter

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Interesting points. Good luck with the "reset." I am always a bit nervous about my colored stones being worked on. So I understand why you checked things out with so many jewelers.
 

corundum_conundrum

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Oof. It went quite poorly. I really wish I had waited until the next time I went to Chicago and used someone comfortable with a laser. Trust your instincts, folks.

The stone used to be set east-west as it is slightly off-square. My local jeweler reset it North-South without consulting me. I don't think he realized it's not perfectly square.

The split claw prongs were totally botched, and now look more like fish tails. They're also quite uneven in length and width.

The jeweler is willing to fix the orientation, but with the quality of work this low, I'm not sure I want them to work on it anymore. I'm thinking of asking for a partial refund to put toward whoever I have fix this.
 

MakingTheGrade

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Ugh. So sorry to hear. Yeah I agree with the partial refund and finding someone who has the skill level you need.
 

2Neezers

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Sorry to hear it didn’t go well. I might suggest reaching out to David Klass to see if he works with a bench that could safely fix the ring for you. I have seen pics of a couple of restorations he has done here that looked fantastic. The ring would have to be shipped back and forth, but it might be worth it.
 

corundum_conundrum

Shiny_Rock
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Sorry to hear it didn’t go well. I might suggest reaching out to David Klass to see if he works with a bench that could safely fix the ring for you. I have seen pics of a couple of restorations he has done here that looked fantastic. The ring would have to be shipped back and forth, but it might be worth it.

Thanks for the tip. I'll price it out and see what it would be.
 
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