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Need Help From Those With Great Colour Perception..2 ACA's

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi Everyone,
I recently upgraded my 2.23 J Si-1 ACA to a 2.72 S1-1 ACA. This was back in the late summer. Projects got delayed, time passed & I only just picked up my ring 2 weeks ago. My concerns with the ACA's are not performance, they are outstanding stones. My concern is color. When I initially received the assessment of the 2.72, I was told it had yellow brown body tint but very minimal & not an issue. It was the stone that faced up whiter than the other 2.653 J VS2 (yellow body colour) I had also been considering. Here is the WF link to that stone..
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018663.htm
I had videos taken & observed them for hours. I kept questioning the amount of brown tint. I was repeatedly assured, the 2.72 was whiter as was also confirmed by Bryan himself. When I picked up my ring, I was taken aback at how much brown I was seeing! I never expected it considering I was told it faces up very white. This is now my ** 7th ** J colour stone. I have had 3 GIA ones & 4 AGS ones. The AGS 2.23 SI J had medium fluoro & was the whitest J I had ever owned. I have never owned a stone with yellow brown body tint. I have avoided anything with brown in it. Again, I was assured there was very minimal brown hue. Also to note, it seemed that almost every stone I had inquired about in their inventory had a yellow brown body colour. I'm posting because I see a difference & unless you like brown, be cautious. This 2.72 is sparkly & gorgeous otherwise & would absolutely look stunning in a rose or yellow gold setting. Here are some pics...please excuse the dry hands. We've been having extremely cold weather here. No amount of lotion has been working.
Stones I had to compare to...
SBS_2.653-2.725.jpg

TRAY_2.653-2.725.jpg
Face On Pics 2.725 J SI ( with 2.78 I VS2).jpg
2.725 J SI Comparison (with 2.786 I VS2).jpg

Here is my ring & the brown is very obvious to me.
IMG_3788.jpg
IMG_3787.jpg
IMG_3786.jpg
IMG_3785.jpg

Do you see the brown hue in the stone? The centre of the stone is dark all the time. No matter how many types of lighting I've tried taking it into. I zero in on the centre, & I see brown. I see it on the sides as well, straight on & when I tilt it. What are your opinions? For the record, I had on black clothes & have dark hair but this is not related to that or my camera lens.

This brings me to the stone I have on reserve at the moment. A 2.88 J VS-2, a yellow body color stone. It's quite a jump to go up to but I would because of the colour. Whiteflash has had, in my opinion, a rather dismal amount of stock in this size range. Here is the link to the new stone. It's a bit bigger than the 2.72 & I was assured by Amy at David Klass the new stone can be accommodated into the new setting.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4091552.htm
WF said it was a solid J & was graded appropriately. I've started getting paranoid that what if AGS is softer than GIA when grading colours. They use GIA masters so I don't think this is true but as I said, I'm paranoid now. I am not able to have the stone shipped locally.
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
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Here are some comparison shots of some diamonds WF had in stock.
SBS_2.88-2.94.jpg
TRAY_2.88J VS2 -2.94 J SI1.jpg
SBS_2.93 I VS2 -2.88 J VS2 .jpg
2.93 I VS2 -2.88 J VS2.jpg
2.88ct_2.786ct_SBS.jpg
2.88ct_2.786ct_TRAY.jpg
** this last picture is horrible. How can I make any assertion from this?** This 2.78 I VS2 was also one of the stones compared to the 2.72 which you'll find above.
The 2.94 J stone has been confirmed to have a Yellow Brown body tone. The 2.88 is a solid J. WF also said that the 2.78 I VS was a touch whiter but the J was comparable/ close to the I.
Here is the link to that 2.78 I VS...
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022278.htm

I don't really know what I'm seeing now & I'm full of self doubt. This will probably be my last upgrade unless the next stone is an Expert Selection I SI-2 eye clean with medium fluoro. I probably should not hold my breath! The 2.88 is eye clean as is the 2.72.

Opinions on this one?

The ring is beautiful & I will start a thread soon about it if I change my stone or not. DK did a great job & I love it. I had to sell my other ring, sadly, because the 7.72 would not fit right.

Judy
 
Last edited:

Nikki1415

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I see the brown tint but I think it looks nice. If it bothers you then you should upgrade. I'm color sensitive but it never bothers me as long as the diamond performs well.
 

coda72

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From your pics, your stone does seem to have a brown tint. I know you have had many J stones, but I think once you get to that color, there’s likely to be more variability between stones. I have a J stone as well, and mine has a distinct yellow tone in certain lighting, so I know I will be upgrading the color at some point. The new J you picked out looks like it will have less brown tone, so I would go for that if I were you. If the J color continues to bother you, you might have to upgrade to an I or even an H at a certain point.
 

kmoro

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Just a couple of thoughts on your post ...

Brown tint is usually less desirable than yellow tint because it can make the diamond look slightly darker. Personally, I prefer the look of the brown tint ...have no idea why, just personal preference. And at J, it’s still a very white diamond ... however, you do say the diamond looks darker to you, and that’s not a very positive comment when it comes to a diamond.

It is possible that the fluorescence in the 2.23 was helping it face up whiter. Also, body colour is more noticeable in larger stones, so you may notice more if it in any of the larger diamonds that you’re looking at. If it’s really bothering you, all I can do is make the dreaded suggestion that you go down in size *gasp* or clarity so that you can go up in colour.

If slight tint has never bothered you enough to go up from J color before, maybe you just need to make friends with the new shade? It’s very pretty, imo.

I think your new diamond is gorgeous!!!
 

OcnGypZ

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There are three basic body "tints" for diamonds: yellow, brown and gray. Gray is the least desirable. If you have three J diamonds let's say - all identical in cut, clarity, carat - but three different tints... the yellow tint stone will price more expensive than the brown tinted stone; the gray tinted, least expensive. Fluorescence will help a diamond face up whiter.
 

ccuheartnurse

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Hi All,
Thanks for weighing in. I think my last J, the 2.23 could have been coincidental it was whiter because of the fluoro or simply the material was whiter. I think it was the fluoro myself. I've had 3 J's in the 2's range but never had any with a brown tint. The stone performs as it should, & is off the charts sparkly.If had used rose gold instead of platinum, I wouldn't have a thread to start. It's beautiful. It's not "very slightly tinted" if people can see it clearly on the screen. Clearly it's a lesson. Perhaps the new stone with a slightly larger table, although not by much & longer pavilion mains might be better.

Coda72, I had hoped to upgrade colour as well. But inventory has been really really limited. WF cannot tell you what my be coming available nor do they custom cut anything past I VS-2. I have been watching & I don't remember the last time they had something in the 2.70's-2.80's in an I, SI-1. I think it's easy to tell those buying their 1st WF stone how easy it is to upgrade but if they don't have stones in their inventory to do so at a reasonable price point, the chances of upgrading are pretty slim. My rep said the 2.88 isn't much different than the 2.78 I VS2. I've also helped a lot of friends buy I's, maybe 8-9 now. I'd be happy to stop at an I if I could find one under $29K at WF.

Kmoro, you made me chuckle (in a good way). I met up with another long time Pricescoper last Friday for tea & she saw the tint right away. She had the same tortured look I did in that she loved the setting but saw the brown tint right away. I told her I only wanted to meet up with her to use her eyes. LOL She had had several K's & has since been upgrading colour. She said her last K was whiter than my stone. I may have to make friends with this one. She said something similar. She said "why not live with it for a few mths & see how you feel". 2 things, inventory is very sporadic & once you feel a certain way about the stone, it's very hard to change your viewpoint.

OcyGypZ, all what you say is true. I was told there was very slight tint. From what I was advised, I should not see (in my mind) the brown so clearly.

Here is a video Jonathan did a few years ago. I know he says, maybe 1/2 way, or 3/4 of the way in that the yellower stone will face up whiter. For those that have not seen it, you should watch it.

 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Obviously I'm not helpful, because I think your current stone is gorgeous, and I only see a slight body color in it. I think any of the other options would be great. The 2.88 looks pretty white to me, but again I'm not color sensitive so take my thoughts with a grain of salt!
 

CareBear

Brilliant_Rock
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I would go with the 2.88 J VS2. It looks very 'bright' from the side profile. Even though your current stone might look less tinted, it does appear 'darker'. I apologize for the lack of better wording.:P2
 

HappyNewLife

Ideal_Rock
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I feel like your current stone did face up whiter than the other Js, but once it was put into your setting it does look brown. strange!

I'd probably go with the 2.78I, if you can swing it, or the 2.88J.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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First off, I’m sorry that you’re not thrilled with your new diamond, @ccuheartnurse (hugs)

I kind of wonder if the setting makes the appearance of the tint more pronounced vs. when it was loose; hard to tell how much light is entering the diamond from the sides.

Also, I’m not a color sensitive person myself (I can see it, but it doesn’t bother me), but one thing that did catch my eye and created a hypothesis which the angles/light return experts would need to weigh in on is this:
56BF14B7-45DD-4E96-806A-D0DD84327A4B.jpeg

I can see the tint in the girdle of the 2.72 pretty clearly in the above pic, and girdles create reflections in the lower 1/3 of the diamond when viewing them from the side. Is it possible that: 1) a thicker girdle pronounces color moreso in the lower pavilion than a thinner girdle?; and/or, 2) the girdle reflection becomes more pronounced/visible face-up as well when there is a brown (vs. yellow) tint ... like it ‘consolidates’ the color to that lower section making it more visible face-up?
 

ac117

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I wouldn't be okay with the brown tint (which I could clearly see from your pics and from WF's pics). These are usually discounted in the market and it surprises me that WF is accepting them in their inventory, even if just "slight." If it bothers you now, it always will so I would change it out. As you mentioned, the 2.94 J SI1 is also brown so that one is out so I'd either go for the 2.88 J which at least will have yellow body color and not brown or the 2.78 I if they could provide you with a better profile picture [and if it's not cost prohibitive] since it would also fit your setting a bit better than the 2.88.

Your new setting is gorgeous, btw!
 

tigertales

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380
Wow. This is the third or fourth thread recently where there has been a problem with WF colors.
I have to run, so can't look these up for you, but just search bar "Whiteflash".

That "J" is very tinted. You have every right to be disappointed. No amount of cut or fluorescence will mask that.

Please, make a change while you can, your happiness is important in such a major investment.
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
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The brown isn’t obvious to me.. but I’m not the wearer. You are and you have to be happy with it. If the 2.88 is an option, I’d take it. The pictures show it being very bright. Your setting is gorgeous and you should look down and smile when you see it not wince and wish the diamond was a different colour
 

Karl_K

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Has the ring been professionally steam cleaned?
 

bludiva

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I see a brown tone vs the more yellow tone of the other stone but both are subtle. I think it's pretty but of course it is what you think that matters. Can whiteflash maybe alert you when a stone comes in at the same diameter so you can swap it out? It just has to be 1$ more, right?
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi Everyone,
Thank you for taking time out to post. I know life can be busy. In the real world, my friends would think I'm insane.

lovedogs, I appreciate your opinion. I didn't know how else to word the thread title last night but I appreciate all eyes checking it out, amateur to expert. LOL

CareBear, thanks. I went with the layman terms "darker" too. LOL

HappyNewLife, I didn't expect it to be so tinted in the setting. The 2.72 is absolutely a sparkle fest when the hand is in motion which is why I'm at loss of what to do. The 2.78 I is above my ceiling. :( My rep told me that the 2.78 I is JUST noticeably whiter than the 2.88 J.

the_mother_thing, thank you for your support. I questioned the girdle of the 2.72 in that picture & was told it was camera reflection. I questioned that again & I didn't get the answers I had been seeking. I was told that emphatically that the 2.72 faced up whiter than the 2.65 I had also been evaluating, in pictures 1 & 2. Thank you for the mock up, truly, that is exactly where the issues are with the stone.

ac117, the last picture comparing to the 2.78 is horrible. It's like they don't even want to try anymore. This is what I was told after many many emails questioning the "very slight brown tint". This is a direct quote from one of my emails. This is in relation to comparing the 2.65 J VS to the 2.72 J SI.
" I have studied these two stones carefully side by side and the J SI 1 looks slightly whiter to me, both from face-up and from side view. And it is a very nice SI 1. While there may technically be a touch of brown in the body color, there is no brown visual impact to the stone whatsoever". I was at a loss when I opened the box. Thank you for the compliment of my ring. DK did a great job.

tigertales, I'm not sure what is going on. The tint isn't ugly per say. It is a gorgeously cut stone & has a soft brown hue which in rose gold would be a killer looking ring. It's just not in my setting. I'll have to post some pics of my setting but I think it's set ok. The girdle is just above the rim so it's not too crowded.

foxinsox, thank you. You are right & it's the same thing we tell posters every day. If something bugs you now it will always bug you. I had mentioned to WF the day after receiving my ring that I would try living with it for a while, I think I even said 6 mths. But then Friday I noticed the 2.88 came available & I couldn't type fast enough to get on live chat to reserve it. But I still question my eyes. This is the reason for the thread. Can other see what I see? Thank you for your support.

I'll try to take some better pictures of my ring. I have, as you can see, horrifically dry skin & the darn super cold weather isn't helping. It is overcast & snowing today. As soon as I can get some decent lighting, I'll take some. I'll start a thread with DK's glamour pics he sent me. :love:
 

bludiva

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I missed the part about the potential replacement....I agree with what you said above, if it bothers you this much now it will likely continue to bug you. Hope the one you have on hold works out!
 

ccuheartnurse

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Karl_K, it came right from David Klass & had only worn the ring 3x when I took the pics. I went to the mall specifically to check it under the lighting there. It's been snowing like a BLEEEP here & getting out to the jewellers whom I know, is a bit far to go. I have also soaked it like I do my other things which come out sparkly clean. But good advice, I'll do it & see if that helps. There could be something coated on the bottom of the pavilion.

bludiva, yes, I was hoping to stick to the size of my stone. The problem is lack of inventory. I'm sure at some point there will be another 2.75 J stone pop up but will it be over budget, higher clarity, or yet, another yellow brown stone. I don't want to have to check inventory all the time. I do fill out the Diamond Request forms but I didn't get a notice the 2.88 was avail. I just happened to check. My rep said it was because it didn't fall within my budget range but I set it at $30K. Wouldn't it be awesome if a 2.75 I SI 1 with med. fluoro would pop up. LOL I'd buy a dozen lottery tickets thats for sure! LOL

Edited to add: DK said the 2.88 will fit into my setting. As per Amy, she said she would make it work. :)
 

kmoro

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Karl_K, it came right from David Klass & had only worn the ring 3x when I took the pics. I went to the mall specifically to check it under the lighting there. It's been snowing like a BLEEEP here & getting out to the jewellers whom I know, is a bit far to go. I have also soaked it like I do my other things which come out sparkly clean. But good advice, I'll do it & see if that helps. There could be something coated on the bottom of the pavilion.

bludiva, yes, I was hoping to stick to the size of my stone. The problem is lack of inventory. I'm sure at some point there will be another 2.75 J stone pop up but will it be over budget, higher clarity, or yet, another yellow brown stone. I don't want to have to check inventory all the time. I do fill out the Diamond Request forms but I didn't get a notice the 2.88 was avail. I just happened to check. My rep said it was because it didn't fall within my budget range but I set it at $30K. Wouldn't it be awesome if a 2.75 I SI 1 with med. fluoro would pop up. LOL I'd buy a dozen lottery tickets thats for sure! LOL

Edited to add: DK said the 2.88 will fit into my setting. As per Amy, she said she would make it work. :)

I do hope you find one with fluorescence. I think that with the larger body size, you’re going to notice any tint a bit more ... and maybe your eyes don’t pick up on the yellow tint as much as the brown. I’m afraid that going from J to J to J to J without fluorescence in that size range will only yield the same result. Any chance you can bite that proverbial bullet, up your budget or go smaller, and get a higher colour?

Wishing you all the diamond search luck!
 

ccuheartnurse

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ceg, thank you for the offer! I will generously accept. :kiss2:

Kmoro, I've been looking & there isn't anything that I like. The 2.78 has been confirmed to be marginally whiter than the 2.88 so that's a no for me & the next stone up from there is well into the $30's. Add the dollar exchange & I'm looking at a whopping number to go up just a touch. I'm in a quandary because it's do I go for the 2.88 go or wait it out. If I go for a higher colour, I'm going to pay more than the 2.88. Maybe it's a win win. Also to say, I'd be happy with an I stone in the 2.65 range.
 

Dreamer_D

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I wonder, is it possible for you to fly out to select your replacement stone? Then you could lay eyes on it and be sure... Just a thought. And maybe in the grand scheme not a big expense for the peace of mind.
 

ccuheartnurse

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Hi Dreamer, I wish I could but my health is a bit iffy right now. What you say is the most logical & intelligent way to go about this. I had mentioned to my rep I would consider sending the stone to an independent appraiser but no confirmation was given if that was an option. The most I could do is make sure I upgrade, have the new stone set, then have it sent as soon as it's ready.
 

Texas Leaguer

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Hi Dreamer, I wish I could but my health is a bit iffy right now. What you say is the most logical & intelligent way to go about this. I had mentioned to my rep I would consider sending the stone to an independent appraiser but no confirmation was given if that was an option. The most I could do is make sure I upgrade, have the new stone set, then have it sent as soon as it's ready.
@ccuheartnurse,
Yes, it is possible to send a diamond to an independent appraiser for you if you are not able to get comfortable with the information, images, and various assessments of our team of gemologists. We are committed to continuing to provide you with our collective best efforts to make your trade-up everything that you desire.

I think the opportunity to have @ceg put eyes on the prize for you is great and we will continue to hold the stone off the market until she has had a chance to do that. Hopefully, her assessment will help you decide if this stone is for you.
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi Bryan,
Thank you for the information. I just received 2 images comparing the 2.88 J with the 2.78 I which I find ** very ** helpful.

SBS_2.88-2.786.jpg-2.jpg TRAY_2.88-2.786.jpg-2.jpg

These are the same stones in pictures 13 & 14 from the top.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
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Some things to keep in mind in this discussion:
The vast majority of diamonds in the normal range D-Z have body colors in the yellows and browns. Often a combination. The labs do not even attempt to identify the hue in the colorless and near colorless range. There are differing opinions among experts as to which is preferable. Many in the trade feel that diamonds in the brown tones face up whiter than the same color grade with yellow body color. That suggests that there is a taste factor involved. Having a preference for one over the other is not wrong, but it does sometimes limit options.

Dedicated imaging can be helpful in enabling shoppers discern these subtle differences if they are considered important. It certainly seems logical that the distinctions would become more important the closer you get to the end of the near colorless range.

But the thing about photography is that many variables are introduced that can impact our ability to make meaningful distinctions of this nature. Even professional level photos taken in controlled lighting are subject to significant variables. When it comes to smart phone cameras in real life situations, the variables grow by orders of magnitude. The lighting, things reflecting in the environment, even the color of an iphone case can dramatically alter the look of a diamond in that moment.
 

HappyNewLife

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I have a totally bizarre question for you. Do you see this brown tint with your eyes? I know, this sounds stupid, but hear me out. In the photos at the verrrrrrry top, the diamond doesn't look brown to me. It looks whiter than it's friends. Is it possible that you're seeing brown only in photos because of the color of your phone case, or are you also noticing the same effect with your eyes? I ask because you didn't say in your post (I don't think), and because this happened to me.

My gold colored phone case made all my photos look brown/yellow, while my eyes saw a white diamond (I have an "I" ACA, 2.937ct). See below. I'm sure this is a longshot, and I'm just not seeing the brown tint in the WF photos because I'm not as color sensitive, but thought I'd try.

comparison.jpg
 

Gussie

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I didn't think I was that color sensitive but I see the brown in the wf photos. But to me it looks a bit pinkish brown. In the first set of 3 stones (face up), the one on the far right has a pink hue that I believe is due to the brown body color.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I didn't think I was that color sensitive but I see the brown in the wf photos. But to me it looks a bit pinkish brown. In the first set of 3 stones (face up), the one on the far right has a pink hue that I believe is due to the brown body color.
The 2.72, right? The ones I see *some* tint in (but that's only when I'm really trying to find it), are the 2.72 and 2.948.
 
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