My search for a "flaming red" CS

[lovedogs]

Hi All,
In the course of searching for moonstone and looking at stuff from Myanmar/Sri Lanka/Burma, I stumbled across bright red, almost glowing, spinels. I immediately fell in love.

For reference, here are my dream stones (which are over 2x more expensive than the most expensive one I'm considering below):




I need to stick to a reasonable budget, but there are a few options I'm considering:

1. https://youtu.be/kIccRogv4EQ (1.4ct, $650)


2-3. The first or third stone below. Stone 1 is 1.3ct, $500, and stone 3 is 1.64, $750)




4-5. One of the two below. The one on the left is 2ct, $500 (because inclusions on the pavilion that won't show when set). One on the right is 1ct, $250.

EDIT: The seller of 4-5 is awesome and helpful with my questions. He said that the brightness of stone 5 is closest to my "ideal" but the color/saturation of stone 4 is closer to my "ideal". I trust him, so wanted to add that.
4-5.


So the question is: which of these (if any) should I buy, or should I save for my "dream" stones, even though I could buy one of the above AND set it (and still have $ leftover) for the price of the "ideal" stone.

 

[Arcadian]

save for the stone you want (but you probably knew I'd say that...lol)

 

[Burmesedaze]

Ditto Arcadian

 

[voce]

What makes your dream stone your dream stone over the others? Is it size, or color?

I think after you purchase a more budget spinel you might find yourself satisfied with a smaller size, but if the color is not what you wanted, then you'll be reaching for your purse again for a better stone, whenever you can afford one again.

I think based off of what is available on this thread, I would go for #2 or #3, since #1 is too purplish for me to call that a flaming red, and #4 and #5 look possibly grayish, though it may just be the particular picture and/or zoom. I would ask for hand pics for 4 and 5 in daylight, afternoon shade, which would give them a chance to show off their color in the best possible lighting.

 

[lovedogs]

@voce it's not the size that makes the really expensive one so desirable--I'm pretty sure it's 1.6ct or somewhere around there. It's how RED it is, and how it kind of internally glows....it's hard to explain exactly. I think maybe it's tone? I'm very bad with color terms haha.

 

[suzanne2]

I also fell in love with the flame spinels. They are gorgeous. But I couldn't afford the size I wanted so now I have 6 teeny tiny ones (and some rough lol). Save for the stone you want.

 

[voce]

@lovedogs I was reading a preview of Richard Wise's book The Secrets of the Gem Trade, and I'm pretty sure the factor you're talking about is what he calls the 4th C--Crystal, not Carat, since size does not really factor into the beauty of a gemstone. Crystal is how much the gem is like "fine water" as different connoisseurs and traders have called it over the centuries. It is different from clarity, because you can have a stone free of eye visible inclusions that does not glow, and you can have a stone with inclusions that does glow. I think that Wild Fish Gems separates rubies based off of this idea, into the "mild" and the "wild".

I don't think the internal glow has to do with the tone of the color, as the hue of #2 and #3 look very pure red to me, yet does not have the same appeal as your dream stone. If you are still going to be thinking about your dream stone even after a more budget purchase, as we think you will, you are better off pocketing your money to save up for your dream stone, a real show piece.

Myself, I plan to save up for a glowy paraiba, and I just don't think a copper bearing tourmaline from Africa will do it. The glow is just not the same, even in the pictures. I would be disappointed with a budget purchase if I have a specific internal glow in mind that I want in a gemstone.

 

[Bron357]

Go for your dream gem.
As someone who has bought the “almost as good” ring and then totally regretted it and selling the ring (at a loss) to then eventually buy the one I wanted all along, you won’t be happy.
Someone was selling a nice Ruby for $999 on Loupe Troop, have you had a look at that?

 

[Bluegemz]

Good luck @lovedogs ! Looking forward to seeing what you do with it!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

In the 3rd picture - the prices surprise me. Usually those colors (if the picture is accurate) are much more expensive.

 

[lovedogs]

@LisaRN The 3rd pic with the 3 stones? I was also a bit surprised, but this appears to be someone who deals in spinels and jewelry in the region.

 

[Bron357]

Hmm, the lovely one on Loupe Troop is a great size, 1.5 or so, but maybe too pink for your taste. My little one, just over a carat is probably a better red colour. Colour is so tricky isn’t it. But if that spinel calls to you, I would bite the bullet and grab it.
Otherwise you will regret it.
On a different note, but I was in love with a particular pattern antique Royal Doulton coffee set. I didn’t buy it on either of the 2 occasions I saw it for sale. That was over 30 years ago and I have never seen another set since.

 

[voce]

@LisaRN The 3rd pic with the 3 stones? I was also a bit surprised, but this appears to be someone who deals in spinels and jewelry in the region.

If you are a gemstone "investor", it wouldn't hurt to pick these up to sell for thousands more years down the line. However, I still think you should wait for your dream stone to enjoy for yourself.

@Bron357 which lovely one on Loupe Troop are you talking about? I looked (searching "spinel") but couldn't find it.

 

[Bron357]

If you are a gemstone "investor", it wouldn't hurt to pick these up to sell for thousands more years down the line. However, I still think you should wait for your dream stone to enjoy for yourself.

@Bron357 which lovely one on Loupe Troop are you talking about? I looked (searching "spinel") but couldn't find it.

It’s actually an unheated ruby, 1.8 carats with GIA report. Total bargain in my book, though it’s more to the “pink” tone than pure red. It’s in “loose gems”, 2nd page in.

 

[voce]

@Bron357 I was admiring the one you had. The color is sensational and looks like Mogok, but I don't suppose you have tested it for origin?

 

[Bron357]

@Bron357 I was admiring the one you had. The color is sensational and looks like Mogok, but I don't suppose you have tested it for origin?

Here in Australia they don’t “test” for origin, they think you’re weird for even wanting a lab report. In my somewhat educated opinion it is Burmese and unheated, this little one obliges by having nice wee inclusions that are only attributed to Burmese rubies. It’s also an old gem, it has a few little nibbles on the girdle, so I’d say harvested from a piece of jewellery.
One of the (many many) gems from my treasure trove.

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice! I'm going to bite the bullet and go for the one I really want. That way I won't have regrets later. You are all much wiser than I am

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice! I'm going to bite the bullet and go for the one I really want. That way I won't have regrets later. You are all much wiser than I am

Omg please post pics when you finish the transaction!

Hehe I'm someone who understands and tries to live by the concept of getting the most economical stone/setting for the situation but sometimes you just gotta buy what thrills you when it feels right.

 

[lovedogs]

@Burmesedaze @mellowyellowgirl @Bron357 : anyone know what the "going" price is for a 1.1 "jedi" red spinel? Want to make sure I'm not getting screwed.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@Burmesedaze @mellowyellowgirl @Bron357 : anyone know what the "going" price is for a 1.1 "jedi" red spinel? Want to make sure I'm not getting screwed.

Haha I think one of them will be able to tell you.

I'm a dummy. If @Burmesedaze doesn't yell at me for being stupid and say "Nononono" to a purchase then I figure it's ok!

 

[Bron357]

I checked IGS (I have a membership) they say up to $2,000 per carat for top colour red, top clarity.
But seeing as a Jedi Spinel is rare and rarer still over 1 carat, not only do you not have a huge selection to choose from, those few that are for sale can be priced however the vendor chooses.
So I would think under $1,300 a reasonable price and over $2,000 getting too expensive.
I mean, you can get a nice Burmese ruby for the upper price of Jedi Spinel.

 

[Burmesedaze]

The prices are all over the place for this because of its rarity for clean stones, colour and size. Also, there are buyers and collectors willing to pay that. So if you pay top dollar for this, check that it is near perfect. I've seen asking prices from a few hundred to 1000/ct.

You asked me to keep mum on your lavender jadeite, mellow.

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you @Bron357 @Burmesedaze ! I'm paying $1600 (including shipping) for a 1.1, which is more than I've ever spent on a stone. Just wanted to make sure it was fair. The others that were cheaper weren't Jedi so didn't have that glow I wanted.

 

[Burmesedaze]

Does it come with a lab memo? At this price point for a 1.1. It should.

 

[lovedogs]

Does it come with a lab memo? At this price point for a 1.1. It should.

No seller says if he (she?) Is in Thailand they'll do it . Otherwise I'll send it to GIA with promise of fullrefuful if it isn't as stated (natural untreated).

 

[Bron357]

Well $1600 is upper range and you definately want a report identifying it as such for that money.
But it’s the one you love and I think if you buy the cheaper ones you won’t be content and will still “long” for the Jedi Spinel with it’s magic glow.
And I just realized, it’s like a Spinel twin to my little ruby which is the same colour, shape and size - mine is 1.08 carat!

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks for the info @Bron357 ! It's the stone from the 2nd "dream" pic at the top. I really do love it..much more than the $750 one that's essentially the same size.

 

[voce]

@lovedogs Where are you looking for these gems? I'm mainly aware that Finewater Gems and Etsy have red spinels, but maybe there is some other jewelry/gem website I'm not aware of? I can read/write/communicate in Chinese, but having lived in the US all my life I'm afraid of fakes if I'm shopping on Taobao.

 

[Bron357]

Hmm. Have a look on “Gem Rock Auction.com” they have two similiar colour Red Spinels, one $1900 but 2.2 carats and certified, the other is $1,200 for 1.68 carat. I’ve never bought off this site but I know people from mygem course have. The Seller ioon the olatform is actually Australian, in QLD. Worth a look I think.

 

[lovedogs]

Hmm. Have a look on “Gem Rock Auction.com” they have two similiar colour Red Spinels, one $1900 but 2.2 carats and certified, the other is $1,200 for 1.68 carat. I’ve never bought off this site but I know people from mygem course have. The Seller ioon the olatform is actually Australian, in QLD. Worth a look I think.

Can't find the $1200 one, but found the 2+ one. I feel like the 2+ one is a vivid red, similar to the $750 one I almost bought. But doesn't look glowy. But they have smaller parcels that look really good