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I want to recut, what are the best proportions?

spearhead

Rough_Rock
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Nov 11, 2017
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I want to recut an old european round and weight retention is not an issue at all I just want the most brilliant hearts and arrows stone possible to be the result. Which proportions are the absolute best if it doesn't matter how much of the weight of the stone you can retain?

And secondly I want to ask if there are any companies offering re-cutting services in Antwerp that you would recomend over others?

Best regards
Stefan
 

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OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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May I ask why you want to recut an OEC to a MRB?

People will pay good money for a nice OEC, so it is a waste / a shame to lose an OEC with character for the sake of 'yet another' MRB, especially if it's a colourless (D-F) OEC - they are rare nowadays because many/most have been recut to MRBs.

Can you post a clear close-up picture of the stone and any grading report details (if it has one)?


WRT recutting, a lot will depend on the current proportions of the stone, what sort of inclusions there are, whether the likely resulting weight would be acceptable, etc.
 

sledge

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Awhile back I was interested in doing a "new" custom cut MRB to specific proportions that I find favorable. I was informed that wasn't a realistic option and instead guaranteed a range of proportions.

I'm not saying you can't find a cutter to do so but it may be difficult.

You mentioned Antwerp, have you talked with CBI yet?
 

PreRaphaelite

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I’d love to see photos of your stone. Many of us here on Pricescope are huge fans of old cuts and it might be much more profitable, easier, and faster, for you to sell it and buy a stone you like, instead of cutting it.
 

lovedogs

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Agree with others that recutting an OEC into a MRB might not be a great option. Likely better to sell the stone and buy the new MRB.
 

sledge

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I’d love to see photos of your stone. Many of us here on Pricescope are huge fans of old cuts and it might be much more profitable, easier, and faster, for you to sell it and buy a stone you like, instead of cutting it.

Knowing the right answer involves looking at multiple factors and seeing how they play into one another:
  • Approximate size & value of stone as-is if sold in the open market
  • Determining how much carat weight you will lose and how that reduced size and (assuming increased cut quality) will affect the value of the stone once it's been re-cut
  • Cost to perform the re-cut
  • Analysis of the stone's inclusion to determine if a re-cut is feasible and what sort of risk factor you have of potential failure
  • Your own preference for a super ideal MRB vs OEC cut
  • How you value your own time and effort required to make all this happen
  • If this stone has been passed as a heirloom item, are you and the giver (assuming they are still alive) okay with the emotional side of altering the stone?
 

spearhead

Rough_Rock
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Nov 11, 2017
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5
The diamond is about 1.3 ct i don't have any grading report. I want to recut because the stone is really dull and I love well-cut MBR's.

Sledge: No I haven't, who is CBI?
Diamond front.png Diamond side.png
 

tyty333

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It looks to have virtually no crown. What does the bottom of the stone look like? I dont see any pavilion either :shock:.
I have a feeling that it is shallow. What is the mm measurement of the stone?
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
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I think it more like a transitional than a true OEC. Do you have a video you can post?
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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Would be interested in seeing a true side profile shot of the mounted stone so we can see if that crown is truly shallow.
 

Matilda

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 30, 2018
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It seems to have a fish eye which is definitely a bad signing terms off performance. Unless its the photo!
I do suspect it may be cheaper to sell this one and use proceeds towards a new purchase.
 

sledge

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The diamond is about 1.3 ct i don't have any grading report. I want to recut because the stone is really dull and I love well-cut MBR's.

Sledge: No I haven't, who is CBI?
Diamond front.png Diamond side.png

Thank you for posting the pics. As others already indicated I'd like some additional side photos. If the crown and pavilion is as flat as they appear you may reduce significant weight/size to get the type of stone you seek.

My initial thoughts are unless this is a heirloom, you may be much better off selling and applying those funds towards a stone you like.

To answer your other question, CBI is Crafted By Infinity. They have a superb reputation for cutting very high quality super ideal MRB stones.

Honestly I'm not sure if they would take on a recut project but if so I think you would be in great hands.

Perhaps @Wink, @John Pollard or @Paul-Antwerp can comment further as John and Paul work at CBI and Wink works at HPD who distributes CBI stones.
 

SimoneDi

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I would also like to see more pics as others have suggested, but based on what I am seeing now, I would not recut this stone and I have done multiple diamond recuts in the past.

If the stone indeed has a low crown angle and if it is a shallow stone, which to me seems to be the case, the diamond will lose too much diameter and weight in the recut process. I would absolutely not recut it to an MRB. Maybe Jon or someone else who specializes in antique stones would tweak it, but again, I am not sure if that would be worth it.

Likely the best case scenario is to sell it, if not happy with it and put the funds toward something else.

Lastly, make sure to clean the stone, a clean diamond will perform a lot better than a dirty one ;-)
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
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Crafted By Infinity has recut some siamonds for people. Wink at High Performance Diamonds or Melissa "Wink's Elf," on here, can probably give you more information on that. I believe CBI is an all-or-nothing deal. They only recut to their very tight ultra-high standards, and the diamond will lose whatever weight it takes to achieve the necessary make, faceting, and performance. The best diamonds to start with for that are probably the steep/deep kind, since they have crown height. A very flat and shallow stone is going to lose a lot of material, as someone already said.

Brian Gavin recut a diamond for me. Mine was on the shallow side, but it was a good performer to begin with. It ended up as a H&A, but still with a large-ish table but improved symmetry and definite arrows. It's an L/M color, probably an M, and I never had it lab-graded. Brian, at that time, was willing to try to balance performance against weight loss and other factors. He analyzes the diamond and its inclusions and structure and advises what the choices and tradeoffs might be. My stone lost a little less weight than the original estimate.
 

spearhead

Rough_Rock
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Nov 11, 2017
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Thank you for all your replies! I will probably leave the stone as is and look for another stone.

Happy holidays to all of you!
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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You didn't mention where you are. If you're Belgian, it makes sense to be looking in Antwerp, but if you're somewhere else, may I ask why are you specifying there?
 

spearhead

Rough_Rock
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Nov 11, 2017
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@denverappraiser I'm in Denmark and I only know of skilled cutters in Antwerp.
If you can recommend top tier cutters elsewhere in Europe I would be glad to hear of them.

Best regards
Stefan
 

denverappraiser

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Antwerp has a whole industry of good cutters. I know several but none who take work from the public. That's why I ask. The normal approach is to work through a local jeweler and THEY they job out the work to a specialist. Normally jewelers don't do this in-house and normally cutters don't have the facility to deal with consumers.
The cutter discussed above is www.craftedbyinfinity.com. They're in Antwerp and they are just such a company. I know they have at least one dealer in BE and a few more about Europe. I'm sure it's listed on their website. They won't work with you directly but I suspect the dealers are all prepared to help you out if you contact them directly.
 

spearhead

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Nov 11, 2017
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Thank you for your quick response @denverappraiser . You mentioned that you know several good cutters good cutters who can you recommend besides CBI?
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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I mentioned that I know some, not that I would recommend them. That's a conflict of interest problem. I mention CBI only because it's brought up above and I was clarifying. None that I know will work directly with you (although I wouldn't give a name even if they would).
 

Dizzie

Brilliant_Rock
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CBI has a dealer in Finland, so that might be easier. Also they have a dealer working with public in Belgium
 

Dizzie

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Please be aware that with a shallow stone like this there is a high probability of a significant weight loss in recut. Also depending on the clarity there might be some risk in recurring, which in most case is beared by the consignor not cutter
 

diamondseeker2006

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We really can't judge that stone from either photo. The first is not totally head on, and the second is not a profile view. It does have a nice small table. I would not recut an OEC into a modern stone, but I might have it tweaked to be a better OEC.

High crown OECs would lose more weight being recut into an ideal cut round brilliant. If this one has a lower crown, it would be closer to the crown height of a round brilliant. But I still would leave an antique stone alone unless the cut is bad, and even then, I'd do a little rehab to make it a better OEC. I might be biased, though. ;))
 
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