Feedback on Ovals the jeweller called in

[Lovesparklesparle]

Hi all,

I am helping a friend with his engagement ring. I posted a while ago re helping him find a pear, but we are now looking at ovals. We have the design nailed down, now it’s just the stone.

We are in Australia which makes sourcing stones from the USA less attractive to him. I found a lovely opulance but he would rather buy locally. He showed pictures of the opulance and a common oval to his intended and she couldn’t see any difference.

He is concerned the opulance will look synthetic (one jeweller put this idea in his head when he told them he had one on hold ... I know..)

The following stones have been offered by a local jeweller (the pics are from his email) and no further details are known to me at the moment. My friend has asked for my opinion.

My immediate reaction is no to all of them, but he is running out of time and is keen to get this sorted.

We looked in store at stones from this vendor before and I rejected them all.

Based on the limited information, are any of these worth pursuing further? I have told him I’m no expert in ovals but none of their cuts are doing it for me.

Thanks in advanced!

 

[KKJohnson]

We would need videos of them, but strictly judging from the photo the 3rd looks ok

 

[OoohShiny]

[
My immediate reaction is no to all of them, but he is running out of time and is keen to get this sorted.

We looked in store at stones from this vendor before and I rejected them all.

Based on the limited information, are any of these worth pursuing further? I have told him I’m no expert in ovals but none of their cuts are doing it for me.

Thanks in advanced!

I think I would agree with your position on this lol - none are amazing.

He is aware that unscrupulous vendors often denigrate their opposition in a desperate attempt to look better themselves??

I would just tell him to order the AVInc. Opulence Oval and be done with - he can then compare it to local stones if he still wants to, observe how crap their light performance is compared to it, and then if the jeweler attempts to denigrate it, he can ask the jeweler how exactly increased light return and therefore better sparkle/fire is contrary to the sole purpose a diamond has!

Confirm with Rhino in terms of Returns period, and also insurance/shipping arrangements for returns (I'm not sure if Rhino would cover returning insurance) and get it bought IMHO!!

 

[Starfacet]

I would just tell him to order the AVInc. Opulence Oval and be done with - he can then compare it to local stones if he still wants to, observe how crap their light performance is compared to it, and then if the jeweler attempts to denigrate it, he can ask the jeweler how exactly increased light return and therefore better sparkle/fire is contrary to the sole purpose a diamond has!

Confirm with Rhino in terms of Returns period, and also insurance/shipping arrangements for returns (I'm not sure if Rhino would cover returning insurance) and get it bought IMHO!!

Good advice IMO. These stones need to be seen IRL up against other ovals in order to appreciate their performance. And I think that Rhino includes return shipping, whether it's for an actual return of the stone, or to have it set, but I would double check with him.

 

[bmfang]

None of those four ovals does it for me. All I am seeing is crushed ice. The B&M jeweller is like protecting his own turf by denigrating stones bought online and likely hasn’t even heard of an ASET (most Aussie jewellers I have visited haven’t heard of them).

My recommendation is to get that opulence from Rhino!!!

 

[elliefire99]

Hmmm... I know Rhino posted a video comparing the opulence to a standard oval somewhere (I think Instagram?). Maybe seeing them in action, not just photos, will help change your friend's mind.

I will see if I can find it...

Edit: I think it was actually just the photo, which I think is what you already showed your friend How could he not be enamored?!

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Yes I found the comparison videos and sent them to him.

My awkward position is I strongly believe the opulance is the best choice. It is the only oval of the ones we have seen I would be happy with. The images/pics/video provided by the B&m stores here have not provided enough for me or anyone to make an informed decision, which I communicated to him. He is asking one vendor if he will send the stone to us for viewing- they are unable to provide further videos outside the light box.

But at the end of the day I must respect what he values most, which is convenience, and help him with what he has decided to do.

I spoke to him today voicing my feelings about which stone he should buy one last time with confidence, thank you, yet he is now firm on rejecting the opulance. His lady couldn’t see any difference in the videos between the stones if she had, he said he would be happy to go for it, but seeing as she didn’t, he doesn’t want the extra hassle of buying overseas....

The risk now is he must blindly choose a vendor and gamble on the stone. I don’t know if he would be able to exchange the stone once the ring his completed if he is unhappy with it - is this a thing?

Luckily it seems she will love whatever he chooses for her.

All the stones pictured in this thread are with overseas vendors. I have recommended he get videos of #3.

I think I may just have to step back and que sera sera.

 

[elliefire99]

Just in case the side-by-side comparison ISN'T what OP shared with oval-seeking friend... Here it is:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjf3s02A0Vx/?taken-by=augustvintage

Edit: Looks like OP posted at the same time. Link here anyway for anyone reading along

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

Just in case the side-by-side comparison ISN'T what OP shared with oval-seeking friend... Here it is:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjf3s02A0Vx/?taken-by=augustvintage

Edit: Looks like OP posted at the same time. Link here anyway for anyone reading along

Oh sorry I didn’t show him this ig but videos on YouTube- this is a very poignant demonstration indeed. I will send it to him.

I do worry about him blaming me if I pressure him into buying the opulance and he doesn’t like it. Should I just let it go ?

The opulance we were holding is a K to be set in rose gold. There’s is also a G available but Rhino recommends the K.

 

[elliefire99]

Tough question.

I guess my argument would be that, even if his lady can't tell the difference between the two, wouldn't HE feel better knowing that he gave her the absolute best he could? Especially for such a significant piece of jewelry. But that could just be me projecting my own feelings onto an Aussie I've never met.

And if he doesn't like it (seems unlikely), I wouldn't feel bad about it. You are giving your advice about something you are passionate about to someone you care about. The only thing you SHOULD feel bad about is if he ultimately decides to stay in-house and you continue to drag him about it, rather than celebrating the diamond they get. But I'm sure you wouldn't do that.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

How would you go about celebrating the in house stone?

 

[elliefire99]

How would you go about celebrating the in house stone?

Hahaha. Help him find the best of limited options, say "I'm happy for you (?)," and maybe focus on finding a killer setting? Focus on the engagement and not the ring I suppose Failing that, smile and nod. heh. I guess "celebrate" may be a strong word.

Or maybe find a place with a good upgrade policy?

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

Lol!

But seriously I totally second what you are saying.

So after showing him the insta post you provided The opulance may be back on the bottom of the shortlist lol.... he will show her again.

In the mean time, we are having a different stone sent to us for viewing from a ps quality vendor. If it’s good I’ll recommend he go with it. If he is happy with it I will “celebrate” with him no matter what

I’ll be sure to post vids when it arrives.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

This is the infamous opulance.

Both the Australian jewellers have torn it to shreds for its colour, cut, spread ... not a single positive word ... which has spooked my friend.

Do you think the colour would be an issue in a rose gold halo?

 

[OoohShiny]

He does understand that the vendors he is speaking to have vested interests in putting down any competition??

I also LOLd a bit at not wanting to buy from the USA but being happy to look at stones that are all 'overseas'...


K in a RG setting seems a common recommendation on PS, so it should look good. What setting is it? Solitaire or haloed? And has the intended recipient seen a range of colours in person to understand likely tint from the side and ascertain her sensitivity and preference? If not then I'd be tempted to go for the G, even if Rhino is saying the K might be a better option.

Do we know the return policies at AVInc yet? Perhaps @Rhino may be able to confirm

I totally get that you don't want to be the one that 'forces him into buying' an Opulence Oval, but the point of the Returns policies (assuming AVInc has 30 days / free and insured returns) is that he can buy it 'reluctantly' and can return it if he doesn't like it. Which means he can compare to the stones locally and buy with his own eyes, rather than relying on the fallacious denigrations of local vendors keen to line their own pockets, who also have never even seen the cut in question so are in no position to speak with authority.

Has he asked the local jewelers what their returns policies are? Can he return for full refunds, no questions asked? (If so, does he have that in writing?) Or will he be forced to take 'store credit' that cannot be spent elsewhere?

Have the local jewelers let him analyse stones away from the 'magic lights' that make even the worst diamonds look decent?


Ultimately you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. So at some point you will have to tell him that you have made your recommendations in the strongest possible terms, have pointed out the option available to him to confirm or reject your recommendation at zero cost to him (assuming free returns and shipping insurance via AVInc), have pointed out the exact reasons why local vendors don't want him to buy elsewhere, and that you are leaving the ball in his court because it is his decision and you do not want to be held responsible for it.

It sounds as though like most (new to the market and hence uneducated) diamond buyers, he/she will be happy with whatever mediocrity/crap the local store sells them (because the store's own valuation was double the price, look what a bargain we got!! ) and they don't want to take / have not got the time to educate themselves fully and buy with full awareness of all the options out there. (And local vendors with stock to shift are unlikely to want them to become educated.) In which case, you will just have to leave them to it - then explain nicely about how important cut is if (when...) they wonder why their stone is so much less sparkly than your / your partner's stone if you are all out together one evening.

 

[bmfang]

What @OoohShiny said.

Almost all of the Aussie jewellers I have spoken to have had negative reviews of consumers buying stones online on their own. Unless the jeweller happens to be the one who is offering a “diamond concierge” service and are pulling stones from the same virtual inventory (like I have seen at Anthony’s Fine Jewellery recently).

 

[Crystal_Dreams]

I’ve found most retail people in Australia (and presumably elsewhere) are very negative about buying online. So I see no point in telling them what I’m planning.

In fact, although some have people who actually know what they’re talking about, the sad fact is a lot have no idea...

I went looking at rings the other day (for fun) and walked into a high end mall store. The kind that requires you to press a bell to be let in. The sales rep tried to show me a marquise when I asked for an oval. Then when I asked whether their sapphires were heated and whether they had Certs, she actually asked me ‘what do you mean? Our sapphires are all ‘Ceylonese’’.

I DID then go to another store where I met a sales rep who I was quite impressed with. For fun (and I hadn’t realised this), she showed me an oval which she described as a ‘de beers oval which is cut to maximise sparkle and light return’. Interestingly, she readily informed me that for this reason, the oval faced up smaller (like the AVOO), and readily discussed how it would be a matter of balancing priorities or cut (sparkle), face up size and budget. She told me that de beers were the only ones to cut these ‘special ovals’ which looked smaller but had far better cut and light return. I smiled and nodded.

The oval in question actually DIDN’T have a visible bow-tie that I could see in the store lights though. And she encouraged me to look at it away from spot lighting.

 

[ringo865]

Holloway jewelers is in Australia. Garry Holloway (inventor of HCA) is a sponsor on here.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

He does understand that the vendors he is speaking to have vested interests in putting down any competition??

Yes he does, but they are all very persuasive... the AVOO is new and not widely accepted in Australia.

I also LOLd a bit at not wanting to buy from the USA but being happy to look at stones that are all 'overseas'...


K in a RG setting seems a common recommendation on PS, so it should look good. What setting is it? Solitaire or haloed?

*It is a vintage style halo


And has the intended recipient seen a range of colours in person to understand likely tint from the side and ascertain her sensitivity and preference? If not then I'd be tempted to go for the G, even if Rhino is saying the K might be a better option.

* No- she has not been in the stone hunt at all and is a complete noob when it comes to diamonds. He is concerned about the tint though so a higher colour will be my recommendation.

Do we know the return policies at AVInc yet? Perhaps @Rhino may be able to confirm

* I think he said full refund less postage and fees. The costs associated with the return is what he doesn’t like about the opulence. He said it’s 85% out of the running.

I totally get that you don't want to be the one that 'forces him into buying' an Opulence Oval, but the point of the Returns policies (assuming AVInc has 30 days / free and insured returns) is that he can buy it 'reluctantly' and can return it if he doesn't like it. Which means he can compare to the stones locally and buy with his own eyes, rather than relying on the fallacious denigrations of local vendors keen to line their own pockets, who also have never even seen the cut in question so are in no position to speak with authority.

Has he asked the local jewelers what their returns policies are? Can he return for full refunds, no questions asked? (If so, does he have that in writing?) Or will he be forced to take 'store credit' that cannot be spent elsewhere?

* promise of full refund


Have the local jewelers let him analyse stones away from the 'magic lights' that make even the worst diamonds look decent?


* he is buying one of the stones from the Australian vendor. We will inspect it before the make.

* the other vendor is requesting videos of the stones in the opening post of this thread.



Ultimately you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. So at some point you will have to tell him that you have made your recommendations in the strongest possible terms, have pointed out the option available to him to confirm or reject your recommendation at zero cost to him (assuming free returns and shipping insurance via AVInc), have pointed out the exact reasons why local vendors don't want him to buy elsewhere, and that you are leaving the ball in his court because it is his decision and you do not want to be held responsible for it.

It sounds as though like most (new to the market and hence uneducated) diamond buyers, he/she will be happy with whatever mediocrity/crap the local store sells them (because the store's own valuation was double the price, look what a bargain we got!! ) and they don't want to take / have not got the time to educate themselves fully and buy with full awareness of all the options out there. (And local vendors with stock to shift are unlikely to want them to become educated.) In which case, you will just have to leave them to it - then explain nicely about how important cut is if (when...) they wonder why their stone is so much less sparkly than your / your partner's stone if you are all out together one evening.

I have made it very known that I think the AVOO is the best option, but it looks like this will not be the go... : (

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

What @OoohShiny said.

Almost all of the Aussie jewellers I have spoken to have had negative reviews of consumers buying stones online on their own. Unless the jeweller happens to be the one who is offering a “diamond concierge” service and are pulling stones from the same virtual inventory (like I have seen at Anthony’s Fine Jewellery recently).

They all promise that they have access to the best stones. They all say they make very small margins on the stones .. is this true?? If they don’t actually source the best possible stones, why the heck not? They are professionals after all.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

I’ve found most retail people in Australia (and presumably elsewhere) are very negative about buying online. So I see no point in telling them what I’m planning.

In fact, although some have people who actually know what they’re talking about, the sad fact is a lot have no idea...

I went looking at rings the other day (for fun) and walked into a high end mall store. The kind that requires you to press a bell to be let in. The sales rep tried to show me a marquise when I asked for an oval. Then when I asked whether their sapphires were heated and whether they had Certs, she actually asked me ‘what do you mean? Our sapphires are all ‘Ceylonese’’.

I DID then go to another store where I met a sales rep who I was quite impressed with. For fun (and I hadn’t realised this), she showed me an oval which she described as a ‘de beers oval which is cut to maximise sparkle and light return’. Interestingly, she readily informed me that for this reason, the oval faced up smaller (like the AVOO), and readily discussed how it would be a matter of balancing priorities or cut (sparkle), face up size and budget. She told me that de beers were the only ones to cut these ‘special ovals’ which looked smaller but had far better cut and light return. I smiled and nodded.

The oval in question actually DIDN’T have a visible bow-tie that I could see in the store lights though. And she encouraged me to look at it away from spot lighting.

Yes, I have heard some very interesting “facts” from sales reps. Just nod and smile.

I had a very actually interesting meeting with another jeweller re old cuts. I sent my friend from this thread to see him about his e ring. The jeweller adamantly told him that a bow tie was a GOOD thing and shows that the facets are working properly ...

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

This is a series of screenshots from a clip of the stone we are having sent here to inspect. Thoughts? It’s natural daylight. Apologies for the terrible quality but it was sent via Dropbox and I don’t be know if I can share the clip publicly

 

[Starfacet]

This is the infamous opulance.
Both the Australian jewellers have torn it to shreds for its colour, cut, spread ... not a single positive word ... which has spooked my friend.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

I know. It’s like being mean to the pretty girl because all the boys like her.

 

[Starfacet]

I know. It’s like being mean to the pretty girl because all the boys like her.

I react like that because that's my Opulence oval on the left in the video that I have up for sale only because of financial issues. I had been looking at ovals off and on for 10 years before buying that one, and I personally think that the Opulence product can't be beat. I wouldn't be letting it go if I didn't absolutely have to!
Reading one of your earlier posts, I don't see how the Opulence looks "synthetic"!! Sounds like jealousy talking if you ask me!

 

[Starfacet]

This is a series of screenshots from a clip of the stone we are having sent here to inspect. Thoughts? It’s natural daylight. Apologies for the terrible quality but it was sent via Dropbox and I don’t be know if I can share the clip publicly

I personally don't like the bowtie, which the Oplulence does not have.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

Are you for real!!!! Lol that’s crazy. I love it personally

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

I personally don't like the bowtie, which the Oplulence does not have.

Yeah same... but this is better than the other we have seen so far ... he asked me what I think and I said it was nice ... unfortunately/fortunately the bride to be isnt bothered by any of this cut quality and I think she just wants a ring!

 

[Starfacet]

Are you for real!!!! Lol that’s crazy. I love it personally

Yes, and it's still available!

 

[Starfacet]

Yeah same... but this is better than the other we have seen so far ... he asked me what I think and I said it was nice ... unfortunately/fortunately the bride to be isnt bothered by any of this cut quality and I think she just wants a ring!

I don't envy the position you're in!