Diamond Info Overload

[jmr928]

Hi All - After lurking and reading for the past few weeks I'm finally throwing in the towel on self-research and putting this post out there since you all seem to have such great insight.

My significant other and I have begun looking at diamonds and I have been given a lot of leeway on picking things out for a surprise after getting some guidance. She wants a round stone and I know she wants a platinum pave setting that's on the thinner side (she's very fair skinned and a size 4). We locally looked at Lazare stones and had an okay but not great experience. While trying things on she seemed pleased with anything bigger than 1.25 but seemed to really light up a bit more when we got closer to/over 1.5, while she insists she'd be happy with anything, seeing her light up a bit more kinda set the 1.5 goal in my mind a bit.

After starting to research some and finding this website and venturing out on my own with my rough marching orders I'm having a bit of detail overload as I go deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. This website is full of great information but I'm having trouble running all the information through a filter and prioritizing.

Feeling pretty set on getting a SuperIdeal and have settled on Whiteflash I think as the place to look but have no idea where to draw the threshold on clarity and color - She seemed to maybe be a little color sensitive and I know neither of us want to be able to see inclusions leaving me torn about G vs H (or higher?) and VS vs Si1.

I'd ideally like to be in the $13K or less range for the stone but have a little flexibility if I need to. It seems like I can find G's that are Si1 or H's that are VS2 around the 1.5 range or G VS2 in the 1.4 range in that window but really have no idea if I'm making a mountain out of mole hills on these differences in one color or clarity level and .1 carats/.1mm or if these are things that I (and more importantly she) will notice? Any insight or thoughts would be so greatly appreciated!

 

[beardog]

You're doing fine. Select a couple you like & contact them in the chat. Tell them you'd like to have them compare the ones you like side by side for color difference & which is more visually appealing. Also let them know your* standard of eyeclean. The sites is 10" from the top, this can allow you to see if there's an SI1 that works for you.
Their staff couldn't be nicer or more helpful

 

[kmoro]

Here’s an ACA with a 54.3 table and you save by being just under the 1.5 mark ... diamond is a little less “round” than some ...

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965469.htm

 

[Matilda]

made up a comparison page of ACAs , apart from one premium select:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...47012,4059881,4059361,4059884,4045672,4045312

all are eye clean

 

[OoohShiny]

Here’s an ACA with a 54.3 table and you save by being just under the 1.5 mark ... diamond is a little less “round” than some ...

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965469.htm

You won't see a difference of 0.07mm unless you are Superman!

 

[Matilda]

Does your budget include the setting? If so what price range setting are you looking at?

 

[jmr928]

Does your budget include the setting? If so what price range setting are you looking at?

It doesn’t I was planning on just this budget for the stone.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

You came to the right place for advice.
I like this H. It's a great compromise on colour & clarity. It looks completely eye clean & the inclusions aren't an integrity concerns. Ask WF about the additional clouds not shown just to be sure (if you pursue this stone put in on hold) but most times this isn't an issue.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4045312.htm
All the best.

 

[Matilda]

@ccuheartnurse I agree, I would probably pick that one!! @jmr928 that diamond is in the comparison page I posted.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Sorry Matilda! I have bad manners, didn't refer to your comparison page you spent time putting together.

 

[jmr928]

Thank you all for the input - Any thoughts on if there are any in this compare page (which includes the suggested one) that jump out to avoid if I were to give them a call and ask for their opinion and to take a look at? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4011141,4059354,4045312,4042793

 

[sledge]

FYI....most people can start to see a very slight size difference around the 0.20mm mark if two stones are placed side by side. The difference is not significant, blow your socks off and make you go wow. In fact, if you were blindly shown two stones at different times, you may not even realize there was a size difference.

As a point of reference:

• 0.20mm difference is about 1/128th of an inch
• 0.10mm difference is about 1/256th of an inch

For this reason, sticking in the 1.4 carat range will give the same visual appeal of a 1.5ct stone while avoiding price premium associated with hitting the magic 1.5 carat mark.

Also, I might note that I find it frustrating to relate size to carat weight. By pure math, the approximate weight of a round diamond is determined by this formula: length x width x depth x 0.061.

As you begin to examine diamonds closer you will learn that things like table size, crown and pavilion angles will affect all these dimensions. Also, a poorly cut stone known as "deep & steep" may weigh 1.5 carats but may face up much smaller. Whereas an ideal cut smaller stone would look every bit as large, if not bigger, than a poorly cut 1.5ct+ stone. Another variable would be a large table and shallow crown such which will provide a stone with lots of white light return and actually look larger than it's carat weight because of the table & crown angle.

It's the equivalent of having a big box filled with coal and a smaller box filled with a diamond, and then asking you to choose the best box. If you don't know how to analyze the inside contents of each box, and merely base it on weight you will get coal.

 

[sledge]

Thank you all for the input - Any thoughts on if there are any in this compare page (which includes the suggested one) that jump out to avoid if I were to give them a call and ask for their opinion and to take a look at? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4011141,4059354,4045312,4042793

FYI, the A Cut Above (ACA) series of diamonds is WF's premier H&A stone. The Expert Select (ES) series just misses the ACA mark and has AGS certification. They have a similar line called the Premium Select (PS) that just misses the ACA mark but has GIA certification.

How narrowly the ES and PS stones miss the ACA mark depends on each independent stone, but are generally thought of as very high quality stones.

The ACA, ES and PS stones all have the same great trade-in policy -- get full value of original stone when upgrading to a stone of equal or higher value. This is pretty phenomenal as most places require you spend 2x as much as the original purchase to get your initial value back and can make it difficult to upgrade if you learn (sooner rather than later) that you need higher color, clarity, size, etc.

A final thought is learning your SO's color sensitivity. I know you are on the fence between a G and H. In my own experience, I thought my (now) fiancee wasn't color sensitive at all and I proceeded on with an H as it's still very, very white especially in a super ideal stone. Afterwards I learned she could easily see the tint in her stone, although she claims she isn't bothered by it.

That said, most people can't tell the difference between 1 shade; however, based on my experience I might be inclined to go with a higher color. I know sometimes we say we will buy an H an upgrade if she doesn't like. But that philosophy only works if your girl isn't all sentimental and will actually do the upgrade once you present the stone to her. Otherwise, she may just not say anything and/or keep it for sentimental purposes.

So I would encourage you to look at some GIA or AGS graded stones and get a real feel for her color preference BEFORE you buy.

 

[jmr928]

A final thought is learning your SO's color sensitivity. I know you are on the fence between a G and H. In my own experience, I thought my (now) fiancee wasn't color sensitive at all and I proceeded on with an H as it's still very, very white especially in a super ideal stone. Afterwards I learned she could easily see the tint in her stone, although she claims she isn't bothered by it.

That said, most people can't tell the difference between 1 shade; however, based on my experience I might be inclined to go with a higher color. I know sometimes we say we will buy an H an upgrade if she doesn't like. But that philosophy only works if your girl isn't all sentimental and will actually do the upgrade once you present the stone to her. Otherwise, she may just not say anything and/or keep it for sentimental purposes.

So I would encourage you to look at some GIA or AGS graded stones and get a real feel for her color preference BEFORE you buy.

Thank you - This was exactly what I was wondering on the noticeability on color changes - I'll try and get her to go take a peek and see if I can find out if they have some AGS000 G's and H's to pull so we can get a sense of how sensitive she is to color, clarity and size changes and try to prompt the sales person to not tell her what she is looking at.

 

[rockysalamander]

You probably won't find AGS000 in the wild. Look at GIA stones. Give then 1 at a time to her and dont say color. See what she can see...and, if she can see color does she mind if it means a bigger stone. Any PS vendor speaks GIA and can tell you on how that presents for their AGS stones.

 

[ringo865]

Have them show you from a g to a j (never next to one another)

 

[Matilda]

@ccuheartnurse cannot tell if you are being sarcastic! but no don't think bad manners at all, if you were not being sarcastic!

 

[jmr928]

We made it out to the local store this weekend to take a peek at what they had and viewed a range of AGS000's from Lazare Kaplan in F-H and then some GIA stones from ForeverMark in H-I and she didn't seem to notice the color as much when they were face up and weren't side by side on a white display tray which makes me more confident in an H - Even when she had an F vs an H on her hand side by she just saw sparkle in jewelry store light and daylight. Thanks to all of you for the tips on viewing and looking one at a time.

Now for the fun part - picking one out! On this list - is there one that's proportions jump out at you of having better proportions or that you'd expect to perform better? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4042791,4011141,4059354,4045312,4042793

I'm hesitant to trust my eyes online in a video but the H Si1's seem to be throwing more light and maybe a little bigger flashes - Any concerns about the types of inclusions I should be aware of that would compromise the diamond? Thanks again for all the insight!

 

[OoohShiny]

We made it out to the local store this weekend to take a peek at what they had and viewed a range of AGS000's from Lazare Kaplan in F-H and then some GIA stones from ForeverMark in H-I and she didn't seem to notice the color as much when they were face up and weren't side by side on a white display tray which makes me more confident in an H - Even when she had an F vs an H on her hand side by she just saw sparkle in jewelry store light and daylight. Thanks to all of you for the tips on viewing and looking one at a time.

Now for the fun part - picking one out! On this list - is there one that's proportions jump out at you of having better proportions or that you'd expect to perform better? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4042791,4011141,4059354,4045312,4042793

I'm hesitant to trust my eyes online in a video but the H Si1's seem to be throwing more light and maybe a little bigger flashes - Any concerns about the types of inclusions I should be aware of that would compromise the diamond? Thanks again for all the insight!

My understanding is that WF wouldn't sell stones with compromised structural integrity or light performance, so you should have no worries on that front.

The ACAs are 'top of the line' in terms of cut, so all of them should perform well. Other than the visibility of inclusions (and their acceptability to you / your intended), I think the only thing to perhaps consider is if you like broader flashes of light (so would prefer shorter Lower Girdle Facet (LGF) lengths, say 75% or 76%) or more 'splintery' flashes of light (so would like longer LGFs, approaching 80%).

 

[jmr928]

Thanks, @OoohShiny. Tagging @sledge @ccuheartnurse and @Matilda who had good info.

I think I've narrowed it down to three stones and think I'm probably splitting hairs at this point and reaching the paralysis by analysis stage - Of these three is there one that jumps out? I did check on HCA scores and all are in the .9-1ish range - I've tried to look at the HCA details and in some old threads - Any concerns about these not performing well set on a ring? ASETs and IdealScopes look pretty much identical to my admittedly untrained eye. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4011141,4045312,4042793 I'm leaning toward the 1.51 which had an HCA of .9.

 

[OoohShiny]

IIRC the only concerns with lower HCA scores (<1) is that they might suffer excessive obstruction in a few cases when viewed head-on, but as they are ACA stones, I don't believe it will be an issue. (The benefit of using WF and the other PS-recommended vendors is that you have excellent Returns policy and customer service to rely on if needed.)

They will all look great, I'm sure, but the shorter LGFs and the table at the smaller end of the recommended scale should mean there is increased opportunity for dispersion in the 1.51, which should mean it creates more coloured 'fire'

 

[sledge]

Everyone, let's not forget the HCA is for GIA stones only. The tool approximates light return, etc.

AGS graded stones utilize advanced 3D modeling to scan the stone and consequently create a computer ASET. And since these are all ACA's, WF provides actual ASET's as well. All this is advanced and hard data that supersedes the HCA approximation.

 

[jmr928]

A quick update on this - I ended up pulling the trigger on the 1.51 ACA and we had a short timeline to get something put together and shipped. Picked everything up this morning and thrilled with how everything turned out.

A huge thank you to @Vera W and Michelle at WF who were super helpful throughout the process and kept me updated every step of the way and ensured that it made it out on time. With a short timeline and requests on customizing a setting they were incredibly helpful even going so far as to give me a heads up on the possibility of a shipping delay before anything went wrong and going above and beyond to ensure it hit the deadline and made it out the door on time - Vera was in constant contact and made me feel much more comfortable and confident as I anxiously awaited the notification that it had shipped.

My photography skills are certainly not great and my iphone picturesI don't think do justice to what I see in real life. I'll be back with better photos once I get a chance to present it to her and figure out how to take better ones.


Also thanks to @sledge, @OoohShiny, @ccuheartnurse, @beardog, @kmoro and @Matilda for the input/tips on picking a stone and reassurance throughout the process! View attachment 667281 View attachment 667283 View attachment 667284 View attachment 667286

 

[OoohShiny]

Looks lovely - I am sure it will have the desired effect!

We will look forward to more photos!

 

[beardog]

Beautiful, great job!!

 

[sledge]

Congrats @jmr928, you did great!

Can't wait to see to hear how the proposal goes and pictures on her hand. Are you nervous? Was you blown away with it?

 

[jmr928]

To be honest @sledge I was much more nervous to pick a diamond (although that's subject to change when it's actually time to ask). And yes I was and am absolutely blown away. I'd gotten nervous after hearing some recent stories about AGS being soft on grading color but that is definitely not the case on this stone not only does it face up very "white" from the exposed sides it doesn't have hardly any tint. I'm shocked at how clean the stone looks. Even knowing where the inclusions are I can't find them with my naked eye in spite of it being an Si1. Aside from that it's incredibly bright and has lots of broad flashes. I feel like I really lucked out with the stone as far as color and clarity and then the research on this forum got the cut perfectly which led to, in my mind, a really good value but more importantly a great diamond.

Love how the proportions work on it.

Depth % 61.1
Table % 55.9
Crown Angle 34.8
Star 52.0
Pavilion Angle 40.7
Crown % 15.3
Lower Girdle % 76.0

1.518
H
Si1

 

[Matilda]

SOOOO beautiful!!! Congratulations on the excellent choice. I am certain she will love it!

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

I'd gotten nervous after hearing some recent stories about AGS being soft on grading color but that is definitely not the case on this stone...

That is a local urban myth with no substantiation. I'm glad you didn't buy into it.

Congrats on making it through the stressful part intact and finding a marvelous stone. Can't wait to hear how the proposal goes.

 

[kmoro]

To be honest @sledge I was much more nervous to pick a diamond (although that's subject to change when it's actually time to ask). And yes I was and am absolutely blown away. I'd gotten nervous after hearing some recent stories about AGS being soft on grading color but that is definitely not the case on this stone not only does it face up very "white" from the exposed sides it doesn't have hardly any tint. I'm shocked at how clean the stone looks. Even knowing where the inclusions are I can't find them with my naked eye in spite of it being an Si1. Aside from that it's incredibly bright and has lots of broad flashes. I feel like I really lucked out with the stone as far as color and clarity and then the research on this forum got the cut perfectly which led to, in my mind, a really good value but more importantly a great diamond.

Love how the proportions work on it.

Depth % 61.1
Table % 55.9
Crown Angle 34.8
Star 52.0
Pavilion Angle 40.7
Crown % 15.3
Lower Girdle % 76.0

1.518
H
Si1

Ahhhh! Love it! So glad you found your eye candy!