Confused husband to be

[Tiger77]

Hey guys,

Been hard at this search for couple months and just need some help in the closing stages
So decided on this setting in the .9-1 range
https://www.tacori.com/55-2cu65
Thinking of buying online (either whiteflash or since 1910, open to any suggestions)
Having hard choosing diamond. Thinking VS1, F/G, ideal . Just want something that will look nice
Was originally going to go with one of the white flash "super ideal" but heard should really get GIA and then looking at GIA reports confused on what beyond the 4 c's i should be looking for
Budget, hoping to stay under 10k
Any help greatly appreciated

 

[PintoBean]

GIA is good and so is AGS.

If you're looking at that Tacori setting, it's over $4,000 on the WF site so I looked for a diamond in the 6,000 range. G vs2 is going to be eye clean in this size. What do you think of this diamond? I think it's a nice compromise of budget and your desired specs.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3963053.htm

 

[Lorelei]

Hey guys,

Been hard at this search for couple months and just need some help in the closing stages
So decided on this setting in the .9-1 range
https://www.tacori.com/55-2cu65
Thinking of buying online (either whiteflash or since 1910, open to any suggestions)
Having hard choosing diamond. Thinking VS1, F/G, ideal . Just want something that will look nice
Was originally going to go with one of the white flash "super ideal" but heard should really get GIA and then looking at GIA reports confused on what beyond the 4 c's i should be looking for
Budget, hoping to stay under 10k
Any help greatly appreciated

Hi Tiger and welcome!

I'll just sort out the above query first. Whiteflash Superideals all have the highly desirable AGS Ideal cut grades for their reports which especially for many here, trump GIA and their cut grading methods.

GIA are along with AGS, the gold standard in diamond grading however, AGS cut grading in my opinion and that of many others with an interest in diamonds is the best you can get.

So you can most definitely buy a WF 'Super' with complete confidence, knowing you'll not only get a superbly cut and beautiful diamond with the sought after AGS report to boot.

 

[rockysalamander]

Hey guys,

Been hard at this search for couple months and just need some help in the closing stages
So decided on this setting in the .9-1 range
https://www.tacori.com/55-2cu65
Thinking of buying online (either whiteflash or since 1910, open to any suggestions)
Having hard choosing diamond. Thinking VS1, F/G, ideal . Just want something that will look nice
Was originally going to go with one of the white flash "super ideal" but heard should really get GIA and then looking at GIA reports confused on what beyond the 4 c's i should be looking for
Budget, hoping to stay under 10k
Any help greatly appreciated

Did your girl ask for that specific setting? The structure of that setting forces the diamond to be very high off the hand. Tacori are a very nice maker, so I have not issue with the quality, just be 100% that this is THE setting.

This is half the price and very pretty. I'd just want the diamond sunk into the setting like the Tacori.
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...1rz1323-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-3881.htm

 

[Matthews1127]

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3955168.htm

With the wire discount (and possibly the mention of PS), this diamond would fit your criteria, stay within budget range, and still afford you the Tacori setting you posted (Full Bloom).

 

[Tiger77]

Thanks for the replies everyone!
Yes she wants that setting

Now regarding the diamond , can a Gia look as good as a super ideal ? Or is the super ideal definitely better

Also is there a way to tell if diamond will be “eye clean”? Without actually seeing it in person

 

[Matthews1127]

Thanks for the replies everyone!
Yes she wants that setting

Now regarding the diamond , can a Gia look as good as a super ideal ? Or is the super ideal definitely better

Also is there a way to tell if diamond will be “eye clean”? Without actually seeing it in person

This is how I* feel about GIA v AGS certs.: for CUT, AGS is superior. No HCA Tool Calculations, necessary. For COLOR, GIA seems to have more strict guidelines, but an AGS000 Diamond is going to be bright, white, crisp & beautiful, even if their “F/G” color is on the lower end of the color spectrum. Set in a halo, you’ll not notice body color...at all. Most halo settings are set with F/G/H color diamonds, which will not distract from your center stone.
If WF says “Eye clean: Yes”, it is.
If you want “amaze-balls”, super-Ideal, you’ll want to contact @Wink, or @Winks_Elf at HPD, but you’ll likely move out of budget; they are worth every penny!

 

[Tiger77]

Something like this
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8272

 

[Tiger77]

Vs something like this
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.95-carat-e-vs1-yd2355208

3000 difference , is the hp or cut above going to “better”

 

[doberman]

The HP diamond will likely look a little "crisper" for lack of a better term. Do you have to have a colorless diamond? If you move down to H, which is still a very white diamond, and VS2 clarity you can go a good bit larger. You can move to SI1 and stay in G color. I've said this before, but I know for my engagement ring having 1ct+ near colorless would be preferable than a smaller colorless diamond.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3979469.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947659.htm

I prefer AGS to GIA for cut analysis, but I think AGS is a little softer on color and a little harder on clarity. It seems that the best stones are sent to AGS.

 

[Tiger77]

The ring itself holds between .9 and 1.1 So don’t need to go super big and ideal if can keep under 10 k with setting . Also think g h color should be fine , probably want to stay in vs for clarity

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for the replies everyone!
Yes she wants that setting

Now regarding the diamond , can a Gia look as good as a super ideal ? Or is the super ideal definitely better

Also is there a way to tell if diamond will be “eye clean”? Without actually seeing it in person

Branded Superideals as previously noted almost always have the AGS0 cut grade, they are normally cut to the highest standards of precision and display perfect hearts and arrows, each stone is fine tuned and has to pass strict criteria to be considered worthy of representing their particular brand, they are ' rare animals.'

A GIA Excellent with proven proportions can also be a beautiful diamond and in a casual ' taste test' it might compare extremely favourably to a Super, some might even prefer it. But run tests on both, it's probable the Super is going to out perform and show a cut precision that the other diamond might lack, even if some of the differences are hard to discern in person.

Like my oft mentioned Lamborghini compared to a Mercedes for example. Both very fine cars, both get you to where you want to go quickly but they're different with the Superideal/Lamborghini being the true high end all performing sports model, the Mercedes is still a great car but doesn't have the acceleration of the Lambo - ( Petrolheads feel free to correct me if needed. ). It's a bad analogy maybe but you get the point and also you can't always account for human preference.

Bottom line, if you prefer to go with a GIA graded diamond, choose your proportion combinations with care and check them out with ASET/Idealscope to make sure everything works well together. If you enjoy all the details and the thought of owning one of the most precisely cut diamonds money can buy, then the Superideal is the way to go. Another point to consider, most Superideal diamonds have great upgrade policies because the vendors will be pleased to take the stones back if not damaged, not always the case with the non Super.

Regarding whether a diamond is eye clean or not. The only way to know is to chat to the vendor with the stone in hand and make your expectations clear. If for example, you don't want to see any visible inclusions on close viewing from any angle, make sure they understand that. If you're ok with maybe seeing an inclusion from the side but not face up, make sure they know that too. Online vendors are used to dealing with this and can advise accordingly but remember the industry definition is ' No visible inclusions face up in normal lighting with normal vision from a distance of about 10 - 12 inches.'

 

[Miki Moto]

Hi! I think you need to look at two diamonds side by side. My short story...
I thought super ideals were the end all so I compared only super ideals and picked one. Then, on a later purchase, I decided to compare my super ideal diamond with a GIA ideal, but not super ideal. I was shocked to find I loved the GIA ideal more. It sparkled like crazy. My GIA is more bright white vs ny super ideal which has more contrast (or black and white as I call it in my laymen’s words). So I definitely think you need to bring in two diamonds and compare. I definitely love my GIA far more and sparkle is what I want.

Once you have decided that, then you can choose the color / clarity of your choice. I learned what I like and do not like after visually looking at two stones. Paper numbers cannot do that. Don’t buy based on angles and math.

So to me, yes... GIA ideals can sparkle far more than a super ideal. Let you own eyes decide what you prefer.

Good luck to you!

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

GIA ideals can sparkle far more than a super ideal. Let you own eyes decide what you prefer.!

This is an observation many people make - and it holds true as the 'look' of the diamond as it relates to personal preference is very important.

Often times (and I'll speak on MRB diamonds) a diamond that displays a near-perfect ASET or IS image is going to gain favor on PS because the light return is demonstrably better than a 'pretty-good" performance image. Why then, might someone find, IRL the 'pretty-good' diamond more to their taste?

A diamond outside "super-ideal" parameters (say with a steep CA and smaller table) will often return light in smaller, colored flashes because there are more, darker areas that play apart in our perception of the light. The same diamond may show areas of leakage in an IS or ASET, so how could it be preferred?

A single facet cannot, at the same moment to the same person, return both a white flash of light and a burst of colored light (fire). The viewer will detect fire more often when a facet is darkened by leakage or partially shaded from the light source (this is why so many MRB diamonds will exhibit fire in a dimly lit restaurant). So, put simply - often a diamond with demonstrably 'better' light return (via ASET or IS) may not meet the preferences of someone who would rather see fire than bright, white flashes even in full, bright light.

 

[Miki Moto]

@Diamond_Hawk Hi! This is an excellent explanation of why a GIA ideal sparkles more! So if I get this right... a GIA ideal may have more fire (or sparkle as I call it) especially in dimly light. If GIAs can sparkle more, may I ask, what then is the benefit/tradeoff a super ideal.... in layman's terms please. I have been in this GIA ideal vs. super ideal quandry for a while and your post helps a lot.

@Tiger77 I hope you do look at GIA ideal stones to compare what you prefer. You may like GIA ideals and also find them more sparkly than super ideals. I went to the B2Cjewels.com website to surf (I'm considering upgrading my earrings), and they have a great selection of GIA ideal cut diamonds.

 

[Tiger77]

Thanks for the help everyone !
Have also used the hca calculator to screen for nice cuts
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
That in combination with looking at the inclusions on the Gia report has been very helpful
In shopping around I love the diamonds with the very deep almost dark clear look vs more white in appearance

Think I have all the tools and know how to find a diamond my gf will love

 

[LLJsmom]

@Diamond_Hawk Hi! This is an excellent explanation of why a GIA ideal sparkles more! So if I get this right... a GIA ideal may have more fire (or sparkle as I call it) especially in dimly light. If GIAs can sparkle more, may I ask, what then is the benefit/tradeoff a super ideal.... in layman's terms please. I have been in this GIA ideal vs. super ideal quandry for a while and your post helps a lot.

@Tiger77 I hope you do look at GIA ideal stones to compare what you prefer. You may like GIA ideals and also find them more sparkly than super ideals. I went to the B2Cjewels.com website to surf (I'm considering upgrading my earrings), and they have a great selection of GIA ideal cut diamonds.

I think maybe the definition of “more sparkly” may mean different things to different people. I recently helped a friend purchase an AGS000 and there was a GIA XXX that fell within the PS parameters. I will agree that I saw more small sparkles with the GIA XXX, but saw bigger flashes and complete arrows flash back at me with the AGS000. I also noticed more edge to edge sparkle with the AGS 000. I went back and observed both diamonds theee separate times and after enough viewings I could see sections, albeit small sections of the GIA XXX consistently not light up. It took multiple viewings in various lighting conditions. I’m not saying this is the case with all AGS 000 v GIA 3X Stones. But my own personal experience has convinced me to stick with AGS 000. And super ideals are cut to even tighter parameters. However, if you prefer the more disorganized sparkliness of most GIA 3x, then that is totally fine too. That is just my word to describe tHe sparkle of GIA3xs that I have seen.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

I think maybe the definition of “more sparkly” may mean different things to different people. I recently helped a friend purchase an AGS000 and there was a GIA XXX that fell within the PS parameters. I will agree that I saw more small sparkles with the GIA XXX, but saw bigger flashes and complete arrows flash back at me with the AGS000. I also noticed more edge to edge sparkle with the AGS 000. I went back and observed both diamonds theee separate times and after enough viewings I could see sections, albeit small sections of the GIA XXX consistently not light up. It took multiple viewings in various lighting conditions. I’m not saying this is the case with all AGS 000 v GIA 3X Stones. But my own personal experience has convinced me to stick with AGS 000. And super ideals are cut to even tighter parameters. However, if you prefer the more disorganized sparkliness of most GIA 3x, then that is totally fine too. That is just my word to describe tHe sparkle of GIA3xs that I have seen.

This is a great example and illustrates what I will cover here:

I do want to make sure we are getting our terminology on the same page. Any 'super-ideal' as mentioned on PS (several branded diamonds among them) will ALSO be GIA XXX, but not every (not even close) GIA XXX will be a "super-ideal."

We will assume polish and symmetry as a 'given' excellent then we focus on the remaining "X" which is cut - the single largest determiner of 'super-ideal' vs. 'GIA XXX"(using the terms as used in this thread, though they are being applied a bit clumsily). Let me make sure you understand, among the broad range of GIA XXX graded diamonds, there are a small number of them that would be classified in the 'super-ideal' range.

So, why do some diamonds with a 'regular' GIA XXX exhibit more colored flashes in bright light than a 'super-ideal'? Frankly, it is because they return less light. As I stated in my first post, the light sent to the viewers eye will be either - a bright white flash, or a colored flash - never both simultaneously.

It is virtually impossible to have an environment with no light obstruction in a real life lighting environment (when you look at a diamond from above, your head is obstructing light for example).

So what does all of this mean? The diamonds that return the most light in the bright environments of a diamond showroom, also return the most light in the dimly lit corners of a romantic restaurant. Because the dimly lit restaurant is shaded and lacking in strong, bright light the facets in the best cut diamonds will pick-up the available light and return far more colored flashes than a diamond which returns less light.

Some define the two elements of diamond light return as 'brilliance' - flashes of bright white light and 'fire' - flashes of colored light. A diamond that performs with more brilliance in a well-lit environment generally performs with more 'fire' in a dimly lit environment. The typical diamond showroom is outfitted with LED lights at all angels which will enhance the 'fire' in a diamond. A cloudy day or fluorescent lighting will typically dampen the fire of a diamond and any flashes will be dependent upon the diamond's brilliance. This is why we recommend looking at diamonds outside or under a table or desk when in a B&M store.

So, what does all of this mean? Simple really - the diamonds that return the most light (have the smallest amount of leakage) give you the best chance to experience brilliance and fire. The small changes described in my previous post (smaller table, steeper CA lends to more fire) can be used to steer the purchaser in the right direction, but always, always look for the best light return possible for the diamond to appear both brilliant and fire-y in the appropriate environments.