Buying this ruby (1.1ct antique natural unheated Burmese)?

[milla]

Hi all,

I've spent a long time browsing here and Googling things, but this is my first post here and first time buying gemstones!

I'm choosing my own engagement ring - a big responsibility for a first precious stone purchase. Wanting an antique ring, I've been looking at rings in person to see what I'd like. This one seems so far the absolute prettiest in person, but I have some concerns. Would you lovely people have opinions/expertise/insights to share?

The ring details, pics and video are here: https://www.berganza.com/jewellery_ref_21155.html



I realise the cut is shallow (39% vs. the ideal 60-80% depth percentage/ratio). I've read that a shallow cut might result in a lighter colour (I actually prefer the pinkishness here instead of a deep bright red) and/or a 'window'/'mirror' so you can see through the stone? I'll go see the stone again in person, but does it look bad here or any other cons that come from a shallow cut?

The accompanying report states no heat treatment, but doesn't mention any other treatments - is this a problem? The vendor assured me verbally and in a separate email that it's untreated and natural.

The report is from May 2015. Do you think that's from too long time ago? I know I'd be paying a premium because of the stone is listed as Burmese, but what if the tech used in determining origin has improved significantly since 2015, and now they'd not think its Burmese? Basically, is it worth asking for another analysis just because the existing one is 3 years old?

Thank you so much for reading/replying and hope I'm not being too paranoid here asking silly questions - I just feel responsible for my first big purchase!

 

[chrono]

1. Not sure how reputable the lab is since I’m not familiar with the UK labs

2. Stone is flat and yes, see through. You will see your finger underneath when you wear it. I can see through the stone in the pictures.

3. The colour is pink, not red

4. Setting and stones look original to the date, so there’s something to be said about it being an original with all its charm and quirks.

 

[lmyracle]

I'm a total newb and don't know much BUT, I have learned some things from following PS:

* Don't settle - if it's not exactly what you're looking for, keep looking; and, if it's budget, it may be worth saving a little more and delaying the gratification to get something you truly LOVE a little later on

* Pink - but if you like it, that's what matters

* In the video, there looks to be an inclusion, seen when looking at the ruby from the back of the ring, and with the ring being shallow, my concern would be if it was surface reaching or not? (fellow PSrs correct me if I'm wrong in what I'm seeing, please)

* I've not heard of that lab before either so I'd research that part but doubtful the findings would change if it's indeed a reputable lab

* Coming from having to have prongs re-tipped on a recent purchase ($350 for 4 prongs done via laser), be sure to look at the prongs closely because those repairs can become costly

* If you see the ring and love it, use the above factors as bargaining tools -- (coupled with the fact that the report was done in 2015, the ring still hasn't sold)

I had looked for a ruby e-ring for a while and gave up due to the price of what I wanted was WAY out of my budget - certain shades of red don't look good on me (but the expensive ones do, lol). I ended up with an unheated sapphire so I can appreciate a colored stone e-ring. Best of luck and if this doesn't turn out to be the one, PS'rs are fabulous at finding pretties for you to consider!

 

[LemonMoonLex]

Not an expert here, just a lover of gems and jewelry.
I just wanted to say that this piece carries some charm (: There's something "fresh" looking about the gemstone and the age of the piece is amazing. Reminds me of a little slice of pink grapefruit surrounded by sparkling sugary diamonds.
Would be a very unique engagement ring, just make sure you dont settle if you absolutely arent crazy about it; because when it comes down to it the only opinion that matters is yours and that you're head over heels in love with your ring!

 

[Bron357]

It’s a very beautiful ring and expensive but that’not a good example of a ruby. It’s way too pink to be what most people consider a “ruby”. And it’s shallow and see through. And I’m not seeing much colour intensity or “glow”.
I feel youre paying the big premium for the words “Burmese” and “unheated” without getting the benefit or wow factor those words might be expected to bring.
This ring of mine, the stone is a pink sapphire but you can see how it has a great “colour presence” even without special fancy lighting (indoor, normal lights with an iPhone).
If you love the ring and the ruby, that’s all that matters but from an experienced buyers point of view, I think it is overpriced because the ruby isn’t living up to its name!

 

[leukolenos]

The dealer is reputable but I will say that it is very expensive for what it is.
I agree with Bron that you’re paying major £££ for Burmese and untreated without getting much to show for it.

For that budget, I would prefer no window and better color.

Do you definitely want Burmese and unheated? Or just an antique ruby? Could you post your budget and wish list?

 

[Bron357]

And just by comparison. This is a very similiar ring, the ruby is smaller at .40 carats and the diamonds similiar at .50 carats total, but this ruby is a better gem. It’s likewise a hallmarked 1880s Victorian 18ct ring.
This is on eBay Australia, they’d take $3,400 for it. Your ring in pounds converted to Aust dollars is close on $9,000. That’s almost 3 times as much.
The other thing that concerns me is that the carat weight was calculated by measurement in the setting, they say 1.1 carat approx yet when I use those exact measurements in the Gemval calculator I only get 0.78 carat.
That’s a huge difference and critical in pricing as over 1 carat rubies the value goes up and up.
So, this is definitely something you need to consider, that the carat doesnt seem correct for those given dimensions. The ruby would need to be “unset” to get a proper weight.
And no disrespect intended, but I don’t think highly of the lab who did this report, if they guess the weight incorrectly, can you trust the Burma origin assumption?
Just my 5 pence or cents as the case may be, but for 5,000 “premium” pounds sterling, I’d definitely be wanting a guaranteed 1.1 carat “ruby” from Burma not a possibly incorrect “guesstimate” of weight and possibly origin.

 

[lovedogs]

I definitely would not recommend this ring. We are happy to help with finding a ruby, and I definitely understand the appeal of an antique ring. But that is not well cut, and is WAY overpriced. It should be much more saturated and have more depth--that one looks see through and very flat. I also agree with @Bron357 that the lab report is highly suspect given that the carat weight doesn't make sense. Plus, finding origin seems unlikely without unsetting the stone (although not impossible), but I don't trust that the lab did that correctly.

 

[lovedogs]

Ok, so if you want a vintage/estate ruby ring, I have a few options that are less than the 6K USD you would be spending on the one you posted:

I think my favorites are 1 or 2, but obviously what I think doesn't matter haha

1. https://www.rubylane.com/item/1491081-R048/GIA-Certified-1-85-Carat-Burma?search=1
LOVE this one! It's GIA certified as Burmese, and heat only

2. https://www.rubylane.com/item/1658312-EJ-148-2018/Fine-Burma-Ruby-Ring-1-32?search=1
This one is from a vendor others have had good luck with. GIA certified as unheated burmese. Gorgeous!

3. https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...ictorian-pink-sapphire-ruby-diamond-ring.html
Not Burmese, but lovely and from Lang's who is trusted and well-regarded.

4. https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...s/natural-no-heat-ruby-diamond-halo-ring.html
Another one from Lang's. Another not Burmese, but un-heated and very nice.

 

[Kevin Bryant]

From the pinkness in the picture I dont think you would get a respectable lab in the states to call that a Ruby, it would come back pink sapphire. Alot of places, Thai land and Ceylon will call a pinker stone a ruby but at GIA or AGL you would get a call of pink sapphire

 

[milla]

Oh my gosh you are all amazing! <3

Thank you for such insightful comments, they're really really helpful. I've been daunted by this, not really knowing how to compare 'value for money'.

I agree with the sentiment that 'if I love it, it should be enough' but I'd like still to know I'm spending reasonably for what I get. The ring is pretty in person to my untrained eye, but I wasn't 100% sure about it... Now I think I'll keep looking. I just couldn't justify it to myself not knowing the quality is poor!

As a few of you said, it seems I'd be paying premium for 'unheated' and 'Burmese' but not seeing any value they add when done well.

Some of you very kindly suggested alternative rings.

Ok, so if you want a vintage/estate ruby ring, I have a few options that are less than the 6K USD you would be spending on the one you posted:

3. https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...ictorian-pink-sapphire-ruby-diamond-ring.html
Not Burmese, but lovely and from Lang's who is trusted and well-regarded.

4. https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...s/natural-no-heat-ruby-diamond-halo-ring.html
Another one from Lang's. Another not Burmese, but un-heated and very nice.

If anyone has more rings or websites they like, I would love if you could share them.

Specifically I'm after:

- Yellow gold definitely, (or loose stones).

- Antique preferably, for the character, quirk and charm, but not excluding other options either.

- Ruby/pink sapphire (not too pink or padparadscha though, aesthetically I like the carmine hue of red with just a touch of pink the best).

- So far I've liked ovals/cushions with a diamond halo, of the rings I've seen in person.

- Total budget for the ring max. £6k ideally, but with flexibility upwards too for something I can't take my mind out of. Bearing in mind that anything ordered from outside the EU will come with an import VAT of +20%...

Thank you all so much, all comments so far have been truly invaluable! <3 I'm beyond lucky to have stumbled upon here.

 

[milla]

It’s a very beautiful ring and expensive but that’not a good example of a ruby. It’s way too pink to be what most people consider a “ruby”. And it’s shallow and see through. And I’m not seeing much colour intensity or “glow”.
I feel youre paying the big premium for the words “Burmese” and “unheated” without getting the benefit or wow factor those words might be expected to bring.
This ring of mine, the stone is a pink sapphire but you can see how it has a great “colour presence” even without special fancy lighting (indoor, normal lights with an iPhone).
If you love the ring and the ruby, that’s all that matters but from an experienced buyers point of view, I think it is overpriced because the ruby isn’t living up to its name!

Thank you for the example, I can completely see what you mean by the colour!

 

[Bron357]

I think you might be better off finding a ruby and having a Victorian style ring mount made to suit.
The reasons being - A Victorian ring mount can be worn ie near the end of its useful life before fiddly (expensive) prong work is needed. I bought a sweet Victorian ruby and diamond ring and a few of the diamonds were loose and a few prongs bent / missing. It involved a full reset costing over $1,500.
But more importantly you will usually find there is no reputable lab report. A jewellers appraisal or a Gemmologists report (while the ruby is set) isn’t necessarily good enough.
Rubies are hard to buy without certification because
1. There are synthetics, yes even in the late 1800s, there are treated rubies including Beryllium diffusion and the worst - glass filled. You can’t and mustn’t assume that a ruby in an antique ring is antique and therefore not treated - people often swap and/ replace gems.
2. Paying a fair price is crucial, rubies are now a very expensive and popular gems. People like to say Burmese and/or unheated as if that is all that matters. There are plenty of ugly unheated Burmese rubies overpriced and plenty of beautiful heated rubies from Mozambique at fair prices.
Buy the gem, not the label, BUT the label must be from a reputable lab and the price appropriate for the “label”.
There are a few vendors recommended but you’ll find even a heated ruby (not Burmese) is around $4,000 plus per carat. If you prefer a more pink tone, the price will be better. A vivid red ruby is rare and expensive.
There’s a couple around $5,000 US with Africa Gems.
But don’t rush in, and don’t automatically discount anything not yellow gold or in a Victorian style. My engagement ring was going to be a pink diamond until I saw the Art Deco Emerald cut diamond ring of my dreams.
Here’s something from left field..
It’s eBay UK (business seller) and £3,950.

 

[Anne111]

The window resulting from the shallow cut would turn me off.

 

[milla]

I think you might be better off finding a ruby and having a Victorian style ring mount made to suit.
The reasons being - A Victorian ring mount can be worn ie near the end of its useful life before fiddly (expensive) prong work is needed. I bought a sweet Victorian ruby and diamond ring and a few of the diamonds were loose and a few prongs bent / missing. It involved a full reset costing over $1,500.
But more importantly you will usually find there is no reputable lab report. A jewellers appraisal or a Gemmologists report (while the ruby is set) isn’t necessarily good enough.
Rubies are hard to buy without certification because
1. There are synthetics, yes even in the late 1800s, there are treated rubies including Beryllium diffusion and the worst - glass filled. You can’t and mustn’t assume that a ruby in an antique ring is antique and therefore not treated - people often swap and/ replace gems.
2. Paying a fair price is crucial, rubies are now a very expensive and popular gems. People like to say Burmese and/or unheated as if that is all that matters. There are plenty of ugly unheated Burmese rubies overpriced and plenty of beautiful heated rubies from Mozambique at fair prices.
Buy the gem, not the label, BUT the label must be from a reputable lab and the price appropriate for the “label”.
There are a few vendors recommended but you’ll find even a heated ruby (not Burmese) is around $4,000 plus per carat. If you prefer a more pink tone, the price will be better. A vivid red ruby is rare and expensive.
There’s a couple around $5,000 US with Africa Gems.
But don’t rush in, and don’t automatically discount anything not yellow gold or in a Victorian style. My engagement ring was going to be a pink diamond until I saw the Art Deco Emerald cut diamond ring of my dreams.

Thank you for this! Completely understand the point about antique settings - I thought this could be a thing but had a really hard time getting Google to give any sort of answer, as antique sellers don't tend to mention the downsides.

In my ring search I moved from the normal Tiffany solitaire to antique diamond bombe to blue sapphire to ruby/pink sapphire. Sigh, such hard choices! But the key takeaway seems to be that it's hard to know until you know and see something you like.

Alas, the search continues and may try to look for a loose pinkish red sapphire next. We already have a local reputable jeweller we're familiar with to set things should I wish to.

Thank you again everyone for such amazing advice, I am truly indebted.

 

[milla]

3. https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...ictorian-pink-sapphire-ruby-diamond-ring.html
Not Burmese, but lovely and from Lang's who is trusted and well-regarded.

Btw thank you for the links and I really like the looks of this ring. So pretty.

 

[lovedogs]

Btw thank you for the links and I really like the looks of this ring. So pretty.

Agreed--I love that one, especially given your preferences of overall aesthetic.

 

[chrono]

Btw thank you for the links and I really like the looks of this ring. So pretty.

OMG

 

[ringo865]

^gasp beauty... fainting

 

[Bron357]

Btw thank you for the links and I really like the looks of this ring. So pretty.

That’s a really lovely ring at an excellent price point.
You can see easily how much more alive this pink sapphire is compared to the ring you originally enquired about.

 

[peacechick]

This Etsy seller has this vintage ruby ring for sale at 20% off and extra if you tell her you are a PSer. Ruby is certified by GIA unheated. I haven’t bought from her before but I know she deals in rubies quite a lot.
https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600...uery=Ruby&ref=shop_items_search_1&pro=1&frs=1

The only thing you might not like is that it’s white gold and not antique. Maybe the seller will source an antique yellow gold setting for you if you don’t mind an original-condition antique.

ETA: oops, saw that Lovedogs already suggested this ring!