Buying ring tomorrow.... is this a fair price??

[victory88]

So I've been ring shopping and finally found a stone that is close to what I'm looking for.

Oval
very good cut
2.52 carats
H
VS1
10.69 x 7.2
very good polish and very good symmetry

I don't have a picture but any thoughts on whether this would be a good diamond for the price the guy is asking. He's asking $23,700 just for the diamond and $1800 for the custom ring/setting coming out to $25500. This price is only if I pay cash. If I pay another route, it's $27495 for diamond and ring/setting. Is this guy ripping me off or is this price in line for a diamond this size/quality.

 

[bmfang]

OK, when I see a fancy shape with a cut grading provided, it can't have been graded by GIA (though GIA does grade ovals on polish and symmetry).

Limited stock at the H VS1 specs at James Allen above 2.5cts, but I did see this one there with Excellent polish & symmetry (but it does have medium blue fluorescence) for around USD21k. It looks ok, but thankfully the bowtie doesn't show itself all the time as you watch the video.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.51-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3290071

Hard to really comment on whether the stone you are planning on purchasing is a good buy as there are no pics that would enable some of the oval prosumer specialists to comment further.

Will leave it to you to make up your own mind as to whether the stone you have been offered is a good deal or not.

 

[drk14]

This looks like it may be the same oval that can be found in the PS database, which was until recently offered by IDJ for $26k bank wire price:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds/oval/2_52-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-2804074

So, if you are purchasing this oval from IDJ, the price is fine (as IDJ is known to be a reputable vendor, frequently recommended on PS). If you are purchasing this diamond (GIA #6245074608 ) from a different vendor, then make sure they have at least a 30-day return period allowing the diamond to be returned for a full refund for any reason (i.e., equivalent or better than IDJ's return policy). Make sure the return policy is in writing. If there is no equivalent money back guarantee, then you are taking a risk (especially if you have not seen the diamond in person, and had an opportunity to examine it in various lighting conditions away from jewelry showroom spotlights).

Edit: Removed emoji inserted by autocorrect...

 

[victory88]

This looks like it may be the same oval that can be found in the PS database, which was until recently offered by IDJ for $26k bank wire price:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds/oval/2_52-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-2804074

So, if you are purchasing this oval from IDJ, the price is fine (as IDJ is known to be a reputable vendor, frequently recommended on PS). If you are purchasing this diamond (GIA #6245074608 ) from a different vendor, then make sure they have at least a 30-day return period allowing the diamond to be returned for a full refund for any reason (i.e., equivalent or better than IDJ's return policy). Make sure the return policy is in writing. If there is no equivalent money back guarantee, then you are taking a risk (especially if you have not seen the diamond in person, and had an opportunity to examine it in various lighting conditions away from jewelry showroom spotlights).

Edit: Removed emoji inserted by autocorrect...

so i'm buying it from a jeweler here in dallas. he calls himself a "whole sale" jeweler and does custom stuff. has a beautiful office. the diamonds he had on him weren't to my liking.... you could see the inclusions at SI1. asked him for a VS1 or better. he found this diamond on rapnet. is that a reputable site? they are overnighting it and i will look at it tomorrow. he wants me to buy it the same day. i told him i will need a day or two to think about it. i can try to snap a pic tomorrow

thank you for the reply and yes... that looks like the exact diamond! exact same specs. crazy how you found it. if it's listed at 26k, how is he able to sell it to me for cheaper? he's knocking off taxes and giving me a cash discount apparently.

 

[HDer]

Rapnet is the main intra-dealer network, so it's reputable in the sense that almost everyone uses it.

If IDJ is listing it for 26K to consumers they're probably listing it for much less to other dealers, if they even own the stone at all. It could be a stone that they've had memoed (or lent) out to them, or one they've listed directly on their website from RapNet.

Now if he's a "wholesale" jeweler he might not offer the same kind of return policy or service IDJ offers, but that's part of why you're getting a reduction in price.

 

[Queenie60]

Is it a MUST that you purchase tomorrow or do you have time to look around? If I were spending that much I would want to weight all options. Just a thought.

 

[bmfang]

What @Queenie60 said!

And yes, what @HDer said re: Rapnet. It's a dealer system primarily for wholesale trade of diamonds. Even if he is going to sell it to you for $23k, there's still gotta be a profit delta in it for him to do so. So HDer's comment that the wholesale price has gotta be lower than the $26k price listed for consumers would be right.

Just looked at the GIA report. There's a cavity in the stone on the edge near the girdle. For me, I'd be a little concerned given how close it appears to the girdle on the inclusion plot. Maybe @tyty333 or @Karl_K would be able to comment further on whether the location of the cavity might pose a risk further down the track.

Apart from that, it does not look that bad of a stone based off the Segoma 3D image when one rotates it around though I can see the indented natural and cavity at that magnification level.

 

[victory88]

i do not want to buy tomorrow, but the dealer is pressuring me into it telling me i won't find a better stone or price than he is offering me. after reading these posts, i'm going to look at others and compare. this diamond is listed cheaper on diamond ideals than what the jeweler is quoting me. he wanted almost 27k including taxes for this diamond. it's listed at 22.8k on diamond ideals.

 

[victory88]

What @Queenie60 said!

And yes, what @HDer said re: Rapnet. It's a dealer system primarily for wholesale trade of diamonds. Even if he is going to sell it to you for $23k, there's still gotta be a profit delta in it for him to do so. So HDer's comment that the wholesale price has gotta be lower than the $26k price listed for consumers would be right.

Just looked at the GIA report. There's a cavity in the stone on the edge near the girdle. For me, I'd be a little concerned given how close it appears to the girdle on the inclusion plot. Maybe @tyty333 or @Karl_K would be able to comment further on whether the location of the cavity might pose a risk further down the track.

Apart from that, it does not look that bad of a stone based off the Segoma 3D image when one rotates it around though I can see the indented natural and cavity at that magnification level.

thank you for the reply. what would be possible future risks of the cavity being on the girdle. also, the public doesn't have access to the segoma 3d image right? i can't find any pictures of this stone online but i will see it tomorrow in person.

you guys have been very helpful. i was getting ready to drop 25.5k tomorrow cash for a this diamond and the ring setting which is 1800. that would make the diamond 23.7k. i would save almost a grand if i bought it off diamond ideals

 

[bmfang]

If you are gonna drop that much cash, take your time. Diamonds are a commodity item. What you miss out on today, there is likely to be something similar or better available tomorrow. Follow your gut and not what a dealer is pressuring you towards.

And if you are so inclined, keep in touch with us here on PS if you are wanting some further feedback on this particular stone.

The public does have access to that segoma image. It's linked to on the PS listing page which is publicly available (though you do have to edit the address to get to it as well as the GIA report, somehow PS has screwed up the web addresses for those two items).

Or here.
Segoma 3D image: https://segoma.com/v.php?type=inner&id=QLWCUZHCSS
GIA report number 6245074608: https://erp.barakdiamonds.com/Kanner/Output/Certificates/6245074608.pdf

 

[bmfang]

what would be possible future risks of the cavity being on the girdle.

My concern would be that if the stone when set into a ring accidentally gets whacked onto the side of a table, a rock, etc and it happens to be where the cavity is located on the girdle (even if it is covered over with a prong). The force generated from that knock could end up forming a crack that extends from the girdle to the cavity. And that will knock off value from your stone if you ever were to sell it on the second-hand/pre-owned marketplace. Hence the reason why I'm calling in tyty333, Karl K and other more knowledgeable folks on this forum to see if they have any thoughts on it.

Granted, the diamond has undergone extreme stresses when it has been polished, so if the cavity has survived the cleaving process and then the cutting/polishing process, maybe it's ok. But while diamond has exceptional hardness, it can also be an exceptionally brittle gemstone if it is hit at just the right angle.

Ovals aren't really the shape of diamond that I look at on a regular basis but when I see a cavity inclusion on any grading report and if the report includes a plot, I get concerned when I see it sitting so close to the girdle. If it was buried further down into the body of the stone, I wouldn't be as concerned.

 

[Queenie60]

I do not know your timetable. However, go to augustvintage.inc. Rhino (John) is currently producing the"ideal oval" which is quite exciting. Fill out the questionnaire and he will get back to you. If you have a bit of time to shop for the very best, this is where you should go. And his email to me was quite a surprise, the ovals are not out of line expensive. If I were spending in excess of $20,000 I would want to exercise all options. Just don't want to see you settle for an ok stone at a very high price. As bmfang stated, diamonds are a commodity item and more will be available in the near future. If this jeweler is pressuring you and stating that you won't find anything better, urgency is a red flag. Just my opinion for what it's worth. Good luck to you. I hope you find the best stone within your budget.

 

[Queenie60]

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-jonathan-rhino-for-his-exciting-news.234130/

Check out this thread - pertains to my post above. Good luck.

 

[victory88]

i don't need the diamond till end of november. i'm flying to hawaii on nov 28 and need the ring before then which gives me about 2.5 months. i'm going to check out his site right now.

 

[soxfan]

Not sure what setting you are thinking of, but I'd look into this one- I know she said she was negotiable on the price and it's a very expensive high quality setting. The stone was vetted by GOG.

https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings-natural-diamond-center/steven-kirsch-and-gog-oval-halo

 

[ringo865]

The only pressure commonly accepted with regard to diamonds, should be during the stone's formation - not while purchasing (or contemplating a purchase). Just saying.

 

[tyty333]

victory88 - you need to look at the different types of oval cuts. That stone you are looking at is a 4 main which has a particular look.
I, myself, prefer a more traditional look (6 or 8 main) but it all depends what you like.

Cut examples...ignore color/clarity/size...just look at faceting pattern. Also look at GIA report...bottom of the stone to see how the stone is cut.
You need to decide what look you like and ask your jeweler to bring those cuts in)

4 main examples
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.21-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-2156298
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m=200&PriceTo=&ViewsOptions=Images&Shape=oval

6 main examples
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.35-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-769783
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.54-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3138865

8 main... Watch out for leakiness under the table towards pointed ends.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.23-carat-f-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3056078

8 main offset arrows
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.70-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3427785

I located these pretty fast. I'm sure there are better examples out there but I wanted you to see the different in the cuts so you could decide
which cut(s) you liked.

 

[victory88]

thank you tyty.

I never considered 4 vs 6 vs 8 main. what would be the main difference in the cut? this is all new to me? does 4 main reflect light differently or lose more light? etc?

 

[victory88]

what are your guy's thoughts on this diamond?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.51-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3290071

it has a medium blue fluorescence. is this significant to the naked eye, in natural light or inside lighting?

also, would you consider this to have a significant bow tie? how would you compare this diamond to the this one below in the link that i was originally planning on buying

https://segoma.com/v.php?type=inner&id=QLWCUZHCSS

 

[OoohShiny]

As already said above, there are rarely 'deals' on diamonds and there are always more coming on to the market - any high pressure sales tactics should be a red flag to walk away quickly!

If you can wait 2 and a half months, hopefully that would enable you to get one of Rhino's new ovals - much better light return than a standard oval!

 

[victory88]

As already said above, there are rarely 'deals' on diamonds and there are always more coming on to the market - any high pressure sales tactics should be a red flag to walk away quickly!

If you can wait 2 and a half months, hopefully that would enable you to get one of Rhino's new ovals - much better light return than a standard oval!

I signed up for rhinos list. are the diamonds he cuts GIA certified? they look beautiful on the website, i was looking at them last night. i would ideally need it at the latest late october as i will need to set it and that process can take a few weeks. I'll email him and get more info. As a novice, I'm wondering what makes his new oval better and how will it look compared to the ones i see at these jewelers. a lot for me to learn.

 

[OoohShiny]

You would have to confirm with @Rhino to be completely sure, but I am 99.999% sure that they will either go via GIA or AGS for grading!

Did you watch all of the video of the new cut in the thread linked to above? That shows the comparison between a standard oval cut (with the usual 'bow tie' that is present) and the new cut - you won't see the new cut anywhere but from Rhino at this moment in time, and in the video you can see how much brighter it is, how much more 'fire' it has (the coloured flashes of light), and how much more balanced the light return is across the entire stone (rather than being focused on the middle section only).

Although we only have the video at this moment in time, I think it fair to say that you will not find a stone that performs as well as this new cut in any bricks-and-mortar store.

Hopefully @Rhino can confirm timescales for expected delivery of the new stones either here or in direct response to your email query

 

[tyty333]

4 mains usually are considered more "crushed ice" kinds of stones due to the lack of symmetry under the table and the usually smaller facets
that twinkle (more facets though) vs bigger flashing facets. The stone that you are looking at is one of the nicer 4 mains that I've seen and I*
do not think it has a bow-tie of significance.

what are your guy's thoughts on this diamond?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.51-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3290071
I also like this stone very much. It has some bigger facets in the center. It would be nice if your jeweler could bring both stones in at once and let you pick the one that speaks to you.

it has a medium blue fluorescence. is this significant to the naked eye, in natural light or inside lighting?
Med Fluor should not be an issue. Its only Very Stone Fluor that can have issues and it is rare (but we have seen a few).

also, would you consider this to have a significant bow tie? how would you compare this diamond to the this one below in the link that i was originally planning on buying

I prefer a standard looking oval (more like a round brilliant with a 6 or 8 main) BUT this stone is not for me. What do you like? I wish you could see them both at once to help you make a decision.
https://segoma.com/v.php?type=inner&id=QLWCUZHCSS

Here is a GOG video that shows a comparison of 3 ovals. The center stone is a 4 main. They like the 3rd stone the best...I like to see a better "feather" of
facets from the bigger center facets to the smaller facets. I dont think the 3rd stone feathers very well (this stone would not work for me).
Anyway, you can see some of the difference between a 4 main and the other two (first one looks to be an 8 main offset and the last one I'm not sure).

There are a lot of other oval videos by GOG on youtube. I would watch as many as you can.

 

[KKJohnson]

Who are you buying from in Dallas? I also live in the DFW area and had looked around, I thought that Diamond Exchange was a decent place with pretty straight forward people to work with. They didn't "beat around the bush" so to speak with looking at diamonds and I did not feel pressured. I have heard of some good vendors at the world trade center but I would have to find their names again. A dealer should never pressure you into buying a stone no matter what the cost was, it is large purchase and that would worry me if I was being pushed into buying quickly.