Buying my first diamond, (images included..)

[ChrisG]

Hi

I'm currently looking at buying an engagement ring and have gone the route of sourcing a diamond online as the local stores simply don't have the quality I'm after and souring through them it's clear the profit margins they make, I've read a ton of write ups on what to look for etc and so now I'm more paranoid than ever on buying one without seeing it...

I've found a diamond that was listed as "perfect" 100/100 on the seller's site and gia: D, EX EX EX, FL 0.5c and have since asked for ASET and Ideal Scope images, however I'm a little disappointed in the images provided, although they may hint to the quality of the diamond i do not have enough experience with this as so I hope that those of you here that deal with this on a more frequent basis can help guide me to inform if this is in fact a high quality cut diamond and worthy of a purchase.

I have since asked for better quality images (top dead centre/bottom centre), as the seller themselves even stated that the quality of the images was poor (which is strange to provide something you know is sub par when dealing with images where the soul purpose is to indicate quality) however.. i digress.. images below and I'll update the thread with further images when they arrive. It's clear that the images aren't quire TDC, however I hope that they indicate positive results in quality.

any feedback, advice is most welcome

Details:
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1192036403

images attached:

 

[ecf8503]

It's a "60/60" diamond - read this :https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond

It will likely be bright, but will favor white light return over fire (colored light return), instead of a nice balance of the 2. If you're going for top quality (D,Fl), you need to consider cut quality instead - otherwise what's the point of D/Fl if it doesn't sparkle and return light ideally?

Is there a reason for such high color / clarity?

 

[ChrisG]

Thanks for the information.

Do you know of any other articles that I should read with regards to cut. And what proportions should I look for, likewise are there specific online stores that display this info. A lot of the stores I've found online are often vague in the details they provide

This will be the only time I buy a diamond for someone, as such I want it to be as perfect as possible. Which is why I'm after IF/FL D .

 

[skypie]

Although you want it to be perfect will the wearer be able to distinguish the D/FL color/clarity from a lower grade? If not, and the wearer isn't mentally bothered by something less than perfection you could get a diamond for much cheaper....or a much LARGER stone (probably approaching .8-.9 ct) that may look the same to the naked eye of the wearer in terms of color and clarity.

Thanks for the information.

Do you know of any other articles that I should read with regards to cut. And what proportions should I look for, likewise are there specific online stores that display this info. A lot of the stores I've found online are often vague in the details they provide

This will be the only time I buy a diamond for someone, as such I want it to be as perfect as possible. Which is why I'm after IF/FL D .

 

[farrahlyn]

Yeah those images are pretty terrible. There are commonly suggested parameters to stay in to make sure you have a nicely cut stone: (There are of course exceptions) and anything under 2 on the HCA bears further scrutiny

Depth: 60-62.3
Table: 53-58
Crown Angle: 34-35 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
Pavillion: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

If you're looking for PERFECT then go with a superideal. Although i WILL argue for a minute about the "perfect" stone you're looking for. MANY if not most women would prefer a larger stone in a lower color and clarity. I feel like, why pay for a D/FL stone you can't distinguish from a G/SI1 stone? There are perfectly eye clean SI1 stones and many people have a hard time telling a D from a F or even G.

Anyway, if you're looking for absolute perfection, i'd go with a superideal like Whiteflash or Brian Gavin. BG has several stones with your criteria:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...MIx-f0lIe62QIVEyhpCh07xwSdEAAYASABEgLSKPD_BwE

 

[pockystix]

If you are looking for an ideal cut gia xxx, use the parameters of the stone to determine if the HCA score (calculator in the tools resource section of forum) is less than 2 to see if worthy of further consideration. Ideal scope and aset images will help as well.

Or any of the super ideals will have an amazing cut and you do not need to worry about! Perhaps dropping and staying in the colorless range F, and mind clean vs1 clarity will allow you to increase the size of the diamond, which is likely something more people will notice.

 

[WinkHPD]

As a member of the trade I cannot speak about someone else's diamond. My comments below are thus generic, not this stone specifically.

As a diamond approaches the weight where there is a price jump, such as 1/4, 1/3/, 1/2, 1 ct etc., there is a tremendous temptation for the cutter to cut a stone that makes the very wide GIA Ex cut grade and weighs that price jump weight, rather than cut it to maximize beauty but sell for less money because it does not make that price jump weight.

If, I look at the estimated price for a 0.49 ct well cut grade D-IF diamond using the Rapaport price calculator, versus a .50 ct well cut grade D-IF diamond. The net price difference is $1,148 at wholesale. Now, assuming that the cutter can cut it a little worse and make that well cut grade and only get paid an extra $800 over the 0.49 ct, what do you think the vast majority of the cutters in the world are going to do?

Maybe he has to cut it a lot worse, still getting the GIA Ex cut grade, and only makes $100 more for the stone. Easier to be strict here, right? Not necessarily since his cutting house is cutting thousands of stones per month and he will be fired for making such a horrible mistake and "only" finishing a 0.49 ct diamond.

This is why there are millions of GIA Ex cut diamonds that are very hard to sell online, but are snapped up by buyers at Bricks and Mortar stores that have not done any cut grade research. Some GIA Ex diamonds are incredible, many more are less so, simply because there is more money to be made by cutting to the edges of the grade. Beauty is sought by all, but since all of the junk looks pretty good in the jewelry store's lighting, it is hard for the average buyer to know what is great and what is less than great.

It is up to the buyer to do his/her homework and know what is likely to be incredible, and what is likely to NOT be incredible.

Wink

P.S. I only used the Rapaport price calculator rather than looking for real diamonds on the market as there are so few well cut diamonds in the just under the half carat mark.

 

[ChrisG]

Thank you all so much for the replies, all very informative advice that I will consider going forwards. Any additional advice and resources is much appreciated I'll keep this thread updated on my progress and I very much appreciate all of the advice and considerations

 

[HappyNewLife]

if D/IF are what you need to be happy, it's probably a good diamond given the specs. It's a 60/60 diamond, which I personally like and it saves you $. Assuming it's priced well, I'd go for it. I'd personally go bigger and drop to an H/VS2 though

 

[starrylight]

Does anyone else have concerns about the IS image?
They appear crudely photoshopped to my eyes.

 

[ChrisG]

the images were taken with an iphone according to the dealer, Honestly i was expecting a proper photo rather than a photo taken with a phone, I'll update with following images tomorrow when i receive them

 

[ringo865]

Look at any of these:
Crafted by Infinity by High Performance Diamonds,
A Cut Above by Whiteflash
The Signature or Black by Brian Gavin Diamonds,
Ascendancy (?) by Good Old Gold
Probably others...

 

[pasc43]

As a member of the trade I cannot speak about someone else's diamond. My comments below are thus generic, not this stone specifically.

As a diamond approaches the weight where there is a price jump, such as 1/4, 1/3/, 1/2, 1 ct etc., there is a tremendous temptation for the cutter to cut a stone that makes the very wide GIA Ex cut grade and weighs that price jump weight, rather than cut it to maximize beauty but sell for less money because it does not make that price jump weight.

If, I look at the estimated price for a 0.49 ct well cut grade D-IF diamond using the Rapaport price calculator, versus a .50 ct well cut grade D-IF diamond. The net price difference is $1,148 at wholesale. Now, assuming that the cutter can cut it a little worse and make that well cut grade and only get paid an extra $800 over the 0.49 ct, what do you think the vast majority of the cutters in the world are going to do?

Maybe he has to cut it a lot worse, still getting the GIA Ex cut grade, and only makes $100 more for the stone. Easier to be strict here, right? Not necessarily since his cutting house is cutting thousands of stones per month and he will be fired for making such a horrible mistake and "only" finishing a 0.49 ct diamond.

This is why there are millions of GIA Ex cut diamonds that are very hard to sell online, but are snapped up by buyers at Bricks and Mortar stores that have not done any cut grade research. Some GIA Ex diamonds are incredible, many more are less so, simply because there is more money to be made by cutting to the edges of the grade. Beauty is sought by all, but since all of the junk looks pretty good in the jewelry store's lighting, it is hard for the average buyer to know what is great and what is less than great.

It is up to the buyer to do his/her homework and know what is likely to be incredible, and what is likely to NOT be incredible.

Wink

P.S. I only used the Rapaport price calculator rather than looking for real diamonds on the market as there are so few well cut diamonds in the just under the half carat mark.

I am not sure i get the underlining point. Don't buy diamonds close to the weight/price cutoffs? Or that GIA Ex Cut is meaningless?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I love D IF all day long. And I recommend that combo wherever I can. I like to support posters choices and reasons.

But I am not completely unrealistic--that weight at EXACTY .50 was no happy accident. Yes 60/60's can be very nice--but (especially) in a D IF--weight benchmarks are everything. Wink alluded to this. You may have perfection in color and clarity but cut, not so much. If you want D IF--then get the whole enchilada. CUT perfection. Please?

At any rate--what are the vendors trade up policies? I know you said one ring to rule them all....but ya never know.

Let us know how it unfolds.

FWIW:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3952896.htm

cheers--Sharon

 

[WinkHPD]

I am not sure i get the underlining point. Don't buy diamonds close to the weight/price cutoffs? Or that GIA Ex Cut is meaningless?

My point is that many cutters will "fudge" the dimensions and the cut quality to land at a price break weight. If a stone should properly weight 0.35 cts if cut to an AGS 0 cut quality but it can be "fudged" to hit 0.50 or 0.51 or even more while maintaining the same color and clarity grades, then you can count on it being "fudged" by all but the most focused cutters.

If the diamond is at the beginning of the next price category and is magnificently cut, then wow, sweet. If it should have been down in the lower category, the wow, what a bummer that you paid too much for a poorly cut rock.

When it comes value, that better cut 0.35 is a much better value than that poorly cut 0.50 that may be only a little more expensive, but much less attractive. The cutters of these more expensive. but less beautiful rocks know exactly what they are doing, but it is more profitable for them, so they do it anyway.

Wink

 

[whitewave]

OP, where are you located and do traditions or culture considerations lean you toward a D/IF?

 

[rockysalamander]

For the images, first they have to actually get the diamond clean. Then, they need to hold the diamond in a "3rd" hand type setup if they don't have a proper scope. The images above are pretty bad to even read. To me, the low crown angle is very problemmatic in that is will tend to have little fire and suffer from poor light return in more circumstances. Especially when viewed closely, the viewer's head blocks the light from entering the table and the low crown offers fewer angles of light for the diamond to accept.

These angles will perform better. These are all D IF.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3888113
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3070010
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4438320
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4438320

But, if I was looking for high color and clarity and sticking to a $3k budget (estimated from the specs provided) I'd pick one of these (or something with proportions such as these) to gain size, gain fire, gain light return. All of these retain the colorless and exceptional clarity. The 3 from Whiteflash as super-ideal with exception light return and fire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3823416.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816342.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3855450.htm
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4485018
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3580471
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4361212

 

[TreeScientist]

For the images, first they have to actually get the diamond clean. Then, they need to hold the diamond in a "3rd" hand type setup if they don't have a proper scope. The images above are pretty bad to even read. To me, the low crown angle is very problemmatic in that is will tend to have little fire and suffer from poor light return in more circumstances. Especially when viewed closely, the viewer's head blocks the light from entering the table and the low crown offers fewer angles of light for the diamond to accept.

These angles will perform better. These are all D IF.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3888113
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3070010
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4438320
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-d-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4438320

But, if I was looking for high color and clarity and sticking to a $3k budget (estimated from the specs provided) I'd pick one of these (or something with proportions such as these) to gain size, gain fire, gain light return. All of these retain the colorless and exceptional clarity. The 3 from Whiteflash as super-ideal with exception light return and fire
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3823416.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3816342.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3855450.htm
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4485018
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3580471
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4361212

Just came in to add that I really like the .596 carat E VVS2 from WhiteFlash posted above by @rockysalamander. If you're at all flexible with the color and clarity, that would be an excellent choice.

If you're still not sure about going from D to E in color, go to a jeweler and ask to see unset diamonds in different colors. I'd be very surprised if you could tell the difference between a D and an E (or a D and a F for that matter).

 

[ChrisG]

Updated images

 

[ChrisG]

Thanks for the additional replies over the night, I have further things to consider that I wasn't aware of