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99.2% of recent US Covid deaths were unvaccinated people

VRBeauty

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The headline essay in Huffpost this morning is about married couples for whom the vax-no vax decision is the breaking point (though to be absolutely accurate, in most cases it has as much to do with conspiracy theories as the vaccination decision.) In several cases there are children involved.

I’m just glad my spouse and I are on the same page with regards to vaccinations, even though we differ - by degrees - on other aspects of the covid response.
 

Diamond Girl 21

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And we totally understand if you were medically advised not to take the vaccine.

It’s the ones who refuse for no good reason that baffles me.

End of the day, imo it’s down to probability:
- 1. Chance of catching covid and dying or suffering some long term effects vs
- 2. Chance of taking the vaccine and suffering some adverse reaction and dying

If chance of #1 is low as the pandemic is well controlled, then why risk #2?

But if #1 is high, then #2 is a much better proposition. Today, we are in a situation where the likelihood of catching covid is high. It will become endemic as the experts say

Also for people who can take the vaccine (ie not medically advised against it), but think that you have some underlying condition that puts you at risk of dying from the vaccination, what makes you think that you will come out of a covid infection in a better state? Chances are, the outcome of an infection will not be favorable for you right?

So I really don’t understand. End of rant.

I decided to share more info in case someone else is going through something similar. My hope is that they won't feel so alone in their struggle. Also, no offense, but perhaps "you'll get it" with my explanation.

I'm a strong person, truly, but for the last two years it's been a daily struggle with my autoimmune issues. I am exhausted. I have not been able to achieve remission. There always seems to be another health issue popping up. I have had issues with the various medications that were prescribed. I've had issues with past vaccines.

Now let's discuss covid. I am not anti vaccine. I probably would not do well if I got covid, however because of my complicated medical history, every single one of my specialists cautioned me about the vaccine. Generally, it is believed to be safe, however, there just isn't enough data concerning people with autoimmune disease, and in fact some people are experiencing flares or developing autoimmune issues after the vaccine. I believe in following science. I believe in listening to the facts. My original thought was to wait for more data. In the meantime, I only go to doctors appointments, and always wear a mask. I can control that, but I can't control a possible reaction to a vaccine.

Having said all that, since so many people are vaccinated, and some are no longer wearing masks or social distancing, I just don't feel safe and will most likely get the vaccine if my specialists agree, but this is not an easy decision for me.
 
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Phoenix

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Yes, it IS just awful. I'm sorry you're still dealing with this!!! Mega PS dust to you!!!


I am actually mostly ok, much much better than before. Just scared that i might have a vertigo attack with this vaccine. But I shall prep as much as I can and forge ahead! Thank yoouuuuu! x
 

Phoenix

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I didn't ask because I didn't want to pry.

For those with health risks, I understand how difficult the decision is over whether to get the vaccine or not is. So much uncertainty either way. Heck, I had my own concerns with no risks.

One of my aunts is severely immune compromised and her doctor suggested she pass/wait when the vaccines were announced. She stayed at home and was extremely cautious with any deliveries - boxes sat in the garage for 3 days, everything wiped down, even reheated takeout in the microwave). She only recently decided to get jabbed because 1) she wants to see my mother when we fly out next month and 2) the Delta variant. Fortunately, like many others, she hasn't had any unexpected side effects to date - wishing you the same.


Thank you sooo much. x
 

Dancing Fire

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Having said all that, since so many people are vaccinated, and some are no longer wearing masks or social distancing, I just don't feel safe and will most likely get the vaccine if my specialists agree, but this is not an easy decision for me.
If you aren't comfortable don't let others shame you into taking the vaccine.
 

Phoenix

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Fluticasone Propionate. Apparently it’s the same as Flonase. My hubby used to get the random vertigo attacks every six months or so, and they were debilitating. He’d get long bouts of nausea followed by diarrhea, and then he’d have to sleep the whole thing off for a few hours. He pilots a small plane - I was concerned one of these bouts might hit while he was flying. But he hasn’t had a single incident since a doctor prescribed the nasal spray about two years ago. I’m still amazed such a simple remedy does the trick! (I also have a prescription for the stuff, for seasonal allergies, but I only use it as needed because I experience some mild side effects.)


That's AMAZING!! I am going ask my GP for this!!

Yeah, the risk of having a vertigo attack while plying a plane does not bear thinking about!! Glad that his Dr was able to prescribe this med to your hubby which has done the trick. Sooo happy for him.

Thank you for posting, @VRBeauty .x
 

lovedogs

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I decided to share more info in case someone else is going through something similar. My hope is that they won't feel so alone in their struggle. Also, no offense, but perhaps "you'll get it" with my explanation.

I'm a strong person, truly, but for the last two years it's been a daily struggle with my autoimmune issues. I am exhausted. I have not been able to achieve remission. There always seems to be another health issue popping up. I have had issues with the various medications that were prescribed. I've had issues with past vaccines.

Now let's discuss covid. I am not anti vaccine. I probably would not do well if I got covid, however because of my complicated medical history, every single one of my specialists cautioned me about the vaccine. Generally, it is believed to be safe, however, there just isn't enough data concerning people with autoimmune disease, and in fact some people are experiencing flares or developing autoimmune issues after the vaccine. I believe in following science. I believe in listening to the facts. My original thought was to wait for more data. In the meantime, I only go to doctors appointments, and always wear a mask. I can control that, but I can't control a possible reaction to a vaccine.

Having said all that, since so many people are vaccinated, and some are no longer wearing masks or social distancing, I just don't feel safe and will most likely get the vaccine if my specialists agree, but this is not an easy decision for me.

Your case is definitely not one I would ever judge. The fact that you have been advised by specialists to be cautious is completely different than those who dont have conditions which would make the vaccine risky. Or, worse yet, folks who haven't spoken to a dr about it and are "doing their own research" via YouTube or anecdotes rather than actual science. I am truly sorry for what you have gone through, and absolutely understand the hesitancy given info from specialists
 

Venti25

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I have primary sjogrens and fibromyalgia. In Australia chronic auto immune allowed you to be prioritised and I received Pfizer. Headache and sore arm from first dose, a sore arm and a bit of fatigue and muscle ache the second dose lasting a few days (delayed onset). There's news today a 30 yr old died in NSW with no pre existing conditions today from the Delta variant so I'm happy to be vaccinated.

Edit: spelling :)
 

missy

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I decided to share more info in case someone else is going through something similar. My hope is that they won't feel so alone in their struggle. Also, no offense, but perhaps "you'll get it" with my explanation.

I'm a strong person, truly, but for the last two years it's been a daily struggle with my autoimmune issues. I am exhausted. I have not been able to achieve remission. There always seems to be another health issue popping up. I have had issues with the various medications that were prescribed. I've had issues with past vaccines.

Now let's discuss covid. I am not anti vaccine. I probably would not do well if I got covid, however because of my complicated medical history, every single one of my specialists cautioned me about the vaccine. Generally, it is believed to be safe, however, there just isn't enough data concerning people with autoimmune disease, and in fact some people are experiencing flares or developing autoimmune issues after the vaccine. I believe in following science. I believe in listening to the facts. My original thought was to wait for more data. In the meantime, I only go to doctors appointments, and always wear a mask. I can control that, but I can't control a possible reaction to a vaccine.

Having said all that, since so many people are vaccinated, and some are no longer wearing masks or social distancing, I just don't feel safe and will most likely get the vaccine if my specialists agree, but this is not an easy decision for me.

Dear @Diamond Girl 21 I adore you and I am so sorry for all you are going through. Continued healing wishes being sent your way and gentle hugs. This is a very difficult decision and am keeping you in my thoughts.
 

FL_runner

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I think something to remember is that although the vaccine has side effects (which is expected, as it is activating the immune system) overall COVID has a much higher chance of causing side effects, and the side effects are more severe. The side effects from the vaccine tend to me milder and limited forms of some of the side effects from COVID. I had 24 hours of migraine and severe muscle aches after my second shot of moderna, for example, which I was not surprised by and likely means the vaccine was working well. Statistically much more likely to have a severe reaction from COVID than the vaccine (although each vaccine is quite different and has a slightly different risk profile). Individual risk should be worked through with a persons medical team but in the majority of people it makes sense to vaccinate from a medical perspective- not everyone though which is why those of us with no contraindications should go ahead to protect everyone.

Another important element is that for those with autoimmune conditions a vaccine is generally strongly recommended and those people are in priority groups- however, if you are on an immunosuppressant medication the vaccine may not work as well and you may receive a more partial immunity- still helpful to prevent severe complications but still requiring attention to risk of contracting COVID as you would be more likely to contract a breakthrough infection.

In my area we have a high percentage of Delta variant and I have had a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated who are currently sick. The vaccinated folks, as expected, have had mild symptoms and are not hospitalized.

Even if one is not severely ill, it still makes sense to vaccinate- for kids for example they miss about 2 weeks of school and parents need to miss work to care for them, they are miserable because they’re sick, and they spread it easily because they are not really able to isolate when sick (you can’t lock a 2 y/o in a room alone if they’re sick!). The people they spread it to may be vulnerable, like elderly family.
 

missy

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@FL_runner what are your thoughts regarding a third (booster) vaccine?
 

FL_runner

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@FL_runner what are your thoughts regarding a third (booster) vaccine?

I think that COVID is likely to become an endemic virus (like influenza) and we will end up having an annual recommended shot like the flu shot. For the short term I would not be surprised if a booster is recommended for those who vaccinated early once we get around the year mark. We know the antibodies from infection with COVID last about 3 months with a low chance of reinfection/severe illness but much of this is still being examined for the vaccines. Additionally the efficacy rates of the vaccine are reduction in severe illness or death, not overall infection- and we see that some of the more infectious variants like delta are causing breakthrough illness. Eventually the vaccines may be modified to address the prevalent variant/variants going around (like the flu shot tries to).

Not a vaccine expert though, just best guess as a doc combing through info on all this!
 

Matata

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A story on the national news tonight reported that in one of the states where covid is surging, people who were formerly vaccine hesitant are getting the jab. They're disguising their appearance at the vaccination sites so friends and family don't know they got the vaccine. That same state is setting up privacy-ensuring vaccine sites to protect people from being identified. Eerily similar to Lord of the Flies.
 

kenny

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A story on the national news tonight reported that in one of the states where covid is surging, people who were formerly vaccine hesitant are getting the jab. They're disguising their appearance at the vaccination sites so friends and family don't know they got the vaccine. That same state is setting up privacy-ensuring vaccine sites to protect people from being identified. Eerily similar to Lord of the Flies.
If that news story is true, what pathetic and cowardly hypocrites! :nono:
 
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W

westofhere

Guest
Absolutely heartbreaking. And then when you think that these little ones died and are dying because of lack of access to something U.S. citizens have full and free access to but in their privileged stupidity are refusing—no words.

 

icy_jade

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@FL_runner what are your thoughts regarding a third (booster) vaccine?

Americans are so privileged to be thinking about a booster shot when most of the world is still unable to even get the first shot.

You know, the worldwide vaccine shortages finally eased a bit when US finally didn’t need so much vaccines.

So the fact that there are so many Americans who refuse to be vaccinated maybe isn’t such a bad thing for the rest of the world…

 
W

westofhere

Guest
Honestly it would be karmic justice if the government said: If U.S. adults aren’t vaccinated by September 1st, all of those vaccines are going to other countries. But knowing America, that would just lead to a run on vaccines as the far right news media would suddenly be up in arms (and Americans literally up in arms) about vaccines going to countries the last President deemed sh*th*les.
 

missy

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Americans are so privileged to be thinking about a booster shot when most of the world is still unable to even get the first shot.

You know, the worldwide vaccine shortages finally eased a bit when US finally didn’t need so much vaccines.

So the fact that there are so many Americans who refuse to be vaccinated maybe isn’t such a bad thing for the rest of the world…


Actually I believe the UK is ahead of us and planning a third booster shot for those over the age of 50 before this coming Winter. The sooner the booster is given the better for everyone. To squash the variants before new ones develop.


Honestly it would be karmic justice if the government said: If U.S. adults aren’t vaccinated by September 1st, all of those vaccines are going to other countries

Agreed. Let's get vaccines into the arms of people who want them ASAP. It is the only way we are going to end the pandemic and save as many lives as possible. As a world we need to work together to end the pandemic.

There is no keeping anyone safe if we aren't keeping everyone safe. That's the way this pandemic works. If the great majority of people don't get vaccinated everywhere we are all in trouble.
 

FL_runner

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Americans are so privileged to be thinking about a booster shot when most of the world is still unable to even get the first shot.

You know, the worldwide vaccine shortages finally eased a bit when US finally didn’t need so much vaccines.

So the fact that there are so many Americans who refuse to be vaccinated maybe isn’t such a bad thing for the rest of the world…


I agree that vaccine equity is a huge concern- I was definitely answering from a scientific perspective as opposed to a "is this ethically fair" perspective. I work in global health right now and we've been talking about getting vaccines out to other countries for many months now- there's a lot of legal/political issue surrounding how the US donates (through COVAX for the bulk of donation) and later through limited direct donation to multiple countries. We've also focused on humanitarian donations to build up international vaccine programs, including cold chain and logistical needs. And items for overburdened health systems like mobile hospitals, PPE, etc. Expert level coordination to modify existing vaccination programs for the requirements of the COVID vaccines and reality of the pandemic. I agree it is tragic to see the devastation COVID has caused internationally and vaccines being rolled out first in wealthy nations is very problematic. We should definitely be getting first doses out to others if folks in the US choose not to vaccinate, the more people worldwide vaccinated the better!

I feel that many people in the US should have the reality check of visiting some other places- I have seen families walk for days from remote villages just to get their kids vaccinated for things like measles- infectious diseases have been a major cause of morbidity and mortality throughout human existence and it's only very recently that medicine has been able to mitigate this (through...of course... vaccination! And public health/preventive medicine/sanitation). But then, I would have thought that so many people losing loved ones to COVID in the US would have changed more people's minds.
 

icy_jade

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Actually I believe the UK is ahead of us and planning a third booster shot for those over the age of 50 before this coming Winter. The sooner the booster is given the better for everyone. To squash the variants before new ones develop.

Yes citizens in both UK and US are privileged - I was highlighting countries where most people have already been vaccinated vs those that never managed to secure vaccines to even do the first round. The haves vs have-nots.
 

rainwood

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I decided to share more info in case someone else is going through something similar. My hope is that they won't feel so alone in their struggle. Also, no offense, but perhaps "you'll get it" with my explanation.

I'm a strong person, truly, but for the last two years it's been a daily struggle with my autoimmune issues. I am exhausted. I have not been able to achieve remission. There always seems to be another health issue popping up. I have had issues with the various medications that were prescribed. I've had issues with past vaccines.

Now let's discuss covid. I am not anti vaccine. I probably would not do well if I got covid, however because of my complicated medical history, every single one of my specialists cautioned me about the vaccine. Generally, it is believed to be safe, however, there just isn't enough data concerning people with autoimmune disease, and in fact some people are experiencing flares or developing autoimmune issues after the vaccine. I believe in following science. I believe in listening to the facts. My original thought was to wait for more data. In the meantime, I only go to doctors appointments, and always wear a mask. I can control that, but I can't control a possible reaction to a vaccine.

Having said all that, since so many people are vaccinated, and some are no longer wearing masks or social distancing, I just don't feel safe and will most likely get the vaccine if my specialists agree, but this is not an easy decision for me.

I'm posting in case this is helpful. My adult niece has multiple auto-immune issues, probably a dozen or more, including Type I diabetes, RA, connective tissue disorder, scleroderma, Sjogren's, and others I can't even remember. So many she's almost a medical unicorn. She's had both shots of Pfizer with no flare-ups of any of them. She did have some side effects, like tired, sore arm, headache, etc. but it did not trigger any of her AI issues. She was prioritized to get the vaccine because of her many AI issues, and she was anxious to get it because she's a teacher.
 

missy

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Yes citizens in both UK and US are privileged - I was highlighting countries where most people have already been vaccinated vs those that never managed to secure vaccines to even do the first round. The haves vs have-nots.

Yes. The disparities are great. It is sad this is the world we live in and I wish everyone had the same advantages and privileges we do. We post on a diamond forum sharing our beautiful bling. Talking about have and have nots. I cannot think of a more perfect example of being privileged. I am grateful and thankful for all we have. And I wish everyone who wants to get vaccinated can and be safe and well. That is why I vote the way I do and work towards equality here.

The USA has donated over 500 million Pfizer doses to 90 countries. The largest donation ever by any country. While it is not enough it is a start. We have to do more but the how is the difficult part.

Biden's administration pledged to give $4 billion to COVAX, a global scheme by the World Health Organization to distribute coronavirus vaccines to low- and middle-income countries, more than any other country. We have already donated $2 billion and now are waiting for other countries to fulfill their pledges before distributing the other 2 billion.

Biden has also waived rights to intellectual property for the Covid vaccines so potentially they could be developed by other countries but unfortunately the proposal has been blocked by the European Union, Britain and some other countries.

There is no time to lose. As I wrote in my previous post this is a global pandemic and we won't end it til the world gets vaccinated. We all have a vested interest to vaccinate everyone who wants a vaccine. Not to mention it is the right thing, the ethical thing, to do. No question. But we all (as a world) need to cooperate. Not just the USA but all the "privileged" countries and beyond need to do their part.

Don't you agree @icy_jade? Surely you come from a position of privilege as well and I know you get the importance of everyone working together towards this shared goal. Not just to end the pandemic but to help those who need help everywhere. We are privileged and we need to do more.

Here is a list of the richest countries.
Many of them are very small countries but all of them can contribute in some way to help.
Everyone has to do their part.
There is no time to lose.
I wish I had the power to cut through all the red tape here.
I am grateful that we do have a President who cares and is doing what he can.


Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 5.54.24 AM.png
 

icy_jade

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Yes. The disparities are great. It is sad this is the world we live in and I wish everyone had the same advantages and privileges we do. We post on a diamond forum sharing our beautiful bling. Talking about have and have nots. I cannot think of a more perfect example of being privileged. I am grateful and thankful for all we have. And I wish everyone who wants to get vaccinated can and be safe and well. That is why I vote the way I do and work towards equality here.

The USA has donated over 500 million Pfizer doses to 90 countries. The largest donation ever by any country. While it is not enough it is a start. We have to do more but the how is the difficult part.

Biden's administration pledged to give $4 billion to COVAX, a global scheme by the World Health Organization to distribute coronavirus vaccines to low- and middle-income countries, more than any other country. We have already donated $2 billion and now are waiting for other countries to fulfill their pledges before distributing the other 2 billion.

Biden has also waived rights to intellectual property for the Covid vaccines so potentially they could be developed by other countries but unfortunately the proposal has been blocked by the European Union, Britain and some other countries.

There is no time to lose. As I wrote in my previous post this is a global pandemic and we won't end it til the world gets vaccinated. We all have a vested interest to vaccinate everyone who wants a vaccine. Not to mention it is the right thing, the ethical thing, to do. No question. But we all (as a world) need to cooperate. Not just the USA but all the "privileged" countries and beyond need to do their part.

Don't you agree @icy_jade? Surely you come from a position of privilege as well and I know you get the importance of everyone working together towards this shared goal. Not just to end the pandemic but to help those who need help everywhere. We are privileged and we need to do more.

Here is a list of the richest countries.
Many of them are very small countries but all of them can contribute in some way to help.
Everyone has to do their part.
There is no time to lose.
I wish I had the power to cut through all the red tape here.
I am grateful that we do have a President who cares and is doing what he can.


Screen Shot 2021-07-27 at 5.54.24 AM.png

Singapore has a population of 5 million plus people. So the table is probably true but highly misleading when we talk about actual clout right? If Singapore is able to get vaccines simply because of wealth, I wouldn’t have completed my vaccination only 2 weeks ago, considering that I signed up immediately when it was available to my age group.

In any case I was raising the morality of taking a booster shot, when others don’t get access to even the first shot. Am not even raising the issue about vaccine access being blocked by certain countries etc.
 

missy

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Singapore has a population of 5 million plus people. So the table is probably true but highly misleading when we talk about actual clout right?

In any case I was raising the morality of taking a booster shot, when others don’t get access to even the first shot. Am not even raising the issue about vaccine access being blocked by certain countries etc.

I was asking a hypothetical question. There are no booster vaccinations in the USA currently with no projected date. At this point the US officials don't feel booster shots are necessary. I haven't had time to research and learn all I can about the necessity of booster shots and that is why I asked here. Many PSers are quite knowledgeable about many topics. I love PS as a resource for many different issues. I will not apologize for asking because there is always much to learn. And I will not defend myself to you @icy_jade as you seem intent on twisting things. From my perspective. Peace.
 

icy_jade

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I was asking a hypothetical question. There are no booster vaccinations in the USA currently with no projected date. At this point the US officials don't feel booster shots are necessary. I haven't had time to research and learn all I can about the necessity of booster shots and that is why I asked here. Many PSers are quite knowledgeable about many topics. I love PS as a resource for many different issues. I will not apologize for asking because there is always much to learn. And I will not defend myself to you @icy_jade as you seem intent on twisting things. From my perspective. Peace.

No intent to twist but if you look at pre-pandemic GDP… then I wonder at the point of the earlier table.
0A779CF8-CF14-4A86-B163-D626D2ACD44F.jpeg

In any case yes this is a jewelry forum where seemingly rich ladies discuss about buying and upgrading diamonds and jewelry so most of us definitely come from a position of privilege unless they are in a location where vaccines are still hard to come by.

The moral and ethical implications around booster shots is interesting… I couldn’t find information about US purchases but Fortune reported this about the EU…
“ The EU has secured 6.6 doses for each person through 2023. With the union being on track to vaccinate 70% of its adults by the end of this month, most of that is boosters.”

From:
 

missy

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@icy_jade my point is simply this. The USA is helping and hopefully will continue to do so.

I don’t think any of us could argue the point that we all want an end to this global pandemic. We all need to do our part. If I could give all my jewelry away to end the pandemic for everyone I would. Not a moment’s hesitation. But then again I’d give it all away to get Francesca back too. I’m not materialistic that way. But I digress.

If you look at your chart you could see if everyone did what they could we would be in better shape.

We all have to accept responsibility for ending this pandemic and we all have to do what we can do. There’s power in numbers. Other countries can and should play a role in sharing the responsibility. I’m grateful we have a president now who cares.
 
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