9,500 to 12,500 to spend on a diamond, and overwhelmed.

[rtuttle]

First, I would like to thank PS for being an awesome source of info and to its contributors.

I have been reading non-stop for 3 weeks on diamonds, and the more I read, the less I feel like I know, and what diamond is the right one for me.

Here is what i'm looking for: Round Approximately 1.5 G (F-H), SI1 (VS2), best possible cut and performance. It will be set in a Pavé Diamond Engagement Ring in Platinum (1/2 ct. tw.), width 3.1mm.

I would love a higher quality diamond as far as clairty and color, but don't want to spend money on what I think would only being for reading off stats to other people to brag, Eye clean + performance + 1.5 size, is what matters most.

I have to admit I really love Blue Nile, and James Allen is in my state, so I want to avoid sales tax. Blue Nile is annoying in that they only really provide a certificate of the diamond. Questions I have, will Blue Nile provide Idealscope, ect, and will they ship to an independent appraiser before setting the stone. I'm open to other vendors though I like the size of the company, return policy, years in business, BBB rating of Bluenile, and its name recognition.

Any help would be welcomed. Is this process supposed to be fun? She is my soul mate and I need a diamond to match.

How is this diamond? What should I look for in it?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond.php?d=9931&shape=1&ctMin=1.37&ctMax=1.61&clarity=32&color=8&priceMin=8000&priceMax=13000&resultsColumns=268435471&singleResult=1

 

[starryeyed]

Hi rtuttle!

Welcome to PS and thanks for including us in your diamond search.

That diamond seems to be a good value. GOG has a great reputation. The 59% table is a little large, but if you like that look, no big deal. The stone scored 2.8 on HCA. Stone-Cold will tell you to look at the IS image to truly assess Light Performance. The LGF is 80% which produces a lot of scintillation, from what I understand.

Here is another diamond to compare from WF - 1.506 G SI-1 ES. (I am a happy customer and not affiliated with the company)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2424958.htm

Good luck finding your diamond!!

 

[antelope1]

You can compare BN to other online vendors using HCA (go to the Tools tab on PS an look for HCA), but HCA should only be used as a rejection tool, not a selection tool. Without actual photos of the diamond (let alone the ASETs and DiamXray / Idealscopes), it going to be hard to compare a BN diamond to other diamonds.

One thing you should be aware of is that (IMO, but I'm pretty sure I am right on this) is that BN charges a premium for the same diamonds that other vendors list. If you go to the PS search tool, and input some parameters and click "Search All" -- you'll see the same diamonds listed by various vendors (you can check the certificate numbers to be sure) -- BN almost always has the highest price for a given diamond.

I'm going to let the expert diamond hunters point you to a great RB in your specs, BUT from a consumer perspective, you should order from a merchant that has the following characteristics:
- An unconditional 100% buy-back period (some merchants call this the inspection period).
- A buy back period in general (e.g., BGD has 70% buy back on the original purchase price within 2 years).
- An upgrade policy (100% of the purchase price can be applied to selected diamonds of greater value). IMO, GOG has the best of these policies because the upgraded diamond can be the same price as the one you are trading in, but this policy is only good on some of GOG's diamonds, so look for "lifetime guarantee" on the diamond page. ERD has 100% trade-up if the next diamond is 40% more than the original. JA has 100% trade up if the next is 200% of the original. You get the picture.
- Allow you to put a refundable deposit on multiple diamonds and ship them to an appraiser for inspection (you would probably pay appraisal fees + RT shipping) before purchase.
- Give you idealscope, ASETs, photos, and videos of the actual diamond before purchase.

Of these characteristics, BN won't give you photos, videos, ASETs, etc. BN has a 30 day unconditional return policy. In order to see multiple BN diamonds, you would have to buy multiple diamonds, however -- and BN generally frowns on "comparison purchasing" (see http://www.bluenile.com/product_policies.jsp). I don't know if BN has an "upgrade policy" -- you can call and ask because it's not on their website. BN has no buy back period beyond 30 days.

Just keep these factors in mind when you're looking for a vendor.

Happy hunting!

 

[rtuttle]

Star,

Thank you for replying. I really love GIA certificates, AGS, I don't know how to assess the inclusions?

Thanks

 

[yssie]

BN will not provide an IS nor will they ship to an independent appraiser. However they have a generous return period that would allow you ample time to arrange your own appraisal, if you find a stone you're particularly interested in.

They do not have an upgrade/trade-in policy, so if these last two are important to you another vendor would be a better match.


Re. the GOG diamond I'm not SC but IS/ASET look very nice, ask for a retake of the hearts


ETA: AGS inclusions same as GIA inclusions - both AGS and GIA grade for clarity the same way, and have the same definitions/requirements/specifications of A) what the inclusion types are and B) definitions of clarity grades

 

[antelope1]

The GIA and AGS plots are similar in style -- the image that looks like a cert is actually the sarin report (which does not report inclusions). To see the cert, click on the AGS Certificate link below the images.

If you look at the photo of the diamond, you can see the feather between 6 and 7 o'clock. It's white and perpendicular to the table plane - or that could be the needle.

 

[mrgodai]

that diamond is awesome.

anyways, i just bought a diamond, and same as you, the more i read, the more i struggle.

later i watched some videos from GoG regarding Diamond 4C/brilliance/fire/scintillation... seriously though, it's so hard to tell between a D and a H, a VVS1 and a IS1 at the 5x zoom he uses under different lighting conditions. He even showed a H SI1 that i liked a lot better than a F VS1, both ideal cut. Size and bad cuts on the other hand, can easily be told at a glance.

I kinda regret that i read that much. because now it's really hard to satisfy my "mind clean" mentality.

what I would recommend is to find a vendor (like white flash) that has good return/trade in policy and just pick whatever image/idealscope/aset/report you are happy with or people here say it's good and get the stone itself first. return it if you dont like it, and get another, it'll only cost you $50 to see it in person, which i think should be the final standard.

if you are in a club that compares diamonds all day long, then it's another story.

 

[starryeyed]

Star,

Thank you for replying. I really love GIA certificates, AGS, I don't know how to assess the inclusions?

Thanks

Hi again rtuttle.

Were you able to view the WF AGS report? (If not, just click where it says View AGS certificate - it'll open in a new window.) The inclusion map looks a little busy, but I'm having a hard time finding what's on the map in the magnified image. I see 1 or 2 little feathers or something, but it looks pretty clean to me. Just roll that magnifier over the diamond - what do you see?

If you like the diamond, call WF or use the "Live Chat" to ask if the diamond is "eye-clean". SI-1's are a great value if they are eye-clean. No need to spend money on what you can't see.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto yssie. If the optical symm is good, it will still be a modified hearts and arrows with a deeper cleft in the hearts.

The stone from WF, found by star, looks good too if you are not looking for a H&A. The inclusion plot is the same on AGS or GIA report. Anyway, do not judge the eye-cleanliness of a stone from the report, that only tells you where and what is located where, not how obvious it is. Ask the vendor if a stone is eye-clean, that is the only way.

 

[rtuttle]

Thank you for the help on the whiteflash site. I have been looking at their site the whole time, and thinking the Sarin report was the AGS certificate.

Feathers can be cracks or are cracks, how do you know when a crack is a risk for the diamond? I did see the inclusion plot, and it did see busy to me, though I don't really know if that is a problem or not, eye clean is important. I will ask whiteflash.

The initial return policy matters most to me, as I want to hold on to the ring a lifetime, barring a lost ring. I want to get it looked at before setting it, and also seeing it in person. There will be anniversary rings to make up for future desires of my future wife. That is my opinion anyway.

Thank you

 

[yssie]

Feathers can be cracks or are cracks, how do you know when a crack is a risk for the diamond? I did see the inclusion plot, and it did see busy to me, though I don't really know if that is a problem or not, eye clean is important. I will ask whiteflash.

ditto SC -ask WF, is the only way.

 

[rtuttle]

H&A isn't a requirement. I don't want to pay a premium for a brand, name or something you need a special tool to see. Though, I like what I have read about H&A performance, so near H&A visually for performance that is almost, is perfect.

 

[stone-cold11]

You could probably ask WF for a Hearts image of the stone to see how well it conforms to their standard, they have done that for some customers but have ask the customers not to post the images here on PS.

Several noticeable difference based on the AGS report numbers. The large crown angle. The larger lower half will also result in a cleft hearts which deviates from WF's ACA standard, high chance that is why it is drop from ACA line to ES line.

 

[mrgodai]

watch these videos before you decide on image/numbers alone
http://vimeo.com/5081590
http://vimeo.com/4892106

the whole image/numbers only take it to a performance range which average person can't tell the difference, and within that range the price/size of the diamond can vary a lot. In the end it's down to a mind thing, which it's up to you to decide.

 

[rtuttle]

Any other diamonds out there I can compare? Do I need to change any of my specs?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Rtuttle,

The GOG diamond you chose would be a decent choice if you liked more brightness and a bit less fire and contrast.
The WF diamond would give you a good balance of both but it is a little more expensive.

Both of these are fine diamonds and are Near HA for optical symmetry.

 

[Sizzle]

It sounds like you should do some in person shopping to see what color/clarity etc best appeals to you. Although I have heard good things about Blue Nile, why bother when so many vendors listed on here provide you with all the paperwork you're looking for. Brian Gavin, whiteflash and GOG are all excellent choices.

 

[rtuttle]

It sounds like you should do some in person shopping to see what color/clarity etc best appeals to you.

I believe I have a color that is good pick for my budget and also a clarity, G/SI1, do you have suggestions on others I should look at? I'm willing to reducde color a bit more, if its worth upgrading the cut.

I don't want to pay a super premuim on cut, though, its very important.

Thanks for the reply Sizzle.

 

[mrgodai]

for the 1.5ct range, i think the GoG diamond you found is the best at the moment. (comparing 4c/price/warranty/policy from different sites i liked)

no one mentioned the low end, i did find this diamond just under 9k which i absolutely love.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7636/

if it's eye clean,
brilliance and scintillation is max score on Isee2, which might be more eye pleasing than the 1.5 also the idealscope looks better too.

I would go to a store locally and compare the 0.5mm size different and see if you are comfortable. Also If you use the extra money on a halo setting, it's impossible to tell even if it's side by side.

also reserve the diamonds you want before lurkers takes it. it happened to me when i was shopping.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re. the GOG diamond I'm not SC but IS/ASET look very nice, ask for a retake of the hearts

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7622/

The hearts image is accurate, there is a little assymetry in this diamond in both the pavilion mains and the lower girdle facets that contributes to uneven hearts and near HA images.

Here is the simulated hearts from the sarin data next to the photograph.



I would caution anyone looking at Idealscope, ASET or hearts images and claiming they are tilted images or badly taken without proof.
I beleive one should have evidence confirming that the image is tilted before drawing such a conclusion (ie look at sarin data).

In the absence of such data ignoring the assymetry in the image may be the wrong interpretation and it just wastes the vendors time and confuses and or makes the consumer mistrust the vendor.

Slight assymetry is common in even fine make round brilliants. We have four niche vendors here with very high symmetry selection standards but that doesn't mean we should expect all diamonds to have near perfect optical symmetry, especially since it is only a small contributor to overal general aesthetics.

 

[starryeyed]

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/117/ - You'd have to ask if the inclusions can be covered by a prong?
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218716.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131 - maybe eye-clean? maybe?
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7539/ - How do you feel about H?

This is by far my fave:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2424958.htm

 

[rtuttle]

Starry thank you for all the links. It was exactly what I was looking for. I'm open to H and also, a smaller stone, if it is just an awesome stone for the price. 1.30 is the smallest. I looked at 1.30 originally, and 1.35 came to be the size I wanted. I later, wanted to get a size, that would be good for a lifetime, and came up 20 points. But, still willing to look at that size.

What's the verdict on feathers, and how worried you should be?

Also, the whiteflash diamond, looks awesome, but doesn't have the same info on it, as good old gold does. Does that matter?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[starryeyed]

Starry thank you for all the links. It was exactly what I was looking for. I'm open to H and also, a smaller stone, if it is just an awesome stone for the price. 1.30 is the smallest. I looked at 1.30 originally, and 1.35 came to be the size I wanted. I later, wanted to get a size, that would be good for a lifetime, and came up 20 points. But, still willing to look at that size.

What's the verdict on feathers, and how worried you should be?

Also, the whiteflash diamond, looks awesome, but doesn't have the same info on it, as good old gold does. Does that matter?

Thanks,
Rich

Hi Rich.

Here is an article that may be helpful regarding feathers:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk

I had a similar concern when looking for new studs for Mom. I came to the conclusion that a feather, even if on the edge, wasn't a big deal.

What kind of info are you looking for on that WF diamond?

 

[rtuttle]

Can someone explain this to me?

This particular diamond is eye clean from 8-10 inches, 10 inches from the side, and 6 inches.


Thanks

 

[athenaworth]

If you go lower in color and add fluoresence, then you shouldn't be able to see the color and you can go up in size. Just throwing more confusion into the mix.

 

[starryeyed]

Can someone explain this to me?

This particular diamond is eye clean from 8-10 inches, 10 inches from the side, and 6 inches.

Thanks

My guess is if you are CLOSER than 8-10 inches away from the diamond face-up, you may see the inclusions. If you are viewing from the side, any closer than 10 inches and you may see the inclusions. Not sure what the 6" refers to. That's my guess. Ask the person you quoted?

 

[mrgodai]

6 inch one is probably for the bottom judging by the inclusion location

when asking for eye clean, most vendors would do it from 10inch distance.

But i end up asking for less than 5 inches (near sighted people can see this close without glasses, like me . usually they just tell me they can't see that close and tell me the results from 6 inches.) and indoor/outdoor/direct lighting conditions and by 2 people.

It must be from really close and in different light conditions and by 2 people to ensure it's eye clean for me

same stone from JA, first time i just asked for eye clean, they say yes. 2nd time with a different person, i asked to check closer, she says clean as well, but when i asked the indoor/outdoor/direct light, she told me it's slightly visible up close under outdoor light.

also depends on the setting, you might or might not care the sides and bottom.

 

[gMystikal]

It sounds like you should do some in person shopping to see what color/clarity etc best appeals to you. Although I have heard good things about Blue Nile, why bother when so many vendors listed on here provide you with all the paperwork you're looking for. Brian Gavin, whiteflash and GOG are all excellent choices.

I agree you def need to do a little shopping in person. I had the dilemma of choosing F or G and seeing them in person really made a huge difference. Check out a few places and then come back the PS search engine to buy your diamond. Use HCA tool to reject any diamonds with poor proportions and then make sure you the vendor says its eyeclean and that you have 30 days to return it. I would also ask them to inspect the ideal-scope.

 

[rtuttle]

What distances and what views do I want to check for eye clean? I'm going to have them pull the stone for a second look.

Any other questions on the following diamond I should ask?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2424958.htm

I did see the hearts, and it look good from what I'm able to judge, though, two of the hearts are of different size than the rest, would be the reason it's not a H&A diamond.

Thanks

 

[starryeyed]

What distances and what views do I want to check for eye clean? I'm going to have them pull the stone for a second look.

Any other questions on the following diamond I should ask?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2424958.htm

I did see the hearts, and it look good from what I'm able to judge, though, two of the hearts are of different size than the rest, would be the reason it's not a H&A diamond.

Thanks

Think about the distances you would view a diamond ring ordinarily. Even if you were to study the ring up close, how close would you put it to your face? I think 8-10" is a good distance to consider.

However, I would ask if there is ANY distance where inclusions are visible. Then you know for sure.

Ask what they think of the light performance. Does the diamond tend toward broad flashes of white light, sparkly flashes of color, or a combination of both? Does it perform well in most lighting conditions?

Can you think of anything else?