shape
carat
color
clarity

6ct Old Euro Diamond

gerryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
9
Hello everyone!

I'm writing here after a suggestion from a reddit user (Sailor__Lula, thanks!)!

I have a 6ct Old European cut diamond that I had unmounted just today
We found out it has a chip on one side, and the jeweler who unmounted it also gave me an approximate of what he thought the diamond to be: he said "I" range, VS1 (if I remember right), about 20k Euros

He suggested to have it recut to gain the most out of it, assuring me that cutting it into the brilliant shape wouldn't affect too much the carats but would amp up the price

Various reddit users pointed out how it wasn't an "I",but I don't know if that was just for the poor lighting or if the diamond really is lower in color (I tried to take some pictures under sunlight instead of warm house light to gain a more genuine color, still, I think the camera makes it a little bit more yellow than it actually is)

I know barely nothing about diamonds, I am here to listen all the suggestions you have to offer!

What would be an estimate for this kind of gem? Was he low balling me?

Thanks!

WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.25.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.26.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.27-2.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.27.jpeg
 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,301
That estimate is very, very, very low for a 6ct well-cut old European, which is what this is. Your pictures are not the kind of lighting that will allow us to make any kind of assessment about color. Singlestone, David Klass, or Yoram at Gem Concepts might be able to help with rehab to the stone. I don’t know cutters in the UK. It is and will be a stunning stone!
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,260
Hi, welcome.

20k euros is much too low. Even if the stone is warm, even o-p, it would be worth more than that by far.

Do you like your stone? OECs in that size are hard to find and much rarer than a modern round! Unless you do not like your stone, I would not recut it into a modern round brilliant. Even if you don't like it, I would sell it and then buy something you do like.

Do you want to sell your stone or polish out the chip- or both?

Being based in Europe, I think you have a better market in the US. I would encourage you to reach out to Old World Diamonds in NYC or Jewels by Grace in LA, to start. They can offer consignment advice or may offer an outright purchase.

They would need to see your stone first though. Please don't sell it for $20k euros without doing further work! It's worth more than that.

I am not sure if the goal is to sell the stone or polish the chip and keep it. Adam at Old World is someone I would trust with rehabbing the chip as well and he'll have recommendations.
 

gerryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
9
That estimate is very, very, very low for a 6ct well-cut old European, which is what this is. Your pictures are not the kind of lighting that will allow us to make any kind of assessment about color. Singlestone, David Klass, or Yoram at Gem Concepts might be able to help with rehab to the stone. I don’t know cutters in the UK. It is and will be a stunning stone!

Thank you for the reply!

Sorry for the picture quality but today I'm out of luck with good lighting...
If I can do something to enhance the real color of the stone please suggest me what to do and I'll do it!
 

gerryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
9
Hi, welcome.

20k euros is much too low. Even if the stone is warm, even o-p, it would be worth more than that by far.

Do you like your stone? OECs in that size are hard to find and much rarer than a modern round! Unless you do not like your stone, I would not recut it into a modern round brilliant. Even if you don't like it, I would sell it and then buy something you do like.

Do you want to sell your stone or polish out the chip- or both?

Being based in Europe, I think you have a better market in the US. I would encourage you to reach out to Old World Diamonds in NYC or Jewels by Grace in LA, to start. They can offer consignment advice or may offer an outright purchase.

They would need to see your stone first though. Please don't sell it for $20k euros without doing further work! It's worth more than that.

Thank you for the reply!

I do like the stone, it is one piece out of two that used to be earrings, but were made into two identical rings (they belonged to my great great great grandmother I believe!)

I would actually like to sell it since it's something that holds so much value but everyone is so scared to have... if it makes sense
The last time it was actually used as a ring was at my mother's wedding

As for sending it abroad, I think the problem is not knowing the value of the diamond itself, since I would most likely have to insure it for shipping, and I have never done anything like that before...
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,890
Hello everyone!

I'm writing here after a suggestion from a reddit user (Sailor__Lula, thanks!)!

I have a 6ct Old European cut diamond that I had unmounted just today
We found out it has a chip on one side, and the jeweler who unmounted it also gave me an approximate of what he thought the diamond to be: he said "I" range, VS1 (if I remember right), about 20k Euros

He suggested to have it recut to gain the most out of it, assuring me that cutting it into the brilliant shape wouldn't affect too much the carats but would amp up the price

Various reddit users pointed out how it wasn't an "I",but I don't know if that was just for the poor lighting or if the diamond really is lower in color (I tried to take some pictures under sunlight instead of warm house light to gain a more genuine color, still, I think the camera makes it a little bit more yellow than it actually is)

I know barely nothing about diamonds, I am here to listen all the suggestions you have to offer!

What would be an estimate for this kind of gem? Was he low balling me?

Thanks!

WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.25.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.26.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.27-2.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2021-06-23 at 18.43.27.jpeg

Do notttttt recut it into a round brilliant! I assure you that tons of people love old europeans - they're very trendy right now. Recutting was maybe the right option 20 years ago, but today a lot of people are after true antique diamonds. $20k definitely sounds like an insanely lowball estimate for a 6 ct I VS2.

Here is one with lower color and smaller carat size for $89k: https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/colle...cts/5-85ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-k-vs2

OWD has this 5.79 L VS2 for $78k: https://oldworlddiamonds.com/diamon...WEIGHT&shape=EU&item=diamond&referer=diamonds
 
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elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,260
Thank you for the reply!

I do like the stone, it is one piece out of two that used to be earrings, but were made into two identical rings (they belonged to my great great great grandmother I believe!)

I would actually like to sell it since it's something that holds so much value but everyone is so scared to have... if it makes sense
The last time it was actually used as a ring was at my mother's wedding

As for sending it abroad, I think the problem is not knowing the value of the diamond itself, since I would most likely have to insure it for shipping, and I have never done anything like that before...

I would talk to both vendors. They will have shipping insurance and they can talk you through that process. You will need to make sure that it is appropriately valued, but they can provide more information on that. If you're interested in selling it, I would encourage you to reach out to both Grace and Adam, and see what they have to say.

I am quite certain that they could provide you with a shipping label that would have full insurance and they would be able to give you a better range of the value, even assuming that the color was warmer than I.

They could also arrange for the stone to be certified by GIA once it's in the states, which it will need, if you are keen to sell it.
 

Cerulean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
3,041
Good to see you here! :)

It’s me!

I would talk to the vendors for sure. I didn’t realize you were in the UK but they will have insurance and will be able to help you for sure. Adam at Old World Diamonds is very nice and I suggest you call them over email

Grace from Jewels by Grace responds to email

I would not work with that jeweler you’ve been talking to anymore. He is not working in your best interest and it’s evident. Please do not let him destroy this diamond and recut it to a modern brilliant - it is exceptionally rare to find one this size and it is a piece of history

You should share the photos from the jeweler you posted to Reddit! They are helpful to see the chip and the color (or I can for you)
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,890
I agree it may be easier to sell in the US, solely because Americans are after size much more so than Europeans. There's simply a larger market for big diamonds.
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,260
I missed the part about round brilliant! DO NOT do that!!!

Try a white background, overcast lighting to capture color.

Plus a billion.

The stone has value because it is unique as far as the size goes and it is nicely cut. Someone can deal with the chip if you want to sell it and they may just polish it out. It's going to depend on what it is and the size of it, and other details.

Modern round brilliant stones are very easily found and while larger stones in modern rounds are not as plentiful, it is bad advice to recut this into a modern round brilliant. There is a market for large old cut stones like this. The jeweler that you took it to was uninformed and was really giving you advice that would have been good for 20 or 30 years ago, when nobody really wanted those stones. Now people really do want the stones and they are quite popular.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,890
I would not work with that jeweler you’ve been talking to anymore. He is not working in your best interest and it’s evident.

I don't know that it's that so much as it is that the jeweler hasn't kept up with the times and isn't aware of what the current trends are. His advice sounds to me old-fashioned.
 

Cerulean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
3,041
I don't know that it's that so much as it is that the jeweler hasn't kept up with the times and isn't aware of what the current trends are. His advice sounds to me old-fashioned.

There was a bit more detail in the original Reddit thread - I could absolutely be wrong for sure and admit I don’t have the full story but either way I’d avoid him

He estimated a 6 carat I color to be 20k which is appalling
 

gerryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
9
Good to see you here! :)

It’s me!

I would talk to the vendors for sure. I didn’t realize you were in the UK but they will have insurance and will be able to help you for sure. Adam at Old World Diamonds is very nice and I suggest you call them over email

Grace from Jewels by Grace responds to email

I would not work with that jeweler you’ve been talking to anymore. He is not working in your best interest and it’s evident. Please do not let him destroy this diamond and recut it to a modern brilliant - it is exceptionally rare to find one this size and it is a piece of history

You should share the photos from the jeweler you posted to Reddit! They are helpful to see the chip and the color (or I can for you)

Hello!!

Thank you again for your kind suggestions :)

And yes, I don't think I will talk again with that jeweler, that's for sure

If you want to share the reddit pictures please do so!
(also, those were also shot by me but just under a bad light!)
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,260
I would think that the chip would be something that could be polished out. You would not want to have it graded until that's done.

Definitely reach out to both Adam and Grace, if you're interested in selling it via consignment or seeking an outright offer. I believe that both will offer that option and consignment may ultimately net you a larger price but take longer.

I would say that the stone appears to me to be definitely warmer than an I. Very difficult to assess based upon the photographs, but my range would be o-p (I think it may be warmer than this but some photos are lighter) or q-r, if I had to hazard a guess. It could be s-t as well, if it looks as warm as it does in some of the photos in person. However, you really cannot accurately assess color with pictures like that on the internet! I do think it is much warmer than an I though. I would not let the warmth dissuade you, there are lots of buyers that purchase stones that are warm. I am one of them.
 
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Austina

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
5,816
Just as an example, these people in London (I’ve visited them), have several old cuts, and although I think their prices are on the high side, it’ll give you an idea that 20,000 is ridiculously low.

 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,301
I see it has a lower crown than I imagined, but it is still a very beautiful stone. I would guess it to be pretty warm (low in the alphabet). A nice bit of rehab and a bezel setting would make this into a real showstopper. The question is whether you want to do all of that just to sell it, or find an honest dealer who would want to pay you fairly and take all of that on.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
1,724
Oooh la la, a 6ct OEC!! I’m so glad you aren’t going with the jeweler who was lowballing you - 20k for that stone is ludicrous. Seriously I want to call him and be like “I’ll take a 6ct well cut OEC for 20k, thanks!”

great points have been made on this thread so I’ll just add a giant +1 to all of it!

side note: there were TWO of these honkers??? :kiss2: :kiss2: :kiss2:
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
14,097
It's definitely not an I color (in my opinion based on pics). Looks to me like an M-P color. But regardless, 20k is an insanely low offer. Please don't take that! The stone looks beautifully cut, which is the hardest part about OECs. Also don't recut it! +1 to the recommendations you already got to reach out to Adam and Grace.
 

JPie

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
3,887
If your jeweler thinks that’s an I color, it should be recut into a modern round brilliant, and the value is only $20K, I wouldn't even trust the guy to clean my rings.

I’ll leave it at that since you’ve already gotten excellent advice on next steps.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,793
I absolutely agree that the jeweler was trying to take advantage of you. It's extremely puzzling that he estimated it at I color!!!

I also think the stone is M-P or lower in color which will make the value lower than if it were higher color, obviously. But especially since it is low in color, it will be much more desirable as an Old European Cut.

Of the vendors mentioned, I'd contact Adam at Old World Diamonds since they are antique diamond dealers. You won't get retail value selling it to a dealer, but you'll get more than that jeweler offered! Dealers like OWD have to rehab stones like this often. But he will keep it as an OEC. I hope you might reconsider selling it since it has been in your family so long. It will likely end up smaller since that chip is quite significant. You could set it in a pendant if you felt it is too large for a ring.
 

Cerulean

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
3,041
Oooh la la, a 6ct OEC!! I’m so glad you aren’t going with the jeweler who was lowballing you - 20k for that stone is ludicrous. Seriously I want to call him and be like “I’ll take a 6ct well cut OEC for 20k, thanks!”

great points have been made on this thread so I’ll just add a giant +1 to all of it!

side note: there were TWO of these honkers??? :kiss2: :kiss2: :kiss2:

I know - seeing them together would be something!
 

Lookinagain

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,877
you should definitely have this graded by a reputable lab be it in the UK or the US. It will cost you some for the polish and grading but both with help you realize a fair price for the stone. Please do NOT have it cut into a modern round brilliant stone. If you were keeping it and that's what you wanted, that's one thing, but you want to sell it and with the warmth of the color, I think more old cut lovers would appreciate the color more than folks looking for a modern cut. And regardless, it would be a shame to cut that stone into a modern one. Old cut stones of this size are not easy to find.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
1,017
I agree with previous posters, I think its more like a P or lower color. It’s a very nice cut. I would never recut the chip out of it. I would see if the surface can be cleaned without formally polishing, and then I’d wear it and keep it in the family. You should try the most conservative options first. Repolishing can change character. Recutting does. When people say you can re-cut the diamond to take away the chip, they are not telling you that there will be a reduction in the diameter, and a total new look to the faceting, period. You might like the new look or you might not. The repolished stone will be shiny and glittery and cleaned up, but again you might or might not like the facet patten or diameter as much as the old. The old will be gone. I would trust Adam at OWD’s cutter to do a recut, but not others with this stone because of the rarity of carat size. To retain value, you don’t want to lose any carat weight that takes this stone below 6 carats. Obviously a professional can advise you on this, but value is lost when you go below certain benchmark carat sizes. Personally, I would not touch the chip, I would not send to Adam, and I’d wear it. I’d set it in a setting that hides the chip, period. If you are interested in your options, maybe it makes sense to bring it in person to a reputable jeweler of antique stones in UK, in person, just to get educated opinions? You are likely to find more buyers in the US market and if you do in the end want to sell it here, I would discuss that option in a separate post. Don’t go back to that jeweler.
 
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