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5 Stone Anniversary Band into an Eternity

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Big Fat Facets, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 18, 2019
    (Grab a snack and a drink its a bit lengthy...)

    Hi All!

    I have a 5 stone round brilliant anniversary band. Each stone is about .22 or so points totaling a 1.10 carats.

    Its was an anniversary present from my husband. Its be Gemlok. They are known for their patented bar settings.

    I understand the company also goes by the name Gemveto and Jean Vitau. I was told that back in the 80’s, 90’s possibly early 2000’s, Gemlok used to be a vendor for Tiffany & Co, producing all of their bar set diamond/gemstone wedding, anniversary, partial eternity, full eternity bands for them. They are known for their

    use of very highest quality cut stones as well as their patented bar setting to the point that Tiffany and co partnered with them to produce those type of pieces as Tiffany & co recognized that they could not do better, in house.

    I came upon this information by way of a WONDERFUL LOVELY sales professional at tiffany & co. She whispered it to me and wished me luck as i loved the setting but wanted colorless cvs stones instead of the F/G vs stones that were standard. And by wanting something more she knew tiffany would be prohibitively expensive on top of the usual mark up. So i think from a fellow jewelry lover to another, she really helped a girl out!!

    I am interested in expanding my 5 stone gemok diamond band into a 9-10 stone which would render it a 3 quarter eternity eternity band (eterntiy with sizing bar) for a 5 full to 5.25 size ring.

    Ive spoken to a Gemlok rep and was told they’d be happy to help me with that.

    The issue is that I’m not sure i want to stay with gemlok as I’m guessing that a very low set bezel setting/mounting might provide more comfort. Yes, i am sentimental about the ring but as long as i can utilize the diamonds i think i will be fine even if the setting changed to a bezel.

    If i am going to select several more modern round brilliants then I’m interested in getting super ideal cut.

    Ive spoken to a rep for cbi/hpd and was told that ,
    “I don’t think we can use hp lux melee. It wouldn’t be a good match for your diamonds as they are true hearts and arrows BUT our premium melee should be a good match for tiffany quality”

    The assumption was made without having looked at my band of diamonds that the lesser quality cut stones would be good enough. And that surely, my diamonds wouldn’t be good enough for hp lux melee. Im happy to put my 5 inferior crappy tiffany quality diamonds on the inside of the ring so that nobody sees them. :(2 God forbid.

    To that my response is EEWWWWW, yuck! Reminds me of that one thread where a Brian Gavin representative directly puts down and trashes a potential trade up client with a Whitefish ACA diamond.
    in my case it was indirect. BUT its the same type energy!

    Now onto whiteflash, the representative i spoke with just flat out stated that they do not work with outside diamonds even if i wish to purchase several of their aca diamonds and incorporate the diamonds i have to make this eternity happen. No Exceptions. I say Fair enough! no need to put down other (people’s) diamonds.

    of course whomever i purchase the diamonds from i’d also have set/mount if they are set up for that.

    Otherwise, I’m happy to buy my diamond and provide them for a great fabricator...

    Im open to the idea of other cuts so that the ring is a mixed cut eternity. Like incorporating pear cut or emerald cut, as an example, to make this eternity happen. That would be another thread, though…

    Does anyone have any ideas or names of vendors that might be interested in doing this type of work???

    Are eternity bands hand fabricated/hand forged?? OR are they mostly cast??

    THANKS SO MUCH!
     
    


    


  2. D&T
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by D&T » Jul 18, 2019
    hmm, I've done a lot of resets of bands and have great success with David Klass he just recently reset my 11 diamonds albeit around 9 pointers, certainly he could help provide other rbs diamonds into the mix. Be aware that his is mostly cast, I've not asked him about hand forge as that was not important to me. You can try and ask Victor Canera? I had him make a band many years ago, and he does hand forge. I'm only recommending jewelers I've worked with, I've worked with other jewelers but I've narrowed down my go to jeweler and he just so happens to be at the top since he just made some rings for me.

    ETA how about a cushion and rb... there was a phenomenal band a few years ago and I can't remember who had them, but it was a bezel cushion/rb eternity band
     
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  3. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 18, 2019
    =)2Thanks so much D&T!!
    i'd love to see the band with the cushions and round brilliants. If you happen to have it...Otherwise no worries. I REALLY appreciate the recommendation of david klass and possibly victor canera.
     
  4. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Jul 19, 2019
    I don't want to rain on your parade, but I feel like you should keep the current ring intact and if you want something more of an eternity then create a new, separate ring. I just feel like trying to recreate the one you have is only going to bring you disappointment. Both in the respect that someone else may not be able to "get it right" as to this specific setting style, as well as trying to get stones that face up well-matched to what you already have. Also, that specific style of mounting may be a bit more "proprietary" and I don't know if another craftsperson will want to trespass there. I just think there are things that are suitable for "repurposing" and some things for which their integrity should be preserved.
     
    


    


  5. D&T
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by D&T » Jul 19, 2019
    Found it!
    not bar set... but bezel, to showcase possibly your size of rbs, and cushions... this band has AVRs and AVCs but at least gives you a shape frame of reference:
    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-avr-bezel-eternity-band-by-bgd.166257/

    upload_2019-7-18_22-53-24.png

    since you indicated you might go bezel if you cannot get the barset setting...

    I LOVE the tiffany barset, you can find similar designs through casting companies like adwar and uniquesettings and many jewelers can order in, but to @headlight's point, I actually try to create a "barset" like ring after trying one on somewhere else, and while I loved it where I tried it on, I tried to go custom for a similar design, and I did not like it, different feel, even though the diamonds were ideal. In hindsight I should have just bought the band (knowing now that band would have fit my finger perfect) it was an already made ring that was stocked at the shop and was just a smidge too large, now many years later my finger is actually the size that band would have fit me now, I still remember it well:cry2: I digress....
    back to the point, I don't think matching up melees is too difficult but if you want ideal melees, next to yours might be a little different, might not if you mixed it all up. I had a beautiful wide band with all sorts of OECs different facets and 4 color ranges with I think I even through a few rbs in the mix, and that band looked cohesive. Its now rehomed as it was "too" much band for me and the new owner loved it. so its doable... just how you want it to look?
     
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  6. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 19, 2019
    Hi Headlight! my responses below...

    Forgive me, I must have written my original post in such haste that it is unclear. Please let me clarify...
    The Gemlok bar setting is patented. I have a 5 stone version of it. If i were to remain with this bar setting and expand it to 3 quarter eternity. I would absolutely have Gemlok do it. Not only have i already contacted them and they are happy to help me with it. I would NOT have a fabricator to try and replicate it.
    The only reason im in a bit of dilemma is that...
    I am seriously contemplating redoing the five stone gemlok ring into a
    BEZEL eternity.
    So in essence, it is a brand new ring.
    That is why i am looking for additional stones as well as a fabricator.
    Hope this lends more clarity!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  7. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 19, 2019
    Wow!! this mixed cut eternity ring sounds nothing short of fabulous!
    If i stick with an all modern round brilliant eterntity then i can always put my mediocre tiffany quality stones towards the sizing bar on the underside of a sizeable eternity and the top upper portion can be super ideal/premium cut stones.
    But im loving the idea of a mixed cut eternity band more and more...it would be such a fun look...?!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  8. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Jul 19, 2019
    Oooohhhh... well that makes sense!!!
    I do love the bezel idea for an eternity style... just think how comfy that will be to wear... you’ll never want to take it off!
    And I’m loving the idea of purposely mixing cuts!
    This is an exciting project!
     
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  9. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 23, 2019
    Thank you, Headlight! I've noticed some diamond girdles are smooth as can be and don't bother me but
    the girdles of my gemlok band could certainly be more comfy and i think bezeling might just be it. But truth be told i just love how a nice bar setting looks. Just love the scalloped sillouette. Lots to think about.
    thanks again for weighing in!! so appreciate it!
     
  10. rocks
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by rocks » Jul 23, 2019
    I don't think the other sellers intent was to trash your ring. The issue (I think) is that cutting has evolved, and with the help of computer analysis, cutters are able to optimize light return. When you purchased your ring, it was likely among the best available....but technology has changed everything. Though your stones are lovely, they may not "match" current super ideal cut diamonds. Make sense?
     
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  11. hypermom
    Shiny_Rock

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    by hypermom » Jul 23, 2019
    I agree with @rocks. I'd personally be hesitant to mix diamonds in rings purchased a good time ago with current melee. I'd be bothered by the difference personally.
    I would also leave this ring as is and purchase another designed or chosen from scratch. In a remake it just seems risky to me that you may not be satisfied with the result.
    Just my opinion, OP, it may not be what you decide to do.
    Best of luck in your journey!
     
  12. motownmama
    Ideal_Rock

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    by motownmama » Jul 23, 2019
    I am NOT the most knowledgable; however, I had my 7 stone for over 15 years and took it to my jeweler to get remade into full eternity. He did say the challenge would be matching the stones. I’m pretty picky about details, but I’ve looped my ring and can’t tell which were the 7 original stones. Maybe bc they’re smaller than your stones? Sry if I’ve added nothing to the discussion, but that was just my experience.
     
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  13. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 23, 2019
    hi Rocks! Yes, my ring was from my husband in 1997...feels like just yesterday. i recall the buzz, at the time, was how gemlok used ideal precision cut stones...don't quite recall hearing the words "super ideal" or "beyond super ideal" back in the day...
    And yes, you make so much sense about technology. after all the modern round brilliant seems the most studied, scrutinized and regulated cut/make of diamond.
    Thank you so so much for weighing in, for helping me make sense of this. Extremely appreciative of you!=)2
     
  14. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 23, 2019
    Hi Hypermom! Thanks for chiming in! Well, those are very good points to consider. I value your opinion. Thank you!=)2
     
  15. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 23, 2019
    Hi Motownmama! Thank you so very much for sharing your experience! You've added tremendously to this discussion. And it is immensely helpful, in my (jewelry) quandary. im so appreciative that you took the time to chime in, thinking you wouldn't be helpful. What a good heart!!!=)2
     
    


    


  16. hypermom
    Shiny_Rock

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    by hypermom » Jul 23, 2019
    At the end of the day it is your opinion that is most important! Just wanted to give you something to think about. Best of luck! Jewelry buying should be fun not stressful.
     
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  17. rocks
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by rocks » Jul 23, 2019
    My pleasure!
     
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  18. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 23, 2019
    thanks hypermom!
    Yes, usually jewelry buying is so fun BUT this one (5 stone to eternity) hasn't been as much...
    Thank you! I find your comments so supportive and reassuring. Yes, you are right. i've got to go with
    my gut (opinion)!!
     
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  19. John Pollard
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by John Pollard » Jul 23, 2019
    Hi @Big Fat Facets. I wanted to let you know the fault here was mine. I’m the diamond trainer for all of our retailers, including HPD.

    @rocks , @hypermom and @motownmama gave you correct information. But my messaging with your diamond pro at HPD could have been more clear. I wanted to add to those posters' comments above with some historical context from the world of diamond cutting. I hope it’s interesting reading.

    History -

    Tiffany was the pioneer of cut-quality. They were first on the map. They sourced round brilliants from Henry Morse, the first cutter of known ‘ideal’ angles in the late 1880s and were supplied though the mid 1990s by Lazare Kaplan (Tolkowsky’s cousin). They made cut-quality a priority before anyone else. It’s one of the reasons the blue box earned its stellar reputation. They #nailedit

    100 years later (in 1980) diamond cutters in Japan evolved tools and techniques to produce what they nicknamed Hearts & Arrows (H&A) patterns in round brilliants. H&A started coming to the USA in the 1990s but they were quickly dismissed as a gimmick. Why? Because the goal wasn’t light return, it was creating patterns to “ooh and ahh” people in little viewers. Outside the viewers many were not great performers. They had leakage, obstruction, etc. Very inconsistent and unpredictable.

    To iconic high street stores like Tiffany (and others) the H&A movement was a non-starter. A blip on the radar. They had no interest in gimmicks.

    Fast forward to 2000. Knowledge and cutting evolved. Certain H&A producers started using near-ideal proportions for good performance as well as patterns. By the turn of the century the company Hearts On Fire was supplying a network of reputable jewelers. They improved the reputation of H&A and paved the way for other “super-ideal” makes. Then some weirdo in Australia ;-) introduced the ideal-scope, enabling quick light-return analysis, useful online, furthering reflector acceptance and paving the way for ASET to be quickly adopted in spaces like PS.

    That brings us to today... Many professionals consider H&A its own make. A subset of round. And when matching melee, in addition to color/clarity, make is considered as well.

    Thus the training I have provided to our retailers:
    1. If the main piece is H&A… Specific H&A melee will give a consistent look and is “mind-clean.” If someone wants to run an ideal-scope or H&A viewer down the band they can see matching arrows uniformly oriented throughout the piece. Is that everyone’s choice? No, but it’s pretty cool and it's popular with many clients.
    2. If the main piece is not specifically H&A… Premium non H&A melee will match what’s there better, especially when replacing a few stones or creating a band for an existing piece. It’s reliably a more uniform flavor. And it avoids higher cost of specific H&A melee.
    Specific to Tiffany: Their pieces are iconic. Absolutely beautiful. Great melee sourcing. However they have never acknowledged H&A. Not in their center diamonds, nor their melee. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible to find arrows in their melee... I see them in more recent pieces but it's not intentionally uniform. So, for me, the high street stores fall into the second category above in terms of melee-matching strategy.

    And that’s no problem. Either flavor is perfectly awesome in melee sizes, as long as you have consistent cutting and great proportions.

    If I had trained your sales pro better that could have been made more clear in those emailed communications. (that’s on me, not her…again I apologize).

    I hope the historical overview is interesting. Either way, thank you for sharing the comments here. It's very helpful to have this context, and we will improve in our messaging.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  20. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 23, 2019
    If this is a standalone band and not to wear with your engagement ring, perhaps consider making a new 5 stone with larger H&A diamonds? That would give you more finger coverage and likely be more comfortable than a band that goes 3/4 around. A few people have made one with .40 stones for a total of 2ctw. @MissGotRocks is one of them.
     
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  21. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 24, 2019
    Hi John!
    I can't thank you enough for taking the time to provide such a thorough explanation and history lesson in cut round brilliant diamonds!! i'm sure many of us read with great fascination and curiosity. I really really appreciate it!! Thank you for acknowledging and apologizing.
     
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  22. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 24, 2019
    Hi diamondseeker!
    well, i'd like the piece to be versatile. I'd like to be able to wear it both as a stand alone as well as a stacker for my engagement ring, depending upon my mood and look im going for...
    id love to see how a 5 stone 40 pointer anniversary band will look and feel on the hand. Seems really big to me, though.
    Hopefully, in the next week or so i can determine if a 3 quarter/half eternity is comfortable enough to move forward on.
    Currently, my 5 stone ring is sized between 3.75-4 (i measured on a mandrel) my guess of size 4 was close but not quite. In the last couple weeks, i've been wearing it on my size 3 pinky after a decade of not wearing due to thicker ring finger. I put it away and sort of forgot about it. Until i started diamond shopping.
    But regardless of partial eternity or leaving as is, im going to have to make a decision to size it up to 5 or size it down to 3.
    The Gemlok representative has been stellar and would love to build me a new ring OR just size it for me so that i can wear it and enjoy it. I might still have the bill of sale from 22 years ago.
    Anyhow, sorry for rambling. Sometimes these posts really help me sort out the jumble that is in my head. Good jumble but jumble nonetheless.
    Thanks for your idea of the super sized 40 pointer anniversary band!!!
     
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  23. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 24, 2019
    Here's MissGotRock's band (can't remember ring size but maybe 5-6). You might be able to do 40 pointers at size 5, but 30 pointers might work better. She wears it as a right hand ring. I wear my 5 stone band as a substitute when I don't want to wear a larger diamond engagement ring. Most here will tell you that there are dangers in wearing even a band the size you now have with an engagement ring, and especially the emerald cut you have now. Larger stones in the band sit up higher than small ones, and the band is likely to rub against the prongs of the e-ring and wear them down (either the girdles of the diamonds or the metal if bezeled). Most people around here use maybe 10 pointers or smaller for eternities to wear with an e-ring (so the band complements rather than compete with the e-ring diamond), and larger diamond bands as stand alone rings. But that's all individual preference, of course!

    2ctwMemoireMissGotRocks.JPG
     
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  24. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 24, 2019
    Hi Diamondseeker!
    OH MY WORD! that is HUGE! im not quite going for a look like that. Although, she can carry it! i don't think i can. I think you are totally right 30 pointers might work, for me, as a stand alone. But .22 seems like a good stand alone, too. I'll try to post some pictures of my 5 stone band for you later this evening.
    wow, 10 pointers seem REALLY small. Gosh, i suppose this just means more jewelry shopping. Though this time for appropriate bands to wear with my emerald cut. I'd better rummage through my drawers first, just incase i've forgotten about something, before i go spending some more...
     
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  25. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 24, 2019
    My 5 stone band is actually 1 ctw! So I agree that your .22 each band is fine as stand alone! I don't have the energy to look now because it is late, but I remember that grateful4life had a 10 pointer eternity made to wear with her 5 ct ACA, and many people here have pave rings such as those Victor makes as their wedding band. I think it will really help to try on different styles, and I highly recommend Tiffany if you have one nearby as they have so many classic bands and they are generally set low (even if you choose to buy the style you like elsewhere). I mostly wear the 2.2mm Tiffany Legacy wedding band.
     
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  26. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » Jul 24, 2019
    Here is my 30 pointer 5 stone on a 4.75 finger next to a 3 carat ering.

    I think that you can go online and select 30 pointers (or whatever point you want) that fall into the PS parameters from BlueNile (or other vendor) and have a local jeweler create it for you. As long as the jeweler makes eternity rings in a style you like it should not be that hard.

    5736B1F2-92E8-448F-97A1-6DF294F8D742.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  27. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 25, 2019
    Hi diamondseeker!
    Overhead ceiling LED lighting
    Band on my right pinky
    IMG_1198.JPG

    band with the emerald cut (can't get the band any further so moved the solitaire up to give a sense of what it would look like together)
    IMG_1195.JPG

    IMG_1194.JPG

    IMG_1193.JPG


    IMG_1192.JPG
    quite challenging to really capture the beauty.
    diamondseeker do you think it overpowers?? I don't find it overpowering to my eyes. But your eyes are more experienced and more trained. And you are right, the girdle does butt up against the body of the prongs. I don't love the look of a spacer... i quite like a decently sized diamond band next to a plain solitaire. Thanks so much for helping me with this. I really appreciate you pulling images and such for me!!
     
  28. Big Fat Facets
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Big Fat Facets » Jul 25, 2019
    thank you for sharing your 30 pointer lljsmom!! Its a great look without overpowering eachother, to my eyes. I think its perfect with your beautiful prong bezeled (i know there is a term for it but i don't know what it is) 3 carat!
    You definitely overestimate my ability to select round brilliants. I haven't a clue what the ps parameters are. Lots of percentages and angles... Is there a reference on thread on this???? If so, PLEASE do tell.
    Otherwise, I wouldn't have approached cbi/hpd and whiteflash about securing diamonds to expand my five stone ring.
    If i stay with Gemlok they would take care of everything. Like whiteflash, they also do not take outside stones. It was explained to me that the their measurements for stones and bar setting must be extremely precise. Its rare but if they should damage a diamond during the build of the ring and it is their diamond, no problem they'd just replace it BUT if it is an outside diamond, it can become a huge mess and quite a sticky situation. So I completely understand. Im so glad John from cbi/hpd took the time to explain the "flavors" of round brilliant melee cuts.
    Thanks for your help!!
     

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