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5.3ct Sapphire for $1,200?

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Hello,

I'm searching for a sapphire and came across a 5.3ct sapphire. Probably too big for my purpose but still from the pictures it looks pretty nice, although it's never easy to judge with pictures. But none the less the price seems a bit too cheap, what could make the value so little for a 5ct sapphire? What do you guys think? ad_0_1575852760131.jpg ad_2_1575852760136.jpg ad_1_1575852760135.jpg ad_4_1575852760138.jpg ad_3_1575852760137.jpg
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,863
I would not trust them at all. I found this certificate issued by the same group Gemstone Laboratories for a 49.65 ct Natural Alexandrite - as if.
$1,200 would be very cheap for a 5 carat sapphire but it would be $1,200 too much for a fake. 7903DE97-C663-4CD0-A061-816D48473637.jpeg
only buy with reputable lab certificates and be wary, if it looks too good to be true, it isn’t.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
18,748
Ignoring the fact the cert means nothing, that size is very small for the face up size. Now for one - might as well get a 2.5 ct at that size and 2, a big butt sapphire means it has to sit up higher of the finger which is not fun to wear. Clearly cut for weight as despite being sooo deeeep it’s got a window.
what
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,176
A Kashmir sapphire at that price?

Umm no. Who would sell at that price when it’s 5-6 figures at auctions? Pass.
 

Vedi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
3
Unless it is a very reputable vendor, the stone specifications and the price are a red flag - too cheap.

As mentioned above, the certificate might not be worth the paper it is printed on. The company appears to have no online reputation and the website contains very generic information with no contact details.

The pictures are a bit rough, but the symmetry appears to be off in every aspect. Not the quality of cut you would expect to see in such a stone. There is a lot of weight in the pavilion

Too many warning signs. Definitely not worth rolling the dice on this one.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,613
On top of what everybody else has said, I suspect the sapphire is a synthetic that the seller is trying to pass off as the most valuable sapphire type. The price is off by a factor of 100. No way it's the real deal.
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
5,114
Glad to know I am not the only one who thought "no way it could be that cheap" when I read this thread's title!

Besides, the colour is not to my liking, and it has a big window.

Pass!

DK :))
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Thank you all for the replies. And yes I was very much suspecting it was fake or something just wasn't right about it obviously with the price ridiculously low. And I also did notice the cut wasn't good with the big roundish bottom. But also I guess if it's a fake he might get lucky and catch someone that just buys it without looking into it further, which would really suck for the buyer. But if someone would take it to a gemologist they would easily be able to identify it as a fake if it was one right?

Also I had this thought too as another possibility but maybe I'm completely off cause I'm new to stones, but is it possible that it's real and just like others have mentioned it's cut for weight and maybe color also (that's me guessing)...like if it was cut properly it would maybe only be 2ct or something and the color would maybe be very very light and it would not be worth much?
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,863
Treated sapphires and lab grown sapphires look exactly like “real” natural sapphires.
this is why a reputable lab report is essential.
treatments turn poor quality sapphires into something that “looks better”but many treatments aren’t permanent ie colour fades or being on the surfaces it wears off, glass flux filling is unstable and a stone with lots of fissures (how they get the flux in) can break apart if accidentally hit hard.
lab sapphires are the exact same material as natural but are grown in a lab. There is nothing “wrong” with a lab sapphire, they can be beautiful and will wear well BUT they are worth like $1 a carat.
The seller of the sapphire you posted is using a lab report that is shonky. It’s not a reputable source, it can’t be trusted to be true and factual. It’s terrible but people who create fake or treat sapphires also create or use fake lab reports. It’s a con. They are invariably in another country and they prey on tourists or novice buyers online.
if you pay with a credit card or PayPal you might get your money back after you can prove you’ve been conned by spending another $200 or so getting a proper lab report but they work on numbers. Most novice people will not bother to retest.
A proper certified Kashmir sapphire would sell for upwards of $5,000 a carat. A certified unheated sapphire might sell for $1,500 a carat. A heat only sapphire might sell for $800 a carat.
A BE treated (that’s colour improved) or glass flux filled are basically worthless and lab sapphires are just a few dollars a carat.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
Treated sapphires and lab grown sapphires look exactly like “real” natural sapphires.
this is why a reputable lab report is essential.
treatments turn poor quality sapphires into something that “looks better”but many treatments aren’t permanent ie colour fades or being on the surfaces it wears off, glass flux filling is unstable and a stone with lots of fissures (how they get the flux in) can break apart if accidentally hit hard.
lab sapphires are the exact same material as natural but are grown in a lab. There is nothing “wrong” with a lab sapphire, they can be beautiful and will wear well BUT they are worth like $1 a carat.
The seller of the sapphire you posted is using a lab report that is shonky. It’s not a reputable source, it can’t be trusted to be true and factual. It’s terrible but people who create fake or treat sapphires also create or use fake lab reports. It’s a con. They are invariably in another country and they prey on tourists or novice buyers online.
if you pay with a credit card or PayPal you might get your money back after you can prove you’ve been conned by spending another $200 or so getting a proper lab report but they work on numbers. Most novice people will not bother to retest.
A proper certified Kashmir sapphire would sell for upwards of $5,000 a carat. A certified unheated sapphire might sell for $1,500 a carat. A heat only sapphire might sell for $800 a carat.
A BE treated (that’s colour improved) or glass flux filled are basically worthless and lab sapphires are just a few dollars a carat.
Thank you for the detailed write up! I was definitely thinking it was a scam just wasn't sure if it was completely fake or something else. For the lab grown sapphires, I get that they are not worth much but look the same to the naked eye. Under a microscope would a gemologist be able to differentiate between lab grown and natural? Or is that actually not so easy to differentiate?
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,863
Thank you for the detailed write up! I was definitely thinking it was a scam just wasn't sure if it was completely fake or something else. For the lab grown sapphires, I get that they are not worth much but look the same to the naked eye. Under a microscope would a gemologist be able to differentiate between lab grown and natural? Or is that actually not so easy to differentiate?
Generally speaking natural sapphires arent “perfect” under magnification there will be crystal inclusions, rutile silk and often colour zoning. Lab grown tend to be “more perfect”.
lab grown also have an identifiable growth pattern called “curved striae“ and often fine air bubbles.
to the naked eye and even with x10 magnification it is difficult to ID some lab sapphires vs a top quality natural sapphire. there are also other treatments that improve a poor quality sapphire to look better. These require sophisticated testing that only a gem lab has. This is why reputable lab reports are essential.
there is nothing wrong with buying and wearing a lab sapphire, it’s just that you want to be paying the lab sapphire price.
other treatments for sapphires can be problematic over time. Beryillum diffusion imparts a micro thin coating of better colour, but this can fade away or wear off over time. Glass/ flux filling is really bad to the gems structural integrity. What they do is bleach out with acid and heat all the impurities in the gem and then fill those cracks and holes up with colored glass flux. Such gems can literally explode if a jewelers torch is used near them and pickling (an acid jewelers use to clean off worked metal) can cause the gem to fall apart as the pickle solution dissolves away the fake glass flux.
sapphires and rubies are expensive and desirable and some sellers have many tricks and traps to entice you into buying their item when it isn’t as they imply it is.
thats why it is recommended you use a trusted vendor and/or only buy gems with reputable lab certificates.
the bottom line is that good sapphires aren’t cheap.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,863
And when buying an gem check the measurements not just the carat weight.
the 5 carat sapphire you enquired about at 8.6mm diameter “faces up” smaller than most 3 carat sapphires.
these of mine measure 9.1mm and 9.2mm so look bigger than that one, yet they are just on 3 carats each.
and that 5 carat odd sapphire with a depth of 7.1mm will be sitting almost 1 cm off the finger. That is ridiculously high.
 

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T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,112
The lab brief and the website seem sketchy. Did anyone try looking up that stone on their website? I did, but it wouldn’t load.

All those memberships on the back of the brief are suspect too.
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
The lab brief and the website seem sketchy. Did anyone try looking up that stone on their website? I did, but it wouldn’t load.

All those memberships on the back of the brief are suspect too.
I believe I did look it up once and it came up, but I was still just figuring it was all a big scam anyways lol
 

Adamo13

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
49
And when buying an gem check the measurements not just the carat weight.
the 5 carat sapphire you enquired about at 8.6mm diameter “faces up” smaller than most 3 carat sapphires.
these of mine measure 9.1mm and 9.2mm so look bigger than that one, yet they are just on 3 carats each.
and that 5 carat odd sapphire with a depth of 7.1mm will be sitting almost 1 cm off the finger. That is ridiculously high.
Hey yes I actually did notice that made me think that maybe there was the chance that maybe it wasn't completely fake but just cut just for Max weight and color and has many other flaws or treatments that makes it worth very little.
 
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